POSTGAME: Rd 08 vs Gold Coast

[Demon17 5,146]

9 hours ago, DEE fence said:

You should watch, Viney had a superb game 

That very last high ball needed someone to stand under it dropping and mark to save the day.

Viney of course.

[BDA 22,691]

The GC mid unit of Witts, Anderson, Rowell and Miller (once he's fit) are a match for anyone. 

My opinion of the Suns abilities was clouded by the game they coughed up against Freo during gather round. I had serious hate for them after that capitulation. Credit to them they put in a huge shift and very unlucky to lose. If they can maintain this level of performance, they're a chance against most teams. Might even sneak into finals.

The initial DL reaction to the win was overly negative, the reaction to the reaction has been give the Suns their due it was a tough win for us, a win is a win etc. I think the balanced view is not a bad as some make out but we were not at our best either. the defensive side of our game is not as reliable as it used to be. and we're crying out for a dominant KPF. Gotta be top of the list of priorities in trade week.

The bit that hasn't been mentioned and luckily didn't cost us was we very nearly coughed it up in the last. We kicked 2-6 with Fritsch missing some straightforward shots. Defensively we gifted them some goals to let them back in. Trent Rivers in particular with a howler for their last goal. Our decision making was poor in the last I thought. Obviously fatigue a factor but we played some dumb footy in that last 10 mins I thought. Umps didn't help either of course.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

...duplicate erratum

Edited May 6, 2023 by Demon Dynasty

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

1 hour ago, spirit of norm smith said:

(35 to 33 hitouts) v Gawn and Grundy.  There’s work to do on Clearances especially Centre clearances where we have been down in prior two seasons.  

Would like to see the hit outs to advantage ...

There are no doubt advantages of having the two big rucks, especially when the oppo bring two big fellas a la the Bombers.

However im wondering if what we gain, we also give up in 'some' other aspects such as hit outs to advantage and just reading the clearances in general off the two diff rucks.  A cohesion / consistency issue?

We all know in footy that doing the basics tends to be the better option in most cases.  Has this aspect resulted in some downside in this area i wonder, especially at center bounces?

Edited May 6, 2023 by Demon Dynasty

[Neitas bump 155]

7 minutes ago, BDA said:

The GC mid unit of Witts, Anderson, Rowell and Miller (once he's fit) are a match for anyone. 

My opinion of the Suns abilities was clouded by the game they coughed up against Freo during gather round. I had serious hate for them after that capitulation. Credit to them they put in a huge shift and very unlucky to lose. If they can maintain this level of performance, they're a chance against most teams. Might even sneak into finals.

The initial DL reaction to the win was overly negative, the reaction to the reaction has been give the Suns their due it was a tough win for us, a win is a win etc. I think the balanced view is not a bad as some make out but we were not at our best either. the defensive side of our game is not as reliable as it used to be. and we're crying out for a dominant KPF. Gotta be top of the list of priorities in trade week.

The bit that hasn't been mentioned and luckily didn't cost us was we very nearly coughed it up in the last. We kicked 2-6 with Fritsch missing some straightforward shots. Defensively we gifted them some goals to let them back in. Trent Rivers in particular with a howler for their last goal. Our decision making was poor in the last I thought. Obviously fatigue a factor but we played some dumb footy in that last 10 mins I thought. Umps didn't help either of course.

I agree Rivers needs to get that out of his game. He played a terrific last qtr. But I can recall his skill error by foot resulting in a goal in the last qtr over the past 3 consecutive weeks.

[bandicoot 1,395]

6 hours ago, deejammin' said:

That stat and ladder doesn’t really show anything as it includes both wins and losses. Geelong for example, lost CP badly in their three losses and won it easily in their 5 wins. It means they’re 6th on the ladder of it but it’s a hugely important stat when they’re winning. 

Our CP differential when we win is +31 (+58 before tonight).

When we lose it’s -20.

In fact tonight was the only MFC game this season where we lost CP by over 15 and lost all clearances (total, centre and stoppage) and won, and without Macpherson’s shank we nearly didn’t. 
 

Contest is the heart of our game, we’ve improved to find ways to win if we’re losing just contested possession or one type of clearance and that’s a big part of our improvement these last few years but our losses all have one thing in common. Losing CP. 

dees have never been number 1 in clearances.:: both 21 and 22 years had us in 5th. This year we are 13th. Goodwin clearly doesn’t focus on this aspect of the game as much. 

losing clearances to the number 1 team in the league was expected. 

