On 16/03/2023 at 07:43, fr_ap said:

Considering we have a stack of unproven talent - Chandler, Laurie, Mcvee and probably Tomlinson (jury's out) and they've added a seasoned ruck forward and full back, I think they are clearly the stronger side on paper. Not sure why we are saying 'their depth must be in trouble' with Baker when we're starting Chandler who's no more accomplished and a member of the same Casey premiership side 

Young players we've spent time investing resources into > a player we delisted 

  On 16/03/2023 at 08:20, Billy said:

Early days, but that’s not a premiership line up

How does Laurie get a game before Jordan, looked totally  overwhelmed in the praccy match

Tomlinson looked way below senior standard, where’s Disco?

Chandler doesn’t excite me at all

& McVee before Hibbo

Van Rooyen, still can’t get a game even when Fritsch is out & Ben Brown is still ahead of him?

Selection blunders all round 

The above are only selection blunders if we lose.

  On 16/03/2023 at 08:39, dees189227 said:

Wasn't it lobb that tore us apart last year on the G?

he has a good game every 2 months. usually saves it for us

Given our outs I think this is about the best we can put on the ground on Saturday evening.

Tomlinson has the size and experience and needs the confidence to compete. I think that as long as our defensive structure hold up we can limit the doggies scoring to something manageable. A lot of the outcome will rely on the midfield doing the defensive things to ensure pressure on the ballcarrier and delivery into the forward 50. If Tomlinson dose the simple things well he will have done his job. he will have the support of the defensive unit and the team, if not some of the supporters on here.

Similar thing with Laurie. does his job simply and well and we can not ask for more. Interested to see that he my spend time in the middle as an inside mid. will be interesting to see how he is used.

Good to see Chandler in the team freeing up Kossie for a bit more time in the mids.

Could see Hibberd or JVR as the sub.

 

  On 16/03/2023 at 08:38, binman said:

Depwnds what you mean bt best. Nibbler is one of our most important players. So for me he is on of our best.

A top 10 finish in last year's bluey speaks to that.

Of course Oliver is harder to replace in terms of pure abilty.

But that is because Oliver is one of the best mids of the modern era.

But Oliver is easier to replace in terms of role than nibbler. We have any number of players who could replace his midfield minutes - either collectively or one player.

As I noted, there isn't one player in the twos who could adequately cover nibbler's role. They would likely have to shuffle some roles within the team to cover what nibbler brings.

I think that is a bit galaxy brain to think that Oliver is as replaceable as ANB. You cannot replace your best players, their talent and consistent performance is existentially important for us to being a top 4 team. We can’t replicate that. 

Now ANB plays an important box-to-box role as a fwd. I get that. But that is more replaceable than what our top 10 most talented performers provide. 

Also, as an aside, he is valued but he was told his skill execution and decision making has him on thinner and thinner ice as our depth catches up to him.

  On 16/03/2023 at 08:30, dazzledavey36 said:

Oh dear....

What's up Daz?

Top level of the ponsford is shut.

 

Where will @Supermercado and I sit instead?

On Tomlinson, surely he knows he is essentially playing for his career? Is that motivation for him to step up? He has talent. Injuries may have hampered him. We know the game means a lot to him, it was on show after our GF win. Let’s hope he treats it as a lifeline and finds the form he had in patches over the last couple of seasons. The practice games don’t fill me with confidence, but would be very happen to be proven wrong

  On 15/03/2023 at 22:11, Demon Dynasty said:

Have to have faith in the SC but for mine i don't see how Laurie got a call up just yet.

A very nice prospect at VFL level but his best down there is still every other game or sometimes less regular.

I didn't see anything in the two warm ups that jolted me into thinking "hey get this young prospect in pronto".  He looked ok at times but nothing spesh.

Judd on the other hand def stuck his hand up in the two warm ups.

Personally i just don't see Laurie as being ready for the big stage and would rather see him continuing to work on his skills & consistency in bringing them at VFL level for now.

He isn't that far off either but imv more work needed and a nice WIP prospect with a possibility for a call up at some point if/when the opp arose.

Obviously the MFC coaching panel

have seen plenty that you haven’t seen. It’s not necessarily the best of our depth players that get’s  picked rather the best for team balance. 

