4 minutes ago, Older demon said:

I know he has some issues at the moment but Harmes has often been called on to play that run with role. He and occasionally Viney will play that role. The same against Gold Coast, Anderson ran riot and no one could run with him. Port played man-on-man footy and broke up our defence with precise short chip kicks. Our disposal was ordinary at times. 

Harmes is a one paced player full stop, we are still trying to play 2021 football and that has passed, proved that last year.

20 minutes ago, Stiff Arm said:

Interesting in Goody's presser he said they chose to not make Butters accountable after half time once we hit our purple patch in the 3rd. Yet Butters still had 18 in the 2nd half, incl 9 contested, and kicked 2 goals

Had he been shut down we would've won

Dumb, stubborn coaching

They could'hve easily switched viney onto him as he was being subdued by them. It's really really bad coaching. Goodwin would've fixed 2 problems and Viney loves the shutdown role. It frustrates the hell out of me. I didn't take last night's loss at all well.

1 minute ago, Roost it far said:

They could'hve easily switched viney onto him as he was being subdued by them. It's really really bad coaching. Goodwin would've fixed 2 problems and Viney loves the shutdown role. It frustrates the hell out of me. I didn't take last night's loss at all well.

Absolutely agree. Just mentioned the same in another thread. Viney not as quick as Butters, but his physicality would've countered him

6 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

Another thing I like to think about is.... Are there any appropriate losses for Narrm to have along the way to a finals campaign?

I have been very optimistic about this side. For me it’s not the losses now, it’s the trend. We have less than a 30% win rate against top 8 sides over the last 12 months (and we’ve played a lot of games against them, so there is good data). Losses are understandable, but that stat says we can’t currently compete with the best. As a result my optimism has turned into pragmatism. The numbers tell the truth.

4 minutes ago, The heart beats true said:

I have been very optimistic about this side. For me it’s not the losses now, it’s the trend. We have less than a 30% win rate against top 8 sides over the last 12 months (and we’ve played a lot of games against them, so there is good data). Losses are understandable, but that stat says we can’t currently compete with the best. As a result my optimism has turned into pragmatism. The numbers tell the truth.

Fair comment, and I’m not going to disagree that it’s worrying. and then I remind myself 2022 we were crocked injury wise last year from

mid year - that’s on the public record. and this year we’ve lost to PA by 4 points after a 5 day break

lost to brisbane at the Gabba and had a [censored] one against Essendon 

Edited May 20, 20231 yr by Engorged Onion

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

For some

Sure, but I can’t recall any marks that we should have had paid, just a few lousy non-calls that should have been awarded. We were simply not connecting last night, and marks - even contentious ones - were low on the ground (not literally). 

1 minute ago, The heart beats true said:

I have been very optimistic about this side. For me it’s not the losses now, it’s the trend. We have less than a 30% win rate against top 8 sides over the last 12 months (and we’ve played a lot of games against them, so there is good data). Losses are understandable, but that stat says we can’t currently compete with the best. As a result my optimism has turned into pragmatism. The numbers tell the truth.

I’m in the same boat as you @The heart beats true

Putting aside everything else that made us great in 2021 - the one thing that gave me belief above everything else was our ability to match it with and beat the best sides

Every team we beat in our finals campaign we had beaten during the H&A season - and it was that fact that gave me the ultimate belief that no matter what position we were in in a match, that we could never be counted out (19 points down in a GF, anyone?)

However, ever since then we’ve been making up the numbers against other contenders

I’m personally at a point now where I’m treating matches against anyone who’s not a contender as fugazi - not that they don’t matter, but that they’re not going to tell us anything substantive about how we will go in a finals campaign

A win against Collingwood on King’s Birthday is now a non-negotiable if we’re going to be a legitimate premiership threat - lose that, and we will have lost to them, Brisbane and Port, arguably the three most likely teams to win the flag

Come on Dees, give us that belief again!

2 hours ago, Redleg said:

He would not have called the 2nd 50 no matter what as it would have put Lever close enough to win the game. That was never going to happen 

Yeah... but lets put the maggots on the spot ;) 

1 hour ago, layzie said:

Can we all put under our avatar in the info section what we all expect out of the season so we can categorise A) The people who want a top 4 finish and another shot at a flag B) The people who are happy with top 8 C) The people who got their flag and are happy even if we lose every game.

It would make conversations in this thread easier and people will then understand why the A people are so hell bent on not dropping too many games for instance.

“I’ll take “everyone is a type A” for $1,000,000, Eddie.”

2 hours ago, Redleg said:

He would not have called the 2nd 50 no matter what as it would have put Lever close enough to win the game. That was never going to happen 

And if Port had of kicked straight in front of goals it would have been a 4 - 6 goal loss.

