POSTGAME: Rd 16 vs GWS

[Dee*ceiving 1,046]

We are top 4 from the defensive goal line to 15 metres forward of the centre circle. From there to the goals we are bottom 4...

[Binmans PA 26,481]

8 minutes ago, JimmyGadson said:

Mate, if it was a huge factor, you'd be seeing similar results across all top teams. Which just isn't happening? 

The way you pick and choose what you see to suit this bs narrative is just nauseating. 

And you're at the same time talking Collingwood's form down by suggesting the Suns are fatigued because 'this is what happens to them in the second half of the year'. 

Do you realise how silly that sounds?!? By your loading logic, it should be Collingwood who struggled up there against the Suns. And the Power and Brisbane should also be seeing a dip in performance.. 

You're living in an echo-chamber and finding whatever you want to suit your argument. The head in sand stuff is you! 

Have you watched any of the other games across the past month? Fatigue is clearly a huge factor.

What I continue to say is we're not getting it done. But to suggest there's no link between fatigue and the trend of our scores below is nonsense.

R1 - 17.13

R2 - 13.4

R3 - 21.8

R4 - 19.12

R5 - 11.11

R6 - 15.6

R7 - 22.7

R8 - 13.12

R9 - 15.13

R10 - 11.10

R11 - 10.12

R12 - 8.13

R13 - 8.18

R14 - Bye

R15 - 8.15

R16 - 5.15

It is so marked that it's clearly having a big impact on us. If you don't see a correlation between Rounds 11-16, I can't help you.

Maybe fatigue is not having an impact to the same extent on other teams, but look at the Sydney game on Friday night or the Port game on Saturday, or the Collingwood vs Adelaide game last weekend. Fatigue is a huge factor in the general fall in kicking standards across the league.

Edited July 3, 2023 by A F

[TRIGON 4,719]

33 minutes ago, DistrACTION Jackson said:

We have now lost 4 games in the wet and one of the issues is we have a lot of below average skilled players and these guys are found out in bad conditions.

ANB, Langdon, Hunter, Trac, Viney (loved his game but still terrible skills), Pickett (he is highly skilled but wtf was that).

I am so frustrated watching this side, it is just the worst gamestyle to watch.

Sad but true. 

[Dee Zephyr 17,990]

The game felt like my younger days on the nightclub scene. Spend two hours working up the courage to chat to a pretty lady in the corner and as soon as you take a couple of steps in her direction bang, some dude in a really tight T-shirt starts with the Travolta moves next to her.

Edited July 3, 2023 by Dee Zephyr

[Mel Bourne 3,871]

10 hours ago, Fromgotowoewodin said:

Lot of Kozzie sledging on here, just be aware:

22 goals, behind only Fritsch (29)

Ave 5.9 score involvements, behind only Trac & Clarry

12 goal assists, behind only Trac (20)

22 marks i50, behind only Fritsch (30)

4.5 ave tackles, behind only Viney (5.8), Clarry (5.6), ANB (5). He’s outright first for tackles i50.

He flies for some marks he shouldn’t, takes shots at goal he could pass, sometimes sprays some kicks but he ain’t the problem and anyone who thinks he’s going anywhere near Casey is kidding themselves. 

Sorry, are we supposed to be impressed by these stats? 

He may be holding his spot in this side, but compare him to the league and not his also-struggling team members, and you get a much more accurate depiction of where he’s at. 

No, he won’t get dropped. Simply not an option. But if you’re trying to make the case that we should be impressed with his recent form, you’ll understand if I politely tell you to make it somewhere else. 

Edited July 3, 2023 by Mel Bourne

[chook fowler 18,392]

Hunter is so frustrating - great work rate and accumulates a lot of possessions but more often than not turns it over.

[Fromgotowoewodin 936]

Is it loading or heavy training? I don’t know, I don’t know what they’re doing during the week so may be really punishing themselves to build for finals but I haven’t seen any indication of that on the socials. 
 

The only definitive answer will come if we come out of it and start running on top of the ground come finals.

What I will say is I had a lot of theories last year, loading, maybe we weren’t playing our best 22, or had a different forward line plan that we were keeping under wraps for the finals or we’re just cruising to stay fresh for finals and when the whips were cracking we’d come good.
 