  On 16/03/2023 at 09:16, rpfc said:

I think that is a bit galaxy brain to think that Oliver is as replaceable as ANB. You cannot replace your best players, their talent and consistent performance is existentially important for us to being a top 4 team. We can’t replicate that. 

Now ANB plays an important box-to-box role as a fwd. I get that. But that is more replaceable than what our top 10 most talented performers provide. 

Also, as an aside, he is valued but he was told his skill execution and decision making has him on thinner and thinner ice as our depth catches up to him.

Again I go back to TMac’s comment that  ANB & Spargo play the most important roles in the team. There is def no

like for like in our reserves . 

Reckon Tomlinson's size got him the nod.

  On 16/03/2023 at 09:36, Deestar9 said:

Again I go back to TMac’s comment that  ANB & Spargo play the most important roles in the team. There is def no

like for like in our reserves . 

That’s cute.

I mean, it’s cute when they say that but we can cut the [censored] yeah?

On here, as anonymous Dees fans - we can cut that [censored] out?

They are role players.

By definition, people. By definition.

  On 15/03/2023 at 08:30, dazzledavey36 said:

Tommo got absolutely torn apart by a kid against St Kilda who was only signed a week prior to the SSP.

He's cooked and should not be playing unless our backline is in complete crisis in which this instance, it isn't.

He also has had an awesome pre-season and in the past has done jobs on Hawkins, McKay and the like.

Quick to rule him out over 1 game that didn't mean anything.

The fox coverage saying May has hammy but I’ve read Richo’s comments on selection sighting calf. Hopefully it’s not both and that it’s only a 1 weeker. Will need him more next week at the Gabba. 

  On 16/03/2023 at 07:32, fr_ap said:

Gee whiz Tomlinson. Last I saw he couldn't turn, jump or push. Naughton will have an absolute field day. 

Disappointing they didn't go D Turner.

TOMLINSON ??? Carriiist almighty!!! really struggle to see why and how he gets a game on some very very ordinary pre season form

Im now a little concerned

  On 16/03/2023 at 09:40, Travy14 said:

He also has had an awesome pre-season and in the past has done jobs on Hawkins, McKay and the like.

Quick to rule him out over 1 game that didn't mean anything.

He also had Ben Brown kick 6 on him in one of the scratchies. This was confirmed by @picket fence.

Even without May I was still confident. Now seeing Tomlinson playing I can't say I'm confident at all now.

  On 16/03/2023 at 09:39, rpfc said:

That’s cute.

I mean, it’s cute when they say that but we can cut the [censored] yeah?

On here, as anonymous Dees fans - we can cut that [censored] out?

They are role players.

By definition, people. By definition.

It seems as if you are using the term  role players as pejorative, as in 'he is just role player'. Peripheral. 

But to be honest it suggests to me, like many dees fans, you don't understand Nibbler's role or fully appreciate his importance to our team.

All players at the demons have a specific role.

Nibbler is a critical piece of the puzzle in terms of our game plan and how we play. 

A few years back fans were slow to pick up the importance of the wing position in footy from a game plan and structural perspective. Or understand that it was a distinct role.

Now people get it - and understand it takes a particular skill set - and mind set - to be a top winger. We have drafted in hunter specifically because he can play that role. Every dees fan can conceptualise what the hunter's role will look like.

Like the wing position, nibbler plays a critical, defined role that is more than the sum of its parts. 

But unlike the wing role, nibbler's specific role is really hard to understand just from watching the game.

It seems to me  players assigned specific roles, like spargo and nibbler, are often unfairly maligned.

And I think one reason is because their role is often not understood, and what they do is often hard to measure - particularly when the old 'how many times did he touch the pill', or other old school stat metrics are applied.

Back in the 80s, 90s and early 2000s, a tagger was probably the only regular designated role player. The tagger was was oft derided, and never a star but it was easy for fans to work out, one, what their role was and two did they perform it well. If their star opponent had fewer possessions and less impact than usual, then job done.

It is much harder to assess modern role player's performances. For example by what criteria do fans assess nibblers performance week in, week out.