We are also ranked 13th in contested possessions this year. So again losing CP to the number one CP team was expected. 

cats were 10th in both CP and clearances last year so I wouldn’t think it’s necessarily the Recepie for success. 

[waynewussell 5,147]

I was at Metricon for GC's win over Geelong earlier this year. I also was there for our previous game against the Suns. This game panned out as I expected; a four quarter slog! DL's who thought it would be a cakewalk were not reading the room.

I was also livid at how Rivers coughed up their last goal, but he fought tooth and nail to make up for it by the final siren. We got away with some borderline decisions in those final minutes, but after an evening of non-decision in GC's favour, I take that as overdue! Congratulations to Viney, Max, Petracca and Olie for showing the way when we were staring down the barrel.

[picket fence 16,990]

24 minutes ago, Demon Dynasty said:

Would like to see the hit outs to advantage ...

There are no doubt advantages of having the two big rucks, especially when the oppo bring two big fellas a la the Bombers.

However im wondering if what we gain, we also give up in 'some' other aspects such as hit outs to advantage and just reading the clearances in general off the two diff rucks.  A cohesion / consistency issue?

We all know in footy that doing the basics tends to be the better option in most cases.  Has this aspect resulted in some downside in this area i wonder, especially at center bounces?

MÀX did not tap to oùr mids once!

[picket fence 16,990]

28 minutes ago, Demon Dynasty said:

Would like to see the hit outs to advantage ...

There are no doubt advantages of having the two big rucks, especially when the oppo bring two big fellas a la the Bombers.

However im wondering if what we gain, we also give up in 'some' other aspects such as hit outs to advantage and just reading the clearances in general off the two diff rucks.  A cohesion / consistency issue?

We all know in footy that doing the basics tends to be the better option in most cases.  Has this aspect resulted in some downside in this area i wonder, especially at center bounces?

MÀX did not tap to oùr mids once!

[leave it to deever 17,506]

Interesting summary and perspective of the game from Gus in post match interview.  I think he may have downed a few energy drinks though.

[Great Northern Summer 708]

1 hour ago, Antioch said:

2.8 Ruckman who grabs the ball from a boundary line throw in or in a ruck contest. If a ruckman elects to grab the ball instead of hitting it and is tackled, then it will be an automatic free kick against that ruckman. He will not be given the benefit of prior opportunity. 
This happened to Chol tonight and no comment from the umpires or commentators, no free kick. Has the rule changed?

I think they changed this rule, are disregarding it or the interpretation of it. A few years ago they paid this 100% of the time when it happened. I haven’t seen it paid at all now for over a year.

[rpfc 28,228]

13 minutes ago, Glorious Day said:

I think they changed this rule, are disregarding it or the interpretation of it. A few years ago they paid this 100% of the time when it happened. I haven’t seen it paid at all now for over a year.

They changed the rule.

Its not prior to take the ball from the ruck.

[D4Life 2,435]

Take the win, also take note of Goodwin trying out a few different moves, before settling on his preferred team probably round 16 and beyond.

Fritta & Chandler not as good last night but noted training comments earlier in the week about Fritta off to the side on his own, and Chandler having scan last week so maybe NQR.

I couldn’t believe how often Suns players drop the ball cold and didn’t get pinged for it!!

Another 4 points is the key and one of BBB, TMac, Scache, even J Smith stepping up for key forward role, hopefully JVR managed well over the year and improves enough to hold down CHF!

 

[Brownie 5,967]

Went to the game last night. Metricon is a great place to watch footy. You can sit on the grass outside or have a kick of the footy and be in your seat within 2 or 3 minutes for the start of the game.

Perfect night for footy. No excuses

Steven May is proppy. My wife and I were watching him closely early on. Even his gait when walking is uneven. He's running at 80 percent now and that lack of closing speed hurts us at the moment.

Petty has to go back to cover this. We all agree.

Our forward line. BBB comes in but it won't fix much. The beauty of a half empty stadium meant we could move to the opposite end to sit in the forward pocket in the last quarter and watch our forward line malfunction. 

This is our biggest problem at the moment. So many forward fifty entries were wasted. WE JUST DON'T LOWER OUR EYES. We can't rely on a young bloke to take screaming pack marks 4 times a game. We can't rely on Tracc trying to bend a dribbler in from the boundary when Grundy is standing front and square 15m out in the last quarter. 

