On 13/06/2023 at 00:34, Demonland said:

How was it not a push in the back to Viney at the end there when 30 seconds before it was a push in the back on Adams.

 

The missed Viney free kick was horrible, but his presence of mind to stay in the game and clear the ball forward was so inspiring. Sometimes he does things that just make you realise his will power is extraordinary.

  On 12/06/2023 at 23:20, DeeSpencer said:

Salem is borderline but not quite, lacks penetration for a half back. 20-30m out of congestion he’s amazing but he’s not a weapon.

Fritsch is very close, I’d say an elite kick for goal but I don’t want to curse him in to another slump.

Did you see Hunter’s first 2 shocking kicks yesterday? Or him struggle any time he has to kick more than 30? He’s barely an average kick these days.

Bowey and McVee, nope, not yet. 

I have vowed not to get into back and forth on DL this season. And resist the urge to repeat the same thing over and over. Resist the urge to rebut is my self talk.

But I have felt my will break in the last few weeks.  

So, i'll make one more post on this topic and leave it.

There is actually a statistical measure of what is considered elite kicks. I can't be bothered looking it up, but i'll bet London to a brick that Salem, Fritter, Hunter, Bowey and Mcvee are all rated elite for disposal efficiency.

Leaving that aside, your definition of an elite kick is informed by the list of players you consider to be elite:

Rich, Tom Stewart, Darcy Moore, N Daicos, Hayden Young, Sicily, Bailey Dale, Jake Lloyd, Jayden Short, Tuohy, Bont, Jordan Dawson, J Daicos, Z Merrett, Pendles, Sidebottom, JHF, Jezza, Hawkins (field kicking), Tex, Gryan and Larkey.

By the by, i don't disagree with any of those players being elite kicks, but i honestly can't see how if you think those players are elite you could seriously argue that none of Salem, Fritter, Hunter, Bowey and Mcvee are elite kicks. 

By way of comparison, few would argue Nick Daicos would be close to the best kick in the AFL.

Daicos has a career average DE of 77% - a figure that is padded by the fact he takes most kick outs and gets tonnes of cheapies down back. 

Here is the career average of the five elite kicks in our team (and please, don't worry about potting DE as a measure of kicking skills - it is the only objective stat out there and it would be disingenuous to argue it is not at least a pretty good guide). Bolded indicates a better DE than Daicos:

• Bowey (who plays a very comparable role to daicos) 79.5%
• McVee  77.3%
• Salem  74.9%
• Hunter  73.8%
• Fritter 69.3%

Anyway, i disagree with your assessment and you disagree with mine.

That is not going to change, so let's draw a line under it here.

(note to self here: don't react to the completely whacko assessment of Hunter's kicking skills - wow he turned it over twice, barely an average kick? Ye gads that is nutso - quiet bin, calm down, you don't have to convince everyone you're right, relax, go to your happy place - bang, bang, bang)

 

Edited June 13, 20231 yr by binman

  On 13/06/2023 at 00:51, The heart beats true said:

The missed Viney free kick was horrible, but his presence of mind to stay in the game and clear the ball forward was so inspiring. Sometimes he does things that just make you realise his will power is extraordinary.

Best game of the year. 11 tackles fgs.

Even better. ....His speech about Neale rather than himself on winning the medal.

It goes against decades of conditioning against finding anything positive about Collingwood … but credit where due, McRae is pretty damned impressive.

Edited June 13, 20231 yr by DeeMee

  On 12/06/2023 at 12:57, Little Goffy said:

Somebody buy this man an ornithopter.

Get the Curly Whorly on standby.

  On 12/06/2023 at 23:45, Dr. Gonzo said:

Kossie needs to lift but similar to last week against Saad I feel he was playing a more defensive forward role on Noble who often drives the Pies off half back. Don't forget Kossie is (or was before this weekend) #1 in the comp for tackles inside 50 so he's still doing some things right. Just has to get the mistined speccies out of his game and nail his set shots, if he kicks the 2 regulation ones yesterday I think people are seeing his game a bit differently.

Sure, but I’m seeing his game yesterday and most of his games this season for what they’ve been, not what they could have been. 