For example, we wouldn't know that a kpi for nibbler is how often he enables tracc to push forward and take up an aggressive, offensive post clearance position (which is a BIG  part of our strategy to generate scoring chains) if it didn't come up in an interview tracc did last year.

I completely reject the notion that Nibbler's result in the the bluey was somehow a function of durability, or that it because the coaches 'love' him. I think that is disrespectful to nibbler. And to coaches too for that matter.

The result is an indication that he played the role he was assigned to a very high level.

Perhaps the key asset a gun role player needs, has always needed, is unwavering discipline. Discipline to not diverge from the assigned role and plan. No chasing possessions, or scoring opportunities to appease the critics.

In nibbler's case discipline to also run himself into the ground - every single week. 

On that point, it is worth noting nibbler has been playing much the same role for at least three full seasons now. And has barely been out of ones on that time.

It's a bloody hard role -  how long would it take, say Chandler, to learn how to play it to anywhere near nibbler's level?

If a player doesn't have the same, or greater, endurance as nibbler, he can't play the role. Period.

Above all, it's nibblers incredible endurance - and as I noted, discipline to push himself to his limits all game, every game - that, one enables him to play his critical role, and two do it to the level he does.

The key challenge for any player that  was to come in for nibbler is that they have to be elite level endurance athletes, and runners (ie not a power athlete).

By his third season of AFL nibbler already ran further per game than any other player in the team. By some margin. He was only 21 that year (2017).

Super fit and athletic then - he has only got fitter and a better runner since  The only comparable athletes in the team in terms of running ability and aerobic capacity is langdon, and perhaps now Grundy and hunter (though Oliver looks like he is an amazing shape - and his physique looks more like 800 metres runner than it had previously). 

Howes looks a potential great athlete - he has the right physique. But I suspect he has a fair bit of work to do  to build his tank to get to even nibblers 2017 level.

I thought Rosman might be a show, with his elite running background (though probably too big)

Jordon is the other one, he could get fit enough, but he isn't quick enough and will never cover the ground as fast as nibbler (which is key for his role).

Edited March 16, 20232 yr by binman

  On 16/03/2023 at 09:36, Deestar9 said:

Again I go back to TMac’s comment that  ANB & Spargo play the most important roles in the team. There is def no

like for like in our reserves . 

Recently listened to that podcast 

Tom talks about Nibblers (and Spargos) role - a role he calls high half forward.

The context for the comments was how much footy had changed in terms of the aerobic demands and the incredible amount of running every player now has to do (eg defensive running, closing space, zoning off etc)

(In relation to resting key forwards on the bench Tom says 'the running you gotta do now to get back up the ground defensively, you just want a break, you actually need a rest every quarter.....the high speed repeat running is so bad you can't do it with the intensity without a rest')

Of what he calls the high half forward role, Tom says this (from 46.48 - my emphasis):

'The hardest role is the high half forward role, for us it's Alex Neal Bullen and Charlie Spargo. Their running is insane compared to everyone else.

So, we measure distance, but then we have this metric called high speed, which is sort of like a fast stride and there's sprint which is above 25, 26 ks, which is flat out.

But those boys have most of the game in the high speed band - like over 3ks a game in that striding distance, and it's the hardest position by far because every time there's a turnover they're expected to get back up, in line with the ball to defend and then they have to get out the back on offence - their role sucks'

Let's assume Tom McDonald knows what he is talking about. He reckons Nibbler's (and Spargos) role is, by far, the hardest position and their running is insane compared to everyone else.

It is logical then that only some players are capable of playing that role. For example Tracc couldn't - he doesn't cover the ground well enough and is a power, not endurance athlete.

So, a very specialized, specific role. One that is therefore very hard to fill (as opposed to say a utility or mid role)

What player not currently in the best 22 has the tank, athleticism and running power to play Nibbler's role (not to mention the discipline and work ethic)?

 

  On 16/03/2023 at 09:52, dazzledavey36 said:

He also had Ben Brown kick 6 on him in one of the scratchies. This was confirmed by @picket fence.

Even without May I was still confident. Now seeing Tomlinson playing I can't say I'm confident at all now.

