POSTGAME: Rd 15 vs Geelong

[JimmyGadson 3,455]

The way we play the majority of the time fails to excite, which imo contributes to our supporters either not wanting to rock up and/or doesn't give our supporters much to cheer about. 

Kosi is about the only excitable player on our list but he's been a shadow of himself for the best part of a month. 

We have nobody else that excites. Not even Trac. Forward of centre, he's about as reliable as a chocolate teapot when it comes to kicking goals in general play and set-shots. 

Against better sides, our inability to kick goals from great opportunities and looks forward has been atrocious for two years. Two years. Even in the wet last night, we had so many opportunities going forward that we just waste. 

When will we actually address this? They talk about method and that the club have worked on that over summer. But it's clear to me it's a personnel thing more than anything. Miskicks, kicks straight up in the air, kicks to the advantage of a defender. It all comes down to the individual and we are stocked full of players who consistently display poor ball use. It doesn't change.. 

One quick fix for the rest of the year imo is to move Salem to a half forward/centre forward mid role. Take out one of Sparrow, Jordan or even ANB. Give Spargs ANB's role for a few weeks and sacrifice a bit of that run with a ball use. 

One of Bowey or Salem need to play forward centre. We just cannot hit targets going inside 50 and let me tell you, they are there. Always. 

I'm just completely vanilla mids in Jordan and Sparrow. We need other types in there. 

And we are desperate for a mature aged key position forward who knows where to lead, when to leave space and can contest hard. 

 

Edited June 23, 2023 by JimmyGadson

[Demon Dynasty 17,130]

1 hour ago, Macca said:

The unanswered question is why Kozzie isn't being used in the middle for that x-factor or to just change things up.  Get him into the play to get his numbers up I say.  Just hands on the ball with a receive-and-go would help

Would have him coming in off the square Macca.  He's a much better prospect on the move and if he gets on the end of some chains he'd be very handy with delivery with that last kick inside where we are devoid of talent bar the odd cameo from Viney of late.

Mostly lost at CBs and rarely got on the end of things when he was played here earlier this season.

Edited June 23, 2023 by Demon Dynasty

[DeeZone 10,401]

1 hour ago, layzie said:

Yeah but you don't need agility to run in a straight line 

No one was going to catch Rohan.!!

[beelzebub 23,390]

2 minutes ago, DeeZone said:

No one was going to catch Rohan.!!

You dont catch Rohan... you either deny him or get in his way.

Wasn't our forte

Edited June 23, 2023 by beelzebub

[BDA 23,016]

Just watched the game (was indisposed last night). Was able to check the scores from halftime and was sure we would get it done at ¾ time.

Dropped a game we should have won. Frustrating as hell but we’ll win enough games to finish top 4. From there, I don’t know.

Forward line is dysfunctional and has been for a while. I think we need BB to win a flag. I hope he has the legs for one last dance. Petty has to go forward and hopefully can do a job for us but he won’t be a saviour.  We have got to find a KPF during trade period. An absolute must.

The pies win gave me hope. We have a good draw to September so have the opportunity to get on a roll. I just pray that BB can get fit and fire for us one last time.

Go Dees

[layzie 34,336]

6 minutes ago, DeeZone said:

No one was going to catch Rohan.!!

I know but it was more the way May was running, looked completely gassed. As did most of our guys

[Macca 17,113]

Fair enough @Demon Dynasty

Often feel that permanent forwards need to get their hands on the ball early just to get them into the swing of things

Especially the KPF's but the small forwards can go cold if they aren't getting opportunities

By the way, the game had 142 clangers last night.  A game riddled with errors & mistakes

As previously stated, if we were to highlight all the mistakes made by all the players in great detail (instead of just highlighting the errors made by one particular player) the thread would go on forever

Edited June 23, 2023 by Macca

[JimmyGadson 3,455]

1 hour ago, layzie said:

Yeah but you don't need agility to run in a straight line 

Agree. That one-on-one vs Rohan was a poor effort from May. 

He was there at the contest and decided to try and body Rohan rather than contest the ball. I think I'm going to make a compilation of all the errors we made that were unforgivable. 

Another player who is having a down year and looks lost and fumbly when the ball hits the deck. 

Edited June 23, 2023 by JimmyGadson

[DeeZone 10,401]

37 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

You’re such a drama queen. Other coaches can have all the strategies they like. Fact is our best is the best. Run Oliver and Petty back into touch and look out

Also get Bowey, Brown and Tomlinson back on the side as well.!!