Like everybody here, I love watching the kid play when he’s on, and want nothing more than for him to progress as a player, but I think he’s still lacking some basic small-forward craft (specifically where he positions himself). His pressure is usually impressive for sure, as is his inside-50 tackle count. But if I wanted to be cynical for a second, that stat suggests to me that he is the hunter more often than he should be the prey. 

Well i got banned on Big Footy easy enough to do.

By the looks of things the Filth didn't like the taste of their own medicine.

Shoutout to the supporters at the game yesterday, we went toe to toe with the pies on the noise levels... Made a huge difference imo.

Special mention to Tommo and Joel Smith, both played their role superbly.

Salem... Seriously missed this guy. A complete match winner.

McVee, fast becoming one of my favorite players. Never looks flustered, even in front of 83k roaring fans. Balanced, poised, skillful. So happy with him.

  On 12/06/2023 at 14:49, A F said:

I wasn't sure where to put this, so I'll put it here.

Gus started the game horribly, including being responsible for Crisp at the stoppage in D50 when Crisp goalled. 

Gus then worked himself into the game and had a couple of important clearances.

The final Collingwood goal from a D50 stoppage though, Gus is again responsible for Daicos. And like the Crisp D50 stoppage goal, Gus was left ball-watching or simply too slow.

I worry about Gus, because I'm not sure there's a position for him when we have both wings covered, Salem back in the team and Oliver back in the team.

He's a good reader of the play, but he's not quick and he's not a good user by foot either. He's wonderfully courageous, but I do wonder where he fits when/if we're at full strength.

Is it just me?

No I share your concern. Those turnovers and poor matching goals against were not good. I'm pretty sure @DeeSpencer agrees.

With the current back 7 and even Bowey out of it there's no place for him there.

He needs to play mid/wing and gives us depth and rotations there.

He's an important cultural influence which is underated and he has the flexibility to plug a defensive or midfield injury hole  in game.

Is he better than Harmes and JJ? Just.

  On 13/06/2023 at 01:03, DeeMee said:

It goes against decades of conditioning against finding anything positive about Collingwood … but credit where due, McRae is pretty damned impressive.

I can name a lot of coaches who have been the same until the tide turns. Let's see how he handle things when/if his team starts losing a few in a row. 

  On 13/06/2023 at 00:53, binman said:

 

Anyway, i disagree with your assessment and you disagree with mine.

That is not going to change, so let's draw a line under it here.

(note to self here: don't react to the completely whacko assessment of Hunter's kicking skills - wow he turned it over twice, barely an average kick? Ye gads that is nutso - quiet bin, calm down, you don't have to convince everyone you're right, relax, go to your happy place - bang, bang, bang)

 

I don't often agree with Binman but he's spot on here.  DeeSpencer's analysis is pretty much clueless.

  On 13/06/2023 at 01:17, old55 said:

No I share your concern. Those turnovers and poor matching goals against were not good. I'm pretty sure @DeeSpencer agrees.

With the current back 7 and even Bowey out of it there's no place for him there.

He needs to play mid/wing and gives us depth and rotations there.

He's an important cultural influence which is underated and he has the flexibility to plug a defensive or midfield injury hole  in game.

Is he better than Harmes and JJ? Just.

So maybe he's better to play a defensive role on a winger or a mid or even a half forward?

  On 13/06/2023 at 01:24, YearOfTheDees said:

I can name a lot of coaches who have been the same until the tide turns. Let's see how he handle things when/if his team starts losing a few in a row. 

McRae's post match loss against Geelong (?) or Sydney (?) in the finals last year was far from humble. He showed his hand. Goody is never a poor sport, McRae... well, he's had most of it his own way, and the one time it wasn't he cracked...

  On 13/06/2023 at 01:29, Cranky Franky said:

I don't often agree with Binman but he's spot on here.  DeeSpencer's analysis is pretty much clueless.

Do we have to call differing views clueless? 

  On 12/06/2023 at 08:01, Clint Bizkit said:

Joel Smith has changed this forward line.

One shocking kick at goal but otherwise he added a much needed spark, if only some people (entire MFC coaching department) could have seen this earlier.

Viney lives for the big stage, Salem was back to his Grand Final best.