The long bombs from 60 or 70 out have to stop. We are doing it at AFL and VFL level

We were right in front of JVRs spoil in the last. It was a brilliant effort by him just to make the contest. Eyes only for the ball to try and lock the ball in which we're not doing well enough. It will be tragic if he goes for that gut running to make the contest.

Field kicking was off for a lot of the night. We are missing Salem's disposal.

Oliver was still very good. 

We are just not that good without Max.

Jack Viney saved that game for us in the last. The strength he displays in packs is just something else. The Jui Jitsu (I think) training he's doing is helping him keep his feet so well and also stopping him from dangerous tackling in some ways.

Umpiring - evened out after GC were gifted a handful up front earlier in the game.

Well done to Gold Coast. They are no easy beats and were unlucky not to win

I think the coaching staff have some serious work to do with how we are playing. From our defensive setups, our kickouts, our transition into the forward line. 

Another KPF ain't gonna fix it.

We're in a great position considering we're not firing on all cylinders.

Gotta be happy with the win. That's what good teams do.

Edited May 6, 2023 by Brownie

[The heart beats true 18,087]

10 hours ago, Jaded No More said:

I hope and in fact I’m sure the club isn’t happy to get smashed in contested possessions when we are a contest first team. Just because you’re winning doesn’t mean you can’t improve. This is a very soft part of our draw. We took an easy kill against Norf and we will have an easy kill most likely next week. But get smashed in the contest like we did tonight against Port, Carlton, Pies, GWS or Geelong and we will likely lose. 
There is a lot to like about this season, but there is a lot to work on as well. Every team is in the same boat luckily. There isn’t one side that is miles ahead of us. But what is clear is that so far, fast ball movement thru the corridor and extreme pressure in the contest is the way to beat us, so we have to get better at it, because unfortunately our biggest threats this season play exactly this way. 

Watching the press conference Goodwin seemed very confident that we could get them on turnover.

I feel like we are trying to win differently. For years we’ve needed to smash the contested possessions, where as I think now we are often having a look at breaking even there, which means we use our match winners more sparingly. Goodwin spoke about this in the presser. I think it’s about winning games, but not taxing our best players every week, so they are fresher when needed.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,121]

2 hours ago, Antioch said:

2.8 Ruckman who grabs the ball from a boundary line throw in or in a ruck contest. If a ruckman elects to grab the ball instead of hitting it and is tackled, then it will be an automatic free kick against that ruckman. He will not be given the benefit of prior opportunity. 
This happened to Chol tonight and no comment from the umpires or commentators, no free kick. Has the rule changed?

They changed that rule a couple of years back, it's not an automatic free kick anymore.

[Balance Demon 92]

Well, that was interesting. My observation was that, Petty is a backman. He is the tall third back. We were nearly undone down back like the Essendon game. Confusion is supreme with holding the ball and prior opportunity. No such rule for the Sun's, Where as, all the Dee's had to do was touch it! Pretty clear that when teams play man on man football on us that the game will be a hard slog and as such it was.

Blocking is another mystery, is there a rule?

Delivery to the forwards was average at best. This part of our game was hindered by the man on man game style of the Sun's mids. Our mids were not as accountable.

 

[The heart beats true 18,087]

I just watched The Round So Far on the AFL site. They spoke about the game as being a really tough contest, with a lot of brilliant individual efforts.

Last year in the first 10 games the team said our game against GCS up there was our hardest match by far. We only got home by 13 points, and that was when we looked unbeatable.

That’s a tough win last night I reckon. It wasn’t pretty, but I think that’s character building. 

[Dee Zephyr 19,267]

2 minutes ago, The heart beats true said:

I just watched The Round So Far on the AFL site. They spoke about the game as being a really tough contest, with a lot of brilliant individual efforts.

Last year in the first 10 games the team said our game against GCS up there was our hardest match by far. We only got home by 13 points, and that was when we looked unbeatable.

That’s a tough win last night I reckon. It wasn’t pretty, but I think that’s character building. 

I like watching the Round So Far, they show vision that we don’t see during the game. I had no idea our free kick given at the top of the square in the last for a goal was to do with Ben King pushing Petty over. 

[bandicoot 1,395]

22 minutes ago, Brownie said:

Went to the game last night. Metricon is a great place to watch footy. You can sit on the grass outside or have a kick of the footy and be in your seat within 2 or 3 minutes for the start of the game.