Final round we [censored] the lions and I started to think “hello, here we go!”, then we play 2 finals looking like we were absolutely cooked and the season was done - turns out I’d been huffing copium. Is that the case this year? Maybe not but I’m not going all in on hope until I see us play in a final and play well

[TRIGON 4,719]

Fatigue certainly is a factor...I'm tired of watching us kick points.

[layzie 29,734]

13 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

I also think our defence is outstanding.  Not sure yesterday was one of their better performances.

I doubt there will be many positional changes as this is the time we and other clubs bed down the best 22.  Having said that Fritsch's absence will force some sort of forward group rethink.

Probably not, the second Greene goal was sloppy but I'll take that performance and they did their part to give us the best chance to win. Need the other end to help out. 

 

[loges 6,233]

11 hours ago, DubDee said:

what nonsense 

they need to try something different in the fwd line?  we have literally changed the mix every 2 weeks. if anything we need some consistency in selection up there. 

and Trac would be playing 40% fwd if we could afford him too. and spraying those shots all over the place. 

wtf

It's not the personel it's the method.

[Lucifers Hero 37,323]

I wasn't exonerating the mids and fwds nor blaming the defenders for the loss.  Simply reflecting on a key moment of which there were many.

 

Might just leave this response to an earlier post and check out of DL again for a few days:

2 hours ago, Lucifers Hero said:

I don't really wish to start a blaming game.  My comment on lack of on field leadership wasn't intended to blame anyone but imv a fair observation of what happened:  our system broke down

Edited July 3, 2023 by Lucifers Hero

[Fritta and Turner 3,826]

13 minutes ago, chook fowler said:

Hunter is so frustrating - great work rate and accumulates a lot of possessions but more often than not turns it over.

Hunter plays for Hunter

[JimmyGadson 3,455]

29 minutes ago, A F said:

Have you watched any of the other games across the past month? Fatigue is clearly a huge factor.

What I continue to say is we're not getting it done. But to suggest there's no link between fatigue and the trend of our scores below is nonsense.

R1 - 17.13

R2 - 13.4

R3 - 21.8

R4 - 19.12

R5 - 11.11

R6 - 15.6

R7 - 22.7

R8 - 13.12

R9 - 15.13

R10 - 11.10

R11 - 10.12

R12 - 8.13

R13 - 8.18

R14 - Bye

R15 - 8.15

R16 - 5.15

It is so marked that it's clearly having a big impact on us. If you don't see a correlation between Rounds 11-16, I can't help you.

Maybe fatigue is not having an impact to the same extent on other teams, but look at the Sydney game on Friday night or the Port game on Saturday, or the Collingwood vs Adelaide game last weekend. Fatigue is a huge factor in the general fall in kicking standards across the league.

I'm sorry but it's just a nonsense. 

The psychology of 'trying to hard' when you're losing and getting desperate and the Melbourne 'red myst' thing that we revert to is much more relevant to our inaccuracy. Not fatigue. 

The fatigue argument just doesn't fly. You can't be winning almost every stat line against opponents but losing games and putting that down to mainly fatigue. A fatigued side is not dominating stat lines. 

There are 10 things I'd list as problems before bringing fatigue into the conversation. 

We have been losing the same way for over a year. Longer even. If you actually averted your attention, you'd see the problem areas that most see. And you'd realise that fatigue is always present in varying degrees across seasons. And it simply doesn't need the kind of microscopic looking over that you continue to give it. 

This is a game plan, list and personnel issue. It is as simple as that. 

 

Edited July 3, 2023 by JimmyGadson

[Bombay Airconditioning 5,977]

If fatigue was a factor surely it applies to both sides? But watching yesterdays game I’m not sure how anyone can think we’re physically fatigued. 

[Demon Disciple 11,132]

1 hour ago, layzie said:

I'm pretty close to Harry Trott Oval, will go down and watch Collegians play in the ammos in a couple of week. Jared Rivers is the coach so happy to give him my support!

Been so long since I went to a country footy game, I did actually go to a Fish Creek v Foster game years ago believe it or not! Good times. 

Collegians are top of the Prem A ladder atm (Wesley OB).

The Fish Creek - Foster rivalry is something else!!! Pure hatred on both sides (so ingrained that my old man refused to move anywhere with a 3960 postcode 😁).

[titan_uranus 22,749]

1 hour ago, A F said:

Re read the first few pages mate. It's sack the coach, x player can't execute a 15m pass, Kozzy is hopeless (he played 93% TOG - he was exhausted) etc etc and then TU, who I really rate as a poster says "It’s not loading, it’s not personnel (albeit we’re missing two of our 5 best players), it’s some combination of coaching and skill.".

