I waited in vain for some physical pressure on Butters.

We are too nice.

  On 21/05/2023 at 23:35, mauriesy said:

So retaliation works, does it? Like JVR giving away a goal.

I'd much rather retaliate on the scoreboard.

Maynard from the Pies does it better than anyone. It’s premeditated, timed very well (usually after a goal is scored) and has the desired outcome.
 
The immediate retaliation is as you’ve pointed out is fraught with drawing the ire of the umpire but the tactical stuff, like Maynard and others offer, is complete bereft in our team. 

  On 21/05/2023 at 23:25, rjay said:

It's not about retaliating it's about going harder at the next contest.

There are players that you never try and get under their skin as they only play better.

This is the leaning (Goody speak) Max needs.

You're never too old to learn.

Have played and watched enough sport to know this is sometimes not enough.

You HAVE to fly the flag at times.

We were flat and they had all the initiative for 3 of 4 quarters...We needed a spark.

Max has had this done to him mupltiple times now.  Maybe a response actually is required, You can't allow one of your most influencial players to get bullied out of playing for the day.

Going harder is great, but sometimes the team needs to take a stand for supposedly one of our most loved players.

You never see them try to target Viney in this way, why is that???!  Because he gets better under that type adversity....Max goes to water, he needs a chop  out quite simply. 

We seem to play that much better when we play unsociable football, a bit of pushing and shoving can fire the whole team up.  We should have been flying the flag for Max. We missed a trick imo.   

  On 21/05/2023 at 23:39, bobby1554 said:

Brayden Maynard and his cohorts would be licking their lips and salivating about the upcoming KB game

I was just about to say that with Brayden Maynard.

I absolutely cannot stand the bloke, but i always admire him that he's always the first to fly the flag for any teammate that's getting in a scuffle or is in trouble. We have no one of that ilk. 

Look at the way they went in to bat for Nick Daicos against Sydney. The whole team flew the flag and showed such great team unity.

 

Edited May 22, 20231 yr by dazzledavey36

Viney went hard at Boak in a contest. Boak was subbed out as a result. 

The umps actually paid free kicks against Port for blatant blocking of Max. First time I've seen that happen. Wish they'd do it more often.

Port always use this tactic on Max. Sometimes it works. sometimes it doesn't. I wouldn't be getting sucked in too much as  it benefits Port. Go hard when it's your turn which I'm not sure we're doing at the moment.

If we do down the path of softening up some players i suggest we put an X on the back of Powell Pepper and make sure we get a dig in whenever we're close to him. He deserves it. 

  On 21/05/2023 at 19:58, Demonsone said:

King questioned our culture with how the players didn’t jump to assist Gawn with the way the Port players were treating him, said this wouldn’t have happened in 2021

Couldn't disagree with what he said 

  On 22/05/2023 at 00:16, BDA said:

Viney went hard at Boak in a contest. Boak was subbed out as a result. 

The umps actually paid free kicks against Port for blatant blocking of Max. First time I've seen that happen. Wish they'd do it more often.

Port always use this tactic on Max. Sometimes it works. sometimes it doesn't. I wouldn't be getting sucked in too much as  it benefits Port. Go hard when it's your turn which I'm not sure we're doing at the moment.

If we do down the path of softening up some players i suggest we put an X on the back of Powell Pepper and make sure we get a dig in whenever we're close to him. He deserves it. 

I think Powell Pepper is similar to a Zorko. They are antagonists but if someone were to go after them physically, they are not pivotal to their team and the game rolls on around them. 

It's almost like the ruthlessness has escaped this time in recent weeks. In 2021-22 you had Ed Langdon, not known as a physical player, backing into packs and going when it was his turn. Doing his bit for the team. You had Tom Mcdonald an endurance key forward not giving up on any contest and if he couldn't mark it he'd sometimes go for a forward's spoil with contact that would make defenders feel it. And if someone like Max was in any sort of trouble we'd be in their face in a flash. The overall level of physicality had raised about 5%.

It just seems to be missing at the moment, it is something we can get back but I do agree we play our best when there's the unsociable element. It did remind me a bit of 2019 seeing the footage. 

 

Edited May 22, 20231 yr by layzie

  On 22/05/2023 at 00:07, dazzledavey36 said:

I was just about to say that with Brayden Maynard.

I absolutely cannot stand the bloke, but i always admire him that he's always the first to fly the flag for any teammate that's getting in a scuffle or is in trouble. We have no one of that ilk. 

