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22 minutes ago, binman said:

I think i'm right in saying that a couple of weeks back, the Pies were 18th for score from turnover (we are number one).

This is a guess, but i doubt any team has won a flag without being at least top 10 in scores from turnover because teams are twice as likley to score from a turnover than a clearance and therfore is it a more important score source. 

And it's not as if the Pies are killing it in clearances either -  they are 10th in total average clearances. We are 15th in total average clearances, but interestingly 3rd in centre clearances (pies are 11th).

https://www.wheeloratings.com/afl_stats_team.html

2nd highest rank in number of defensive 1 on 1s

Lowest rank in % defensive 1 on 1s lost

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48 minutes ago, old55 said:

2nd highest rank in number of defensive 1 on 1s

Lowest rank in % defensive 1 on 1s lost

Doing my head in this stat.

Lowest rank in % of defensive 1 on 1s lost is a good thing right? So with 2nd highest number of defensive 1 on 1's faced, we have lost the least (by %). That is freaken awesome. Aside from D50 stoppages our defence has actually held up in D50 quite well. If we were to tidy up our defensive groundball, we'd be back to '21 standards.

However, from memory we generate a lot of our scores from turnovers - particularly from defensive half. So naturally, oppositions will not allow us to outnumber and get our intercept game going as this is our 1 wood and our main scoring source. This explains the 2nd highest 1 on 1s ranking. it is not coincidental. 

The fact that we are winning them tells us that our D50 is strong - this is good news when everything else is equal. To me this highlights the problem is further up the ground. Midfield and F50. If we match the opposition in the midfield - we win games easily. 

We also have to find other scoring sources. Forward half turnovers in particular as teams will push up Half Forwards to the contest, which conveniently leaves our defense unmarked and hence get our intercept game going in the forward half. 

Im sure someone can explain what we are doing wrong in the F50 and why we cannot create turnover's there because you get this right, i think everything else can fall back into its rightful place. ANB, Kozzy have been down but i think its more team pressure rather than individuals...it lacks coordinated desperation to pressure the ball user.

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1 hour ago, At the break of Gawn said:

No matter how you look at it, we need to get better at defending forward 50 stoppages for the opposition. Even if we got that to inside the top 10 of the comp it’d be a huge improvement. This seems like an easy fix for Yze and the defensive coaches.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. 

There seems a disconnect with our rucks (particularly Max) and our stoppage set up at times in D50.

Perhaps, this is partly personnel, partly because we're trying to be super aggressive off half back, so we deliberately open up space in D50, rather than do what many teams do and clog it up?

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8 minutes ago, Gawndy the Great said:

it lacks coordinated desperation to pressure the ball user.

I think this is the part that is often overlooked.  We tend to forget about pressuring the ball carrier and falling back into zones, often giving them more time to assess their options to dissect us.

We always look better when we are actively pressuring the ball carrier.  To rival the best teams we need to get much better in this area.  When we play at our peak it is frenetic pressure on the carrier and it results in dirty balls and interceptions.

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So the segment is in a Fox Footy article and I don’t understand some of it, such as this:

“If you look at the absolute points for and points against, against West Coast, North Melbourne and Hawthorn, it’s plus 90 points in those three games, but against the rest it’s minus 50 points.”

What is this? It can’t be total points for/against because we won those games by a combined 200+ points. It’s not average either, because our average across the other 7 games is not -50.

Can anyone explain?

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MFC get pushed around by the AFL.

They have us in the gun at the moment with weekly citing of players on pretty dodgy grounds for doing so.

Maxie gets pushed around, punched, pummelled and prodded most weeks but his team mates don't fly the flag for him when they should be racing to his side.

The Demons are soft and compliant.

 

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32 minutes ago, Flag 2021 said:

MFC get pushed around by the AFL.

They have us in the gun at the moment with weekly citing of players on pretty dodgy grounds for doing so.

Maxie gets pushed around, punched, pummelled and prodded most weeks but his team mates don't fly the flag for him when they should be racing to his side.

The Demons are soft and compliant.

 

Maybe you should direct your chagrin towards the opposition players who beat up on Max and not to our players. Besides, if they all “race to his side” every time he’s belted, they’d be out of position for much of the time.

Our players “don’t fly the flag”??? They fly the flag every week just by running out on the ground. 

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9 hours ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Maybe you should direct your chagrin towards the opposition players who beat up on Max and not to our players. Besides, if they all “race to his side” every time he’s belted, they’d be out of position for much of the time.