Perfect night for footy. No excuses

Steven May is proppy. My wife and I were watching him closely early on. Even his gait when walking is uneven. He's running at 80 percent now and that lack of closing speed hurts us at the moment.

Petty has to go back to cover this. We all agree.

Our forward line. BBB comes in but it won't fix much. The beauty of a half empty stadium meant we could move to the opposite end to sit in the forward pocket in the last quarter and watch our forward line malfunction. 

This is our biggest problem at the moment. So many forward fifty entries were wasted. WE JUST DON'T LOWER OUR EYES. We can't rely on a young bloke to take screaming pack marks 4 times a game. We can't rely on Tracc trying to bend a dribbler in from the boundary when Grundy is standing front and square 15m out in the last quarter. 

The long bombs from 60 or 70 out have to stop. We are doing it at AFL and VFL level

We were right in front of JVRs spoil in the last. It was a brilliant effort by him just to make the contest. Eyes only for the ball to try and lock the ball in which we're not doing well enough. It will be tragic if he goes for that gut running to make the contest.

Field kicking was off for a lot of the night. We are missing Salem's disposal.

Oliver was still very good. 

We are just not that good without Max.

Jack Viney saved that game for us in the last. The strength he displays in packs is just something else. The Jui Jitsu (I think) training he's doing is helping him keep his feet so well and also stopping him from dangerous tackling in some ways.

Umpiring - evened out after GC were gifted a handful up front earlier in the game.

Well done to Gold Coast. They are no easy beats and were unlucky not to win

I think the coaching staff have some serious work to do with how we are playing. From our defensive setups, our kickouts, our transition into the forward line. 

Another KPF ain't gonna fix it.

We're in a great position considering we're not firing on all cylinders.

Gotta be happy with the win. That's what good teams do.

Dees are are scoring 50% of the tine going inside 50. It’s the highest in the league. Not sure the coaches are too concerned 

[old dee 23,682]

10 hours ago, Dee Zephyr said:

But you’re happy with the result yeah od? When someone is hard to beat and you actually beat them it means it’s a pretty good win.

Of course a win by 1 point or 50 is still a win. Way better then no so long ago when we used to loose 90% of our games when the games were over at quarter time. 

[deejammin' 2,363]

2 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Sure. Bit without Fritsch's three shanks, Viney's shank etc we win comfortably.

Even if Macpherson kicks the goal we still come away with a draw not a loss.

My response was specifically about the importance of CP to our team and how we got beaten comprehensively in that area. If Fritta kicks those goals I’d imagine all our heart rates and general enjoyment of the last quarter would greatly increase. But also the ball would’ve gone back to the centre where we were getting beaten so who knows what would’ve happened. 

If we’re doing alternate universes I wonder what would’ve happened had Ballard not gone down, that break in play seemed to take our momentum when we were well on top and gave Rowell/Anderson time to catch their breath when, as Goody said in his presser, we were trying to grind them down. We also had chances to put a good break on them in the first quarter and missed it. 
 

My point was our losses and close games come when we get beaten in the midfield especially in CP and clearance. Statistically that’s pretty undeniable. I’m very happy to win and proud to have a team as good as ours but that will be an area we’re looking at this week, that’s all.

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

1 hour ago, Glorious Day said:

I think they changed this rule, are disregarding it or the interpretation of it. A few years ago they paid this 100% of the time when it happened. I haven’t seen it paid at all now for over a year.

46 minutes ago, rpfc said:

They changed the rule.

Its not prior to take the ball from the ruck.

17 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

They changed that rule a couple of years back, it's not an automatic free kick anymore.

As far as I can make out, it's not in the official rules and never has been.

It's an "interpretation" layered on top of the actual rules. Just plonked into the game of the whim of someone, then just as easily removed.

"Interpretation" of any game's rules is a joke and an abomination.

[BDA 22,691]

33 minutes ago, Brownie said:

WE JUST DON'T LOWER OUR EYES.

Spargo lowers his eyes. I reckon he should come back in. It's a tough call but I think chandler should make way.

[DeeMee 867]

11 hours ago, SPC said:

Didn’t watch the game due to an event. Should I give the replay a miss? 

I was tempted to do that based on this thread but ended up watching it. Do watch it. A great high pressure game, some moments of individual brilliance and great transitions in play. Both teams had a full on go. One of the best games of the year.

Of course if we had lost by5 points I would have a different viewpoint.

Commentating very ordinary.