Look at the way they went in to bat for Nick Daicos against Sydney. The whole team flew the flag and showed such great team unity.

 

We do and his name is Jack Viney. But he seems to be on the sidelines these days. Ever since he was striped of captaincy, he seems to have pulled himself away from anything to do with leadership. Still puts his body on the line and never shirks a contest. But it seems as though he doesnt want to interfere?

Grundy and May also have a bit scrag and id put Sparrow in that lot as well. JVR still too young. But the others are all nice boys. 

Edited May 22, 20231 yr by Gawndy the Great

  On 21/05/2023 at 20:29, dazzledavey36 said:

I think what was more damning was our stoppage work and post clearence stuff.

Players like Oliver getting sucked into the contest and then having no accountability and respect for their opponents who simply just ran off them. 

It's no wonder Rozee kicked that last goal in thr end because our mids in general paid no respect whatsoever.

All comes down to attitude and mindset.

And that's the game plan contest to contest when we lose it it looks bad, it is interesting to watch how the pies play in the backline and forward line and their midfield mindset, the blue baggers changed their setup after halftime but the game was gone by then, the pies only scored 3.2 compared to 3.9 so it will be interesting and for those who say we have the players, yes but not the game plan unless he changes, because this week Freo will fling the pill around so lets see how this week goes.

Max needs to line up Cox on KB and drive his knee into his back at the very first marking contest. Hell you could easily set it up at a May kickout. Drive it in really hard and then let him know it's coming every time, then just keep on doing it. Stop being the whipping boy Max. You can have a practice run against Darcy this Saturday.

Edited May 22, 20231 yr by Roost it far

  On 21/05/2023 at 22:46, beelzebub said:

It's footy... nothing new.

Everytime a team puts the "niggle" in to us....we do what...... ( insert sounds of fav  silent things ) 

Works a treat for oppositions. Umps turn blind eye to the [censored] treatment handed to Max.

But he is a big lad..  not enough mongrel imo.

As long as we stay the same... it all stays the same  and other Coaches will use the tactic to advantage. ( after all it's their job to win )

 

Butters and Rozee probably thought they were back at Nth Adelaide U19s, racking up 9 million possessions...and no-one went near them

  On 22/05/2023 at 00:27, layzie said:

It's almost like the ruthlessness has escaped this time in recent weeks. In 2021-22 you had Ed Langdon, not known as a physical player, backing into packs and going when it was his turn. Doing his bit for the team. You had Tom Mcdonald an endurance key forward not giving up on any contest and if he couldn't mark it he'd sometimes go for a forward's spoil with contact that would make defenders feel it. And if someone like Max was in any sort of trouble we'd be in their face in a flash. The overall level of physicality had raised about 5%.

It just seems to be missing at the moment, it is something we can get back but I do agree we play our best when there's the unsociable element. It did remind me a bit of 2019 seeing the footage. 

 

Would not play Tmac, injuries has impacted on him, time to change things.

  On 22/05/2023 at 00:49, Roost it far said:

Max needs to line up Cox on KB and drive his knee into his back at the very first marking contest. Hell you could easily set it up at a May kickout. Drive it in really hard and then let him know it's coming every time. then just keep on doing it. Stop being the whipping boy Max. You can have a practice run against Darcy this Saturday.

This isn't in Gawns DNA.

He's not a physical ruckman that's out there to hurt other opposition ruckman. He's never been like that and I don't expect him to all of a sudden change that in his game.

Just needs to go back to the basics that's made him a champion ruckman. Work rate and contested marking is he's number 1 strength around the ground. Less flopping too please..

He was non existent against Port unfortunately, but backing him in this weekend to have a ripper.

Max for me at the moment is being way too passive. I’m not wanting him to go out and physically intimidate, but for the love of god have a presence on the field Max.

For the last part of this segment, Montagna suggested that Melbourne should give the AFL a heads up on this treatment. We should absolutely be doing this because as soon as the umps start paying some free kicks on this, you’ll see opposition teams stop this in a heartbeat.

Ok this has happened now for some reason we didn't fly the flag, if it happens again i just want to see a physical response against Fremantle whoever.

Hibbo, Maysie, Vines, Pickett etc. flying the flag if push comes to shove and anyone else who has a bit of s h i t in them.

 

  On 22/05/2023 at 00:53, dazzledavey36 said:

This isn't in Gawns DNA.

He's not a physical ruckman that's out there to hurt other opposition ruckman. He's never been like that and I don't expect him to all of a sudden change that in his game.