Our players “don’t fly the flag”??? They fly the flag every week just by running out on the ground. 

That's not flying the flag....that's just carrying it out.

If you want an example of flying their flag... as much as i feel filthy in saying it....watch Collingwood...   they know how to fly the flag...

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10 hours ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Maybe you should direct your chagrin towards the opposition players who beat up on Max and not to our players. Besides, if they all “race to his side” every time he’s belted, they’d be out of position for much of the time.

Our players “don’t fly the flag”??? They fly the flag every week just by running out on the ground. 

You do raise a good point WCW. The incident a few weeks back in the Freo and Dogs game where 6 Dockers ran over to rough up Lobb leaving Treloar open to kick a penultimate goal in the game made me angry, I couldn't believe they took their mind of the job so easily in such a big moment of a game. It was school boys stuff and a pathetic cardinal sin. 

I would like to see Max get a little more support from his teammates when possible because we do need to stick the broke bottle back in the faces of players that want to try this as it will happen again. However in most of those situations last week if we've got 3 guys running over the umpire is not going to wait for everyone to get stuck into each other, they will throw the ball up straight away. 

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3 hours ago, beelzebub said:

That's not flying the flag....that's just carrying it out.

If you want an example of flying their flag... as much as i feel filthy in saying it....watch Collingwood...   they know how to fly the flag...

There’s no official definition of flying the flag.

 I do watch Collingwood and while that was admirable (running in to support young Daicos, not unlike our boys, in particular Brodie, backing up JvR when he was roughed up) it would be counterproductive if it were to happen each and every time Max was unduly manhandled.

Also, if we all see it then surely our players and coaches do too. How do we know that Goody and Maxy haven’t instructed the boys to NOT run to Maxy’s side when it happens?

edit: I could answer my own question (above) with one phone call. But that still wouldn’t be enough for people who wanna see things differently. 

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5 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

There’s no official definition of flying the flag.

 I do watch Collingwood and while that was admirable (running in to support young Daicos, not unlike our boys, in particular Brodie, backing up JvR when he was roughed up) it would be counterproductive if it were to happen each and every time Max was unduly manhandled.

Also, if we all see it then surely our players and coaches do too. How do we know that Goody and Maxy haven’t instructed the boys to NOT run to Maxy’s side when it happens?

edit: I could answer my own question (above) with one phone call. But that still wouldn’t be enough for people who wanna see things differently. 

Intersting it was an ex Collingwood player in Brodie.

To me it's irrelevant as to the why there's little support offered ( explain in a bit )....more that it DOESNT HAPPEN.

As to the why...any number of counters depending on the why. 

Nothing will change in terms of how oppositions rough up our lot...if nothing changes.  It's not about every time...you dont need to do it every time...in al lprobably you knock the bully back...they dont come back...and thats invariably the point.

Looks to me like open season on the Dees. Easy pickings...

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6 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Intersting it was an ex Collingwood player in Brodie.

To me it's irrelevant as to the why there's little support offered ( explain in a bit )....more that it DOESNT HAPPEN.

As to the why...any number of counters depending on the why. 

Nothing will change in terms of how oppositions rough up our lot...if nothing changes.  It's not about every time...you dont need to do it every time...in al lprobably you knock the bully back...they dont come back...and thats invariably the point.

Looks to me like open season on the Dees. Easy pickings...

Bub, if the umpires did their job properly, every hit to the back of the head ( which is supposed to be sacrosanct) should earn Max a free kick - and it would soon stop. But I do agree that standing up to a bully once is generally all that is needed.

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3 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Intersting it was an ex Collingwood player in Brodie.

To me it's irrelevant as to the why there's little support offered ( explain in a bit )....more that it DOESNT HAPPEN.

As to the why...any number of counters depending on the why. 

Nothing will change in terms of how oppositions rough up our lot...if nothing changes.  It's not about every time...you dont need to do it every time...in al lprobably you knock the bully back...they dont come back...and thats invariably the point.

Looks to me like open season on the Dees. Easy pickings...

But that’s where a club’s culture comes into it. We all know Collingwood’s and Melbourne’s ways of operating are vastly different. You can’t cherry-pick what parts of Collingwood you’d like us to adopt. As the saying goes, you can’t have your cake and eat it too.

PS if we ever did fully turn into Collingwood 2.0 I’ll be hanging up my flogger so to speak. No way I’d be in that cheer squad. For starters, my IQ and teeth don’t number in single digits. 😁

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