In fairness he was injured for most of the first part of the season & then had to get game fitness through Casey. Petty out gave him his chance …

 

On the plus side, 22 and 26 pressure acts from Kozzie and ANB. 

Also to only get 1 goal across Kozzie, ANB and Spargo yet still win is encouraging.

  On 13/06/2023 at 00:34, Demonland said:

How was it not a push in the back to Viney at the end there when 30 seconds before it was a push in the back on Adams.

Yep, sub-standard umpiring. AGAIN. To that point, there were 2 other shocking non-calls that would have been easy shots on goal for us. End of the 2nd, Murphy tackled running away from goal, ran 5+ metres in the tackle, both arms free, dropped the ball, and the call …. ball up. Latter half of 3rd, Markov tackled, only 1 arm pinned, was spun TWICE!!! fully around, dropped to the ground…..ball up. Unfortunately, the reason they weren’t called was from outright fear of the Collingwood crowd reprisal. Call it the flipside of ‘noise of affirmation’. If umpires were full time, they might be able to coach this fear avoidance out of them. (I’m wild with frustration just thinking about them now). 

  On 13/06/2023 at 01:35, Deestar9 said:

In fairness he was injured for most of the first part of the season & then had to get game fitness through Casey. Petty out gave him his chance …

 

Smith’s career has been ruined by injuries. Plays 2 or 3 games then out for months with injuries. Never had a chance to establish himself as a regular. 

The Currant Bun has a story explaining the Petracca/Cox post-siren contretemps.

Can somebody with access give us a quick rundown please?

  On 13/06/2023 at 01:17, old55 said:

No I share your concern. Those turnovers and poor matching goals against were not good. I'm pretty sure @DeeSpencer agrees.

With the current back 7 and even Bowey out of it there's no place for him there.

He needs to play mid/wing and gives us depth and rotations there.

He's an important cultural influence which is underated and he has the flexibility to plug a defensive or midfield injury hole  in game.

Is he better than Harmes and JJ? Just.

I'd love to keep Gus in the D7 and have Bowey move into the F7 rotation. It wont happen but hopefully that is possibly what we are working towards.

Gus is not having a great year either, but hopefully he is building up to better form like the rest of the team. 

In his defence that stoppage goal from Crips in Q1 was more a result of a poor Max hit out than Gus caught ball watching but Daicos in Q4 was poor from Gus but also the whole team.  

  On 13/06/2023 at 01:33, A F said:

Do we have to call differing views clueless? 

When someone suggests that Salem is not an elite kick then yes that's clueless.

  On 13/06/2023 at 02:02, Demonstone said:

The Currant Bun has a story explaining the Petracca/Cox post-siren contretemps.

Can somebody with access give us a quick rundown please?

Yeah saw that too. Hopefully it's in the paper version that I can peak at today. 

Brayshaw is miles ahead of Harmes & Jordon. There's a huge gap

lf we were point out all the errors made by all our players, the argument would make more sense

Not running hard to create a contest is one such error that happens countless times during a game by many of our players

But Brayshaw's biggest asset is he continually gets to contests ... and he does that better than many of our players

His actual disposal numbers are quite high considering his role as a trouble shooter/utility

And his DE% sitting above 80 all season is fantastic

He is going to surprise many here with his B & F finish.  He's played well season but his errors are the only thing talked about

Petracca went at 50% DE yesterday ... so half of his possessions were inefficient (half) ... but to me that's not an issue either

The consistent & fair argument would be to point out all the errors made by all our players

And that includes not getting to enough contests, 2nd to the ball, not playing in front, not spoiling well, not running to position etc etc.  In 4 games this season we failed in most of those areas

But Brayshaw does all of the above well with the odd errant kick thrown in

Edited June 13, 20231 yr by Macca

  On 13/06/2023 at 02:09, layzie said:

Yeah saw that too. Hopefully it's in the paper version that I can peak at today. 

literally nothing to it - it's a write of his post-game interview with one of the radio stations where he says 'nothing in the convo; what's said on the field stays on the field'

that maynard had to haul cox away says what a complete creature cox is

  On 12/06/2023 at 23:51, John Crow Batty said:

What kind of bird is a Spargo, maybe a type of seagull? 

Definitely not a SPAngled dRonGO.