Well, I'd disagree that fatigue is not a huge factor in why our accuracy has plummeted in the last 5 games. I'd say it's a combination of everything, but if you disregard fatigue in the picture and say loading is not a factor, you're sticking your head in the sand IMO. And I'm not saying you're doing that @Lucifers Hero, but there's some real knee jerk reactions on here, that I get to an extent, we were horrible yesterday, but let's look at the whole picture. 

Don’t lump me in with others who perhaps approach the topic with “shallow” analysis. I’ve done my best to post my views in detail and with reference to the same material that is used to argue we must necessarily have engaged in a heavy loading phase over the last few weeks.

It feels to me as though you are reasoning backwards. Your subsequent post to this one takes our last 5 scores and says “look at these low scores, that clearly shows we are fatigued”. There’s a link missing in between.

As I’ve said before, I fully accept that we carefully structure our training loads week to week. What I don’t presently accept is that we’ve engaged in a loading block to such an extent that it significantly explains our poor performances of late. 

In your view, is it consistent with loading/fatigue as a significant factor that we dominated time in possession, CPs, clearances, time in forward half, forward half turnovers, and scoring shots?

When I said “it’s not loading”, I meant it. Our biggest issue right now isn’t loading. It’s how we choose to structure and play. 

[markT 21]

16 hours ago, dees189227 said:

What did Joel Smith do today?

Zip. What has Chandler done for the last 5 games. Last goal was round 10. How many more chances is Goodwin gonna give him b4 swinging the axe.  Jordan or Spargo would have been a far better option than him.

Forget all the excuses re loading etc. Facts are, our forward line is seriously broken and is letting down our hard working backs and mids who are as good as any in the competition IMHO. 73 inside 50's for 5 measley goals.  You gotta be kiddding. 

Fix it for FFS.

[IRW 1,270]

1 minute ago, titan_uranus said:

Don’t lump me in with others who perhaps approach the topic with “shallow” analysis. I’ve done my best to post my views in detail and with reference to the same material that is used to argue we must necessarily have engaged in a heavy loading phase over the last few weeks.

It feels to me as though you are reasoning backwards. Your subsequent post to this one takes our last 5 scores and says “look at these low scores, that clearly shows we are fatigued”. There’s a link missing in between.

As I’ve said before, I fully accept that we carefully structure our training loads week to week. What I don’t presently accept is that we’ve engaged in a loading block to such an extent that it significantly explains our poor performances of late. 

In your view, is it consistent with loading/fatigue as a significant factor that we dominated time in possession, CPs, clearances, time in forward half, forward half turnovers, and scoring shots?

When I said “it’s not loading”, I meant it. Our biggest issue right now isn’t loading. It’s how we choose to structure and play. 

Someone is still saying it's " loading" ?

Seriously?

Still I guess it's still school holidays isn't it

Do fans say that on other teams pages?

I suppose it would explain the Eagles (lol) but probably not those two inexplicable losses by the Pies .

More relevant would be whether the players have the competitive maturity to match last minute or post siren goals from the 50, in the rain ,to fight out a game like the Bombers and Port.

I suspect the only demon who might do that would be Spargo..except it would have to be from 35  out!

Or maybe 40  given that he's put 5 metres on his range because he's a pro with fewer natural skills than the demon so called " elite"

[jnrmac 19,314]

57 minutes ago, A F said:

Have you watched any of the other games across the past month? Fatigue is clearly a huge factor.

It is so marked that it's clearly having a big impact on us. If you don't see a correlation between Rounds 11-16, I can't help you.

Maybe fatigue is not having an impact to the same extent on other teams, but look at the Sydney game on Friday night or the Port game on Saturday, or the Collingwood vs Adelaide game last weekend. Fatigue is a huge factor in the general fall in kicking standards across the league.

If you cant see a connection issue, our utterly clueless fwd set ups and  a return to down. the line bomb it to the fwd pocket then I can't help you.

[binman 39,082]

5 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

If fatigue was a factor surely it applies to both sides? But watching yesterdays game I’m not sure how anyone can think we’re physically fatigued. 

Fatigue is a moot point I reckon. 

And to he honest so is the connection and forward issues palaver.

Though it didn't help having three super talls in Brown, Grundy and gawn in such horrendous conditions. Or losing our best kick for goal early for that matter.