Agree 100% Dazzle unfortunately Tommo aint the answer

We need early 2021 Tommo ….remember that game Hawkins smashes Maysie in the face and put him out of action, from memory we rolled Tommo onto him he did a great job and we won comfortably

  On 16/03/2023 at 10:02, binman said:

Recently listened to that podcast 

Tom talks about Nibblers (and Spargos) role - a role he calls high half forward.

The context for the comments was how much footy had changed in terms of the aerobic demands and the incredible amount of running every player now has to do (eg defensive running, closing space, zoning off etc)

(In relation to resting key forwards on the bench Tom says 'the running you gotta do now to get back up the ground defensively, you just want a break, you actually need a rest every quarter.....the high speed repeat running is so bad you can't do it with the intensity without a rest')

Of what he calls the high half forward role, Tom says this (from 46.48 - my emphasis):

'The hardest role is the high half forward role, for us it's Alex Neal Bullen and Charlie Spargo. Their running is insane compared to everyone else.

So, we measure distance, but then we have this metric called high speed, which is sort of like a fast stride and there's sprint which is above 25, 26 ks, which is flat out.

But those boys have most of the game in the high speed band - like over 3ks a game in that striding distance, and it's the hardest position by far because every time there's a turnover they're expected to get back up, in line with the ball to defend and then they have to get out the back on offence - their role sucks'

Let's assume Tom McDonald knows what he is talking about. He reckons Nibbler's (and Spargos) role is, by far, the hardest position and their running is insane compared to everyone else.

It is logical then that only some players are capable of playing that role. For example Tracc couldn't - he doesn't cover the ground well enough and is a power, not endurance athlete.

So, a very specialized, specific role. One that is therefore very hard to fill (as opposed to say a utility or mid role)

What player not currently in the best 22 has the tank, athleticism and running power to play Nibbler's role (not to mention the discipline and work ethic)?

 

You put it far more eloquently than I but a perfect summary …

  On 16/03/2023 at 10:19, sisso said:

We need early 2021 Tommo ….remember that game Hawkins smashes Maysie in the face and put him out of action, from memory we rolled Tommo onto him he did a great job and we won comfortably

That was pre knee Tommo.

Edited March 16, 20232 yr by dazzledavey36

Yeah the pendulum has swung. 

  On 16/03/2023 at 10:02, binman said:

Recently listened to that podcast 

Tom talks about Nibblers (and Spargos) role - a role he calls high half forward.

The context for the comments was how much footy had changed in terms of the aerobic demands and the incredible amount of running every player now has to do (eg defensive running, closing space, zoning off etc)

(In relation to resting key forwards on the bench Tom says 'the running you gotta do now to get back up the ground defensively, you just want a break, you actually need a rest every quarter.....the high speed repeat running is so bad you can't do it with the intensity without a rest')

Of what he calls the high half forward role, Tom says this (from 46.48 - my emphasis):

'The hardest role is the high half forward role, for us it's Alex Neal Bullen and Charlie Spargo. Their running is insane compared to everyone else.

So, we measure distance, but then we have this metric called high speed, which is sort of like a fast stride and there's sprint which is above 25, 26 ks, which is flat out.

But those boys have most of the game in the high speed band - like over 3ks a game in that striding distance, and it's the hardest position by far because every time there's a turnover they're expected to get back up, in line with the ball to defend and then they have to get out the back on offence - their role sucks'

Let's assume Tom McDonald knows what he is talking about. He reckons Nibbler's (and Spargos) role is, by far, the hardest position and their running is insane compared to everyone else.

It is logical then that only some players are capable of playing that role. For example Tracc couldn't - he doesn't cover the ground well enough and is a power, not endurance athlete.

So, a very specialized, specific role. One that is therefore very hard to fill (as opposed to say a utility or mid role)

What player not currently in the best 22 has the tank, athleticism and running power to play Nibbler's role (not to mention the discipline and work ethic)?

 

  Quote

 

I completely reject the notion that Nibbler's result in the the bluey was somehow a function of durability, or that it because the coaches 'love' him. I think that is disrespectful to nibbler. And to coaches too for that matter.

 

They do love Nibbler just because he does exactly what is asked of him.  Not necessarily what us fans in the stands see, but what they ask hin to do.

I miss Bruce on nights like this.