24 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

They could'hve easily switched viney onto him as he was being subdued by them. It's really really bad coaching. Goodwin would've fixed 2 problems and Viney loves the shutdown role. It frustrates the hell out of me. I didn't take last night's loss at all well.

The decision-making calculus would be interesting to unpack.

At what point is it reasonable for one to expect the coach to change tack.

Sometimes I wonder to what extent the coach undertakes some analysis of their own decision making. 

While I’m not suggesting anything at all, but since it’s inception, how’s the win loss ratio for Narrm going?

We were comprehensively beaten by a better set of heads..   those in Ports Box and those wearing their jumper.

Our lot left all their brains behind in Melb.

Were back to going out in straight sets again at this rate.

Maybe we should concentrate on playing footy.

1 minute ago, Superunknown said:

The decision-making calculus would be interesting to unpack.

At what point is it reasonable for one to expect the coach to change tack.

Sometimes I wonder to what extent the coach undertakes some analysis of their own decision making. 

Those in the coaches box should have unplugged him and made the changes needed. Surely it was clear to someone in the box.

Still fuming about how we got cooked last night.

Woeful coaching job by all.Gary Lyon stated, they didn’t come to play .Didn’t seem motivated from the start.Smart arses that needed to come down a peg.Several players need a wake up call.Bowey, JVR, ABN ( just doesn’t do enough), McVee, Spargo all need a huge shake up…there are several ready for a call up at Casey, give them a go rather than gunners.ABN should have been dropped ages ago.

We lost by 4 points in hostile territory, to a top 4 contender that played as well as they can (albeit with injured players to come back in). We have plenty of improvement in us. It's not a bad loss compared to Brissy and Essendon. Against Essendon in particular we were putrid.

We've responded well to defeats so i expect to get back to winning ways against Freo. We'll beat Carlton as well.

Pies game massive. We have to bring our A game. If they get off the hook they'll slaughter us. Can't leave it to Clarry and Trac. Everyone will have to put their shoulder to the wheel. We can't carry Langdon, ANB, Kossie, Chin in their current form. They have to lift.

1 hour ago, Stiff Arm said:

Interesting in Goody's presser he said they chose to not make Butters accountable after half time once we hit our purple patch in the 3rd. Yet Butters still had 18 in the 2nd half, incl 9 contested, and kicked 2 goals

Had he been shut down we would've won

Dumb, stubborn coaching

And there in a nutshell is imo the essential core of our problems. 

Zak Butters ...Man of the Match.

V

Our Brains trust ....saw what he was doing , and still allowed him to continue. 

Take a bow Coaching.

Oh ...btw.... can someone check on Tommy...  after having his head all but ripped off with 5 to go.

I concede you cant always say if butmaybe etc,  but if there was ever a sliding doors moment it was that.

A free TO MacDonald...likely a different outcome.

 

12 hours ago, Pennant St Dee said:

Kossie, front and centre is your role, no forward pressure and half hearted efforts at several ground ball contests for a lot of tonight.

Really poor 

His worst game for some time.

I found myself saying c'mon kozzie a number of times. 

3 hours ago, Redleg said:

He would not have called the 2nd 50 no matter what as it would have put Lever close enough to win the game. That was never going to happen 

Yeah? If the free is there, its paid. Its not the umpires job to decide the match outcome.

12 minutes ago, jayceebee31 said:

Gary Lyon stated, they didn’t come to play .Didn’t seem motivated from the start

I feel like most of the players think "I've got my medal"

32 minutes ago, demon3165 said:

And if Port had of kicked straight in front of goals it would have been a 4 - 6 goal loss.

Agreed but that doesn’t change what I said.

Port was the better side for 3/4, had a young star playing his best game and the umpiring.

We had 3/4 of our team playing poorly and tactically were beaten as well.

They deserved their win.

47 minutes ago, Stiff Arm said:

Absolutely agree. Just mentioned the same in another thread. Viney not as quick as Butters, but his physicality would've countered him

Both Viney and Gawn were physically smashed last night. Jack copped so many high hits with no free kicks.

Yeah, I can't understand why the coaches just tried to ignore Butters. I guess they did them same against Gold Coast. Rozas kicked 4 and Anderson had about 37 possies.

Goody seems to just be about, "we'll back our brand" and that's it. Seems a bit stubborn / lazy and or dumb.

We seem to be more flexible with the changes and rotations through the middle than in the past which is great.

Footy really is a game of ebb and flow. We seem to be still very slow on countering the opposition when they start to take control.

I dunno, we're not exactly playing consistent, convincing footy in the last 12 months.

3 minutes ago, Orion said:

I feel like most of the players think "I've got my medal"

You wonder sometimes if the whole thing hasnt gone stale.

What worked once has been eclipsed.

I'd like to know howca team with a list the envy of many a footy dept can turn up and turn it up so woefully. 

Last night was only maginally removed from embarrassing.