We didn't lose because of fatigue or game plan, structure, set up,  etc etc.

We lost that game away with our woeful kicking for goals. Again.

It really is a simple as that.

We dominated that game, and should have won it easliy.

We smashed them in every key stat, including shots for goal.

Twenty shots at goal in those conditions is fine. Particularly when the opposition could only manage 12.

The expected score of 77 -43 tells the tale.

A five goal win turned into a loss because we miss shots on goal we should make. 

Bottom line, we have too many poor kicks. Wet weather exacerbates that huge issue.

The winning goal by kelly was the perfect example of how good technique stands up under pressure and in terrible conditions.

And our ball handling skills are also a big worry, again exacerbated by wet weather. Even tracc fumbles way too often. 

 

[JimmyGadson 3,455]

46 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Don’t lump me in with others who perhaps approach the topic with “shallow” analysis. I’ve done my best to post my views in detail and with reference to the same material that is used to argue we must necessarily have engaged in a heavy loading phase over the last few weeks.

It feels to me as though you are reasoning backwards. Your subsequent post to this one takes our last 5 scores and says “look at these low scores, that clearly shows we are fatigued”. There’s a link missing in between.

As I’ve said before, I fully accept that we carefully structure our training loads week to week. What I don’t presently accept is that we’ve engaged in a loading block to such an extent that it significantly explains our poor performances of late. 

In your view, is it consistent with loading/fatigue as a significant factor that we dominated time in possession, CPs, clearances, time in forward half, forward half turnovers, and scoring shots?

When I said “it’s not loading”, I meant it. Our biggest issue right now isn’t loading. It’s how we choose to structure and play. 

Pin this post. 

@binmanand @A F, thoughts?

 

How is it that we can be winning and dominating so many stat-lines during games, but ultimately losing the match due to our inefficiency, connection and accuracy, and this being mainly due to fatigue because of loading? 

How can it possibly be so? 

The players simply don't show fatigue when it comes to winning contested possession or the inside 50 count or clearance? How can fatigue only be relevant when it comes to our inaccuracy? 

It makes no sense whatsoever. 

Edited July 3, 2023 by JimmyGadson

[binman 39,082]

7 minutes ago, JimmyGadson said:

Pin this post. 

@binmanand @A F, thoughts?

 

How is it that we can be winning and dominating so many stat-lines during games, but ultimately losing the match due to our inefficiency, connection and accuracy, and this being mainly due to fatigue because of loading? 

How can it possibly be so? 

The players simply don't show fatigue when it comes to winning contested possession or the inside 50 count or clearance? How can fatigue only be relevant when it comes to our inaccuracy? 

It literally makes not a bit of sense. 

See post above jimmy.

[Fromgotowoewodin 936]

49 minutes ago, Mel Bourne said:

Sorry, are we supposed to be impressed by these stats? 

He may be holding his spot in this side, but compare him to the league and not his also-struggling team members, and you get a much more accurate depiction of where he’s at. 

No, he won’t get dropped. Simply not an option. But if you’re trying to make the case that we should be impressed with his recent form, you’ll understand if I politely tell you to make it somewhere else. 

I’m not overly impressed with any of them at the moment. I’m telling you he’s doing his job and the problems lie elsewhere. 
 

Let’s have a look where he sits in the league:

22 goals has him =31st overall for goal kicking, behind the following small forwards: Charlie Cameron (37), Rankine (30), Breust (28), Higgins (27), Papley (25), Walters (25). Walters has played same games as Kozzie (13), Bruest 1 more and the others 2 more. 

5.9 avg score involvements has him 52nd overall, 31st for forwards. Behind Rankine (7.0), Miers (6.93), Bolton (6.33), Rachele (6.13), Higgins & Papley (6.0). Ahead of C Cameron, Weightman, Rayner.

Tackles i50, his 29 is 2nd overall behind Shultz (31 in 2 more games)

Small forward output is a function of effort and opportunities, his effort is there, opportunities are limited by the lack of space to work in. 

[DeeMee 749]

When is the AFL going to get with the times and determine wins based on expected scores. We’d be unstoppable.

[DistrACTION Jackson 6,556]

I do have to question the decision making of our overall selection panel when we have a generational key forward and we choose a journeyman over him.

I don't want to see JVR out of this side ever again unless he is injured or needs an actual rest, not to go and play in a wet game down at Casey.