[JimmyGadson 3,455]

2 minutes ago, Macca said:

Fair enough @Demon Dynasty

Often feel that permanent forwards need to get their hands on the ball early just to get them into the swing of things

Especially the KPF's but the small forwards can go cold if they aren't getting opportunities

By the way, the game had 142 clangers last night.  A game riddled with errors & mistakes

As previously stated, if we were to highlight all the mistakes made by all the players in great detail (instead of just highlighting tge errors made by one particular player) the thread would go on forever

There are errors and then Errors. 

We have a habit of fluffing the unfluffable. Which ultimately costs us games. Both offensively and defensively. 

 

 

[The heart beats true 18,183]

1 hour ago, beelzebub said:

An aberration both ways i think.

Every other coach will have their strategists watching our game ( last night )

 

Now our win over a Collingwood is an aberration?

Your negativity is off the charts today.

[beelzebub 23,390]

2 minutes ago, The heart beats true said:

Now our win over a Collingwood is an aberration?

Your negativity is off the charts today.

Dont confuse negativity with reality.

Maybe we can revisit this at seasons end and see how we've really travelled. 

Dont think for a moment i dont want to win. But i dont confuse our ability to do that.

 

[rpfc 28,906]

We won Kings Birthday because of our defence and our press. We are a defensive first team. But being unable to score more than 70 points is unsustainable in the long run - pressure lifts, mistakes are made, talent breaks through.

So we need to find some structure and trust with how we bring the ball into the forwards and how they navigate space or we make it so difficult for ourselves. 

Long term - Lamb needs to get us a number 1 forward next to JVR and we need some new ideas to take control of our forward line and our ball movement into the forward half. Territory isn’t enough anymore. 

[Macca 17,113]

10 minutes ago, JimmyGadson said:

There are errors and then Errors. 

We have a habit of fluffing the unfluffable. Which ultimately costs us games. Both offensively and defensively.

Yes and you mentioned that you were going to compile a list of unforgivable errors

Do that but you might get questioned about your criteria

For me a forward trailing his defender to the ball is a huge error ... but are those types of errors recorded?  Probably not

Another is a player calling for the ball and then making a half-assed effort if the kick to him isn't lace out.  Soft

Players not making a contest when they are out of the marking dual?  I see that happen all the time

Smith missing from 10 metres out at the start of the game was unforgivable ... just turn at the goals and kick it over the goal umpires head for pete's sake (whilst taking contact)

Instead of that he tries some unrealistic elaborate hook kick that missed. A Coach killer

[YesitwasaWin4theAges 6,766]

I was upset last night with the loss but the wave of negativity is out of control.

Do tend to agree it's beyond a joke how much we get drawn to play down their at Inbred park.

[jnrmac 20,276]

10 hours ago, demon3165 said:

They have no clue how to play on quickly Gus had the pill Rivers was free Gus took to long to pass it got intercepted, players are lead way to early for the kicker to move back and pass it, players still playing 21 game plan, forward line never moves around to open up a lead, players all flying in packs, and the classic kicking it to Kossie who's a small player way above his head against his opposition player who's about 8 inches taller gee that worked well.

The major problem is the forward line an example is in the last quarter the cats players made their forward players run to where they were kicking it to them on a lead we just bring our opponent along with them, JVR needs to learn forward craft "I would get him to talk to Nick Riewoldt on how he played and his thinking" he is not a pack mark player yet, another year doing the same thing to many player playing a defensive role, time to flick the switch.

 

They train that way all summer. Why TF don't they play that way?  They played that way in the practice games...

Goodwin would prefer to keep teams to low scores than break away by big margins

[titan_uranus 25,174]

1 hour ago, beelzebub said:

Dont confuse negativity with reality.

Maybe we can revisit this at seasons end and see how we've really travelled. 

Dont think for a moment i dont want to win. But i dont confuse our ability to do that.

 

You can’t keep calling your negativity “reality”. They are not the same thing. 

You are inherently pessimistic. For as long as I recall you posting on here, you have been. That doesn’t mean the “reality” is as dire as you perceive it. 

Your proposal to wait to season’s end is a classic pessimist’s ultimatum. 17 of the 18 clubs won’t win the flag. The odds are always in favour of the pessimists. It’s easy to say we won’t win it because that’s the likely outcome. And of course, if we do, no one will care that you’ve been OTT negative all year. 