Just needs to go back to the basics that's made him a champion ruckman. Work rate and contested marking is he's number 1 strength around the ground. Less flopping too please..

He was non existent against Port unfortunately, but backing him in this weekend to have a ripper.

He needs to add this to his game now that he's slowing down. Cox destroyed him last year and that can't happen again. Max needs to put his big boy pants on and give some back. I've decided to go to the KB game and if I watch Cox beat him up again I'm leaving. 

I think there’s actually a gap on the list.

I miss Vanders so much. He was that nasty player who didn’t give a damn. Even if he didn’t hit a target all night his team mates walked taller.

Viney’s great but he’s busy playing. We need someone a little bit expendable and physical.

We didn’t even have to remonstrate with the Gawn stuff, just get numbers to him and around him and if Port want to go, then let’s go. It’s indicative of players not thinking enough about team first actions. The same thing stands out with our lack of blocking for mids and forwards. How often do you see on our forwards go stand between a team mate and their opponent to create a gap? Gawn’s opponent should have a small wedged under their legs at every marking contest.

In terms of physicality our players all looked scared of giving away sling tackle frees. I say we can live with suspensions as long as you’re safe enough not to cause reckless concussions.

Sparrow and Petty were missed against Port. They are two who are up for a scrap and hit the contest with some energy. 

It’s one reason I’d like to give Joel Smith a run even if he’s rubbish. He’s not a physical player but he can bring some speed and (hopefully good) chaos in to our forward line that’s desperately lacking.

 

Edited May 22, 20231 yr by DeeSpencer

  On 22/05/2023 at 01:16, DeeSpencer said:

 

It’s one reason I’d like to give Joel Smith a run even if he’s rubbish. He’s not a physical player but he can bring some speed and (hopefully good) chaos in to our forward line that’s desperately lacking.

 

He'll bring chaos that's for sure, then he'll get subbed off injured. 

  On 22/05/2023 at 01:23, Roost it far said:

He'll bring chaos that's for sure, then he'll get subbed off injured. 

I’m willing to live with that over playing the 30 plus guys who start the game with no mobility 

  On 22/05/2023 at 01:25, DeeSpencer said:

I’m willing to live with that over playing the 30 plus guys who start the game with no mobility 

I actually am as well, I was adding some light humour to the mix. Whilst i don't see Smith as an answer we know that TMac and BBB are done so we need to play the others. I'm not adverse to Schache but pretty sure that's my rose coloured glasses talking.

  On 21/05/2023 at 22:38, rjay said:

I'm not sure...Port have been targeting Max for a number of years now.

They were prepared to give away a few free kicks because the tactic works.

First & foremost Max needs to look after himself by taking the game on. He's a big boy.

If he goes up another level then the tactic fails, but he didn't. His game was off which ensures he will get more of the same.

As for the team, they need to up the pressure rating in these games then maybe flying the flag wouldn't be necessary.

The opposition would be more concerned with getting a kick away & hitting a target.

Exactly rjay, looking back to iur first match vs Brisbane last year we made then look silly by playing tough, accountable and skillful footy ehile they ran around like headless chooks with their faux tough guy act. We're better off not getting sucked into that sort of stuff, but obviously need to be more accountable in and around the contest than what we were vs Port. This said we lost by 4 points vs a team in very good form despite our poor showing and should be able to tidy this up iver the next month.

King is right

need to get nasty 

not there to be friends

Edited May 22, 20231 yr by Superunknown

  On 22/05/2023 at 00:27, layzie said:

It's almost like the ruthlessness has escaped this time in recent weeks. In 2021-22 you had Ed Langdon, not known as a physical player, backing into packs and going when it was his turn. Doing his bit for the team. You had Tom Mcdonald an endurance key forward not giving up on any contest and if he couldn't mark it he'd sometimes go for a forward's spoil with contact that would make defenders feel it. And if someone like Max was in any sort of trouble we'd be in their face in a flash. The overall level of physicality had raised about 5%.

It just seems to be missing at the moment, it is something we can get back but I do agree we play our best when there's the unsociable element. It did remind me a bit of 2019 seeing the footage. 

 

Layzie, agree that our intensity is a bit down but that some on here mistake the faux tough guy stuff for playing hard. I think we do need to play with a bit more of an edge, but also appreciate that if we play that way for 23 rounds then we will be pretty beaten up come finals time. I'd rather we play well and win most games at 95% intensity and ratchet it up for the last 5-6 games before hitting our straps for the finals rather than limp into finals and go out in straight sets.