[monoccular 17,642]

2 hours ago, rpfc said:

We won Kings Birthday because of our defence and our press. We are a defensive first team. But being unable to score more than 70 points is unsustainable in the long run - pressure lifts, mistakes are made, talent breaks through.

So we need to find some structure and trust with how we bring the ball into the forwards and how they navigate space or we make it so difficult for ourselves. 

Long term - Lamb needs to get us a number 1 forward next to JVR and we need some new ideas to take control of our forward line and our ball movement into the forward half. Territory isn’t enough anymore. 

Do our forwards not lead towards space because they know that leads will not be honoured, or that the kicker lacks the skills and poise to deliver to a lead?  

Alternatively are they just lazy, or poorly coached / drilled?  

At present they all seem to congregate together and fly for the big bomb.  

If even one, not necessarily the biggest, broke for a lead surely a defender would have to follow him or block him, lessening the congestion even if the long bomb was eventually used.  Or maybe all opponents have worked out our 'plan' and join the pack under the. bomb. 

Edited June 23, 2023 by monoccular

[JimmyGadson 3,455]

3 hours ago, Macca said:

Yes and you mentioned that you were going to compile a list of unforgivable errors

Do that but you might get questioned about your criteria

For me a forward trailing his defender to the ball is a huge error ... but are those types of errors recorded?  Probably not

Another is a player calling for the ball and then making a half-assed effort if the kick to him isn't lace out.  Soft

Players not making a contest when they are out of the marking dual?  I see that happen all the time

Smith missing from 10 metres out at the start of the game was unforgivable ... just turn at the goals and kick it over the goal umpires head for pete's sake (whilst taking contact)

Instead of that he tries some unrealistic elaborate hook kick that missed. A Coach killer

Yeh. There's a lot there. 

But I will give you a simple one. 

If a Melb player has the ball, in space and under no pressure and the kick results in a direct turnover, that's a serious error . And it's an unforgivable one if it happens in our defensive half of the ground or when we're going inside 50 and have players open. 

And we are soooooo good at executing these types of errors. 

Everyone can forgive a certain number of miskicks, fumbles, miss-handballs etc throughout general play and especially through the middle of the ground. And under pressure and heat, errors like these are part of football clearly so I'm not talking about those clearly. 

Sometimes I wonder if dropping a player would actually wake them up. Like, sometimes I watch Gus Brayshaw with ball in hand under no pressure and wonder what the [censored] he is doing. 

There should be a price paid for unforgivable errors that continue to happen. Players who continue to execute them need to be dropped. Just as they would if their 'effort' wasn't there.

The polarising thing is that decision making and executing under no pressure is effort. It's about [censored] concentrating, kicking with intent and having a will to want to make sure you hit that open target. And if you don't, go and [censored] practice it at training. 

Either that, or drop some players until they realise that when you have the ball in open space, you need to protect it. And that the same premium should be placed on having care for your disposals as it is with defensive running or bringing the ball to ground or scrapping in a contest. 

I never hear Goody say, "Geez our fundamentals were off tonight and we just let them back in the game". 

Other coaches say it all the timeeeee. And every ex-footballer in the media knows how poor we are with ball in hand. Dunstal bangs on about it all the time.

Im sick to death of it. 

[YesitwasaWin4theAges 6,766]

I truely believe that our F50 entries are a by-product of the fact that the game plan the coaches want the players to follow is deep entries to not allow shallow F50 turnovers from leading forwards.

Thus preventing quick rebounding transtion opportunities as our delivery isn't as precise as other teams delivery Inside 50.

The better teams seem to exploit our tall marking backline if they are exposed to pace on quick transition shifts to their forwards outlets on more occasions i.e Collingwood, Port and Geelong last night.

These beliefs indicate that the brains trust believe we are better off creating stoppages from getting the ball to ground as we are not designed to dominate team in marking inside F50.

Edited June 23, 2023 by YesitwasaWin4theAges

[ElDiablo14 5,036]

10 hours ago, beelzebub said:

Those that haven't read George's match report.... should do so.

Always provides a correct and clear  impression of what transpired.

Three words come to mind:

Lacklustre,  Inept and Wasteful.

We're still very Jeckle and Hyde

You can't be this way and play finals with any prospect let alone winning the big one.

But hey.... we're learning...   Yes learning a lot about those learning.   They're not that flash at learning.

 

Why, for the most part, has this team behaved like Jeckle/Hyde under Goodwin?

Surely we can't always blame the loading. Sometimes it's also about the psychological/mental fortitude of the team, specially its leaders on the field, to steady the ship during those critical stages of any given game. That last quarter capitulation was awful to watch.

[Kent 2,918]

9 hours ago, JimmyGadson said:

Agree. That one-on-one vs Rohan was a poor effort from May. 

He was there at the contest and decided to try and body Rohan rather than contest the ball. I think I'm going to make a compilation of all the errors we made that were unforgivable. 

Another player who is having a down year and looks lost and fumbly when the ball hits the deck. 

should have jumped on the ball 

May looks suss sometimes in pressure situations and panics

Looked very poor to me

[rpfc 28,906]

7 hours ago, monoccular said:

Do our forwards not lead towards space because they know that leads will not be honoured, or that the kicker lacks the skills and poise to deliver to a lead?  

Alternatively are they just lazy, or poorly coached / drilled?  

At present they all seem to congregate together and fly for the big bomb.  

If even one, not necessarily the biggest, broke for a lead surely a defender would have to follow him or block him, lessening the congestion even if the long bomb was eventually used.  Or maybe all opponents have worked out our 'plan' and join the pack under the. bomb. 

It’s learned behaviour. And it’s why I worry for JVR’s development; if you don’t expect the extra handball in board to then get a deeper entry, or you don’t expect the lowering of eyes to hit up someone 60 out then you go where you think the ball will be. And then that’s where the ball will inevitably go. The odd occasion we give an extra hand and take the extra half second to hit up a lead may end in failure which reinforces the ‘bomb it forward’ mentality. 

It’s harder to see forward craft ahead of the ball on TV but when I was down for Freo, Carl, and Coll games - I was left worried about JVRs leading habits and the role he was asked to play. He’s a kid and has time but it is simply unfair to him and to our window to not get him and Fritsch a number 1 tall forward that pushes them into more comfortable roles.

[leave it to deever 17,591]

This opinion might be way off but would it have been a good thing for the non competing ruck to have spent all their time forward. Given the way the ball was going in there and that we were down on marks inside 50 . Why do we have them both of not for switching things up? Also, of I were Tommo I would find it very hard to motivate myself to play well. Lucky he's the consulate professional and won't let this affect him. It's not the first time. Just watched the KB game again and the bloke was fantastic. I hope Goody goes back to his experiment of Petty up forward because , while I think Smith is an improvement and should stay, and that Fritta is a medium, Roo has 11 games in him, we need someone else. I'm not the only one who thinks we can play Smith, Fritta, Jvr and Petty together. We are top heavy with smalls that aren't performing too. Spargo just makes way for Petty while Kozzie and Chandler can crumb. Although the latter seems to be out of form. It seems that Tmacs season is over and while I'd love to see Bbb back, I have no idea what has happened to the bloke since his first two really good games. Is it injury, form or has he fallen out of favor? What I do know, is that our forward line is better with Smith but there is plenty of room for improvement. I do think that with our smaller and mobile fwd line we are better suited playing at the G than grounds like Kardinia 

[waynewussell 6,901]

I can’t take it any longer! I watched the game from Missouri at 4:20am. I had to sign in now to register a few observations.

It was wet and slippery! I could see that from Missouri! Talk of dropped chest marks and fumbles as evidence that a certain player is having a bad year or deserving of a public thrashing is malarkey.

We were in control for the majority of the first three quarters. We played poorly for 15 minutes in the last and paid the price!

The disrespect for Kossie by some tossers is d as ds! He continues to kick goals in amazing ways, 2 out of 8 goals in an arm wrestle is worthy of high praise alone.

ANB’s fumble was a sliding door moment, no doubt, but if you look closely you will see he was important in other transitions that created scoring shots.

Chandler gave up a goal that may have won the game. The upside is, he was so close on at least two other occasions.

Max was not the match winner we wanted him to be, he had a few clanger moments, but to suggest he was useless on the night is ridiculous! He was a contributor.

May played his role well. Another one who repeatedly gets tossed into the ‘having a bad year’ basket. He had 1 ordinary game several rounds back. The rest has been worthy of an AA key defender.

The Fritsch tackle was holding the ball. The umpires interpretation was a clear example of Administration knee jerk corrupting the game. It was Fritsch who managed to hit his head on the ground after catching a Cat red handed!

Analysis I agree with…

Spargo was not a good choice as sub

Jordan should have remained

Petty was short of a run

Smith needs to find a few more ways to contribute as a forward (his two goals were golden on the night).