Pre-season Intensity

[binman 42,920]

5 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Would really liked to see Tomlinson trial as a  tall high half forward.

His endurance levels and work rate would easily blow up a lot of defenders which would be a huge strength to team structure.

I agree. 

He played CHF for a few games with the giants. I don't think he set the world on fire, but he's a bit small for a true CHF. 

He's struggled with agility and lateral movement since coming back from his knee. But is looking in great shape and seems to have trimmed down.

If he can get a bit more agile, high half forward is perfect for hom. He's big enough to almost be a key position player, and not bad one on one so he'd be a tricky match up. Good field kick too, which can't hurt.

A high half forward role is probably his best chance of getting a regular game in the ones. We are pretty well set for key defenders. 

If he were to focus on that role  he'd probably be competing with melksham and Schache.

[Gawndy the Great 9,011]

Prediction: Preseason intensity will be the 2023 version of the loading thread. 

Edited January 22, 2023 by Gawndy the Great

[McQueen 17,864]

1 hour ago, binman said:

I agree. 

He played CHF for a few games with the giants. I don't think he set the world on fire, but he's a bit small for a true CHF. 

He's struggled with agility and lateral movement since coming back from his knee. But is looking in great shape and seems to have trimmed down.

If he can get a bit more agile, high half forward is perfect for hom. He's big enough to almost be a key position player, and not bad one on one so he'd be a tricky match up. Good field kick too, which can't hurt.

A high half forward role is probably his best chance of getting a regular game in the ones. We are pretty well set for key defenders. 

If he were to focus on that role  he'd probably be competing with melksham and Schache.

Did we not play him on the wing early days? I thought the knock was ‘too slow’ back then so I’m assuming any HHF role would negate any requirement to steam back and defend when needed - endurance aside. 

[adonski 12,109]

I don't think Tomlinson is AFL standard at any role other than dour lockdown key defender, and even that's debatable post knee 

[BW511 2,668]

I wouldn’t necessarily put Tommo behind Melky in the HFF spot and Melk gets games.

The Forward flanks and pockets are going to be a very, very hard position to cement this year. There’s about 10 blokes with a sniff.

I just hope the continuity mantra is applied a little more sensibly this year and 2 bad games in a row is the absolute maximum before we rotate

[Tolstoys Nudge 1,658]

On 1/21/2023 at 11:27 AM, rpfc said:

Every year we do this. The training house is always destroyed.

Good thing we don’t have a dedicated home base yet…

Not LY friend — blv me 

[Tolstoys Nudge 1,658]

On 1/21/2023 at 9:03 PM, Big Col said:

FWIW King has been on the Demons bandwagon for 18+ months. Mid season  2021 he compared the Demons to the emergence of the Cats in 2007. We won 1 flag. Let's hope we can win at least 3/5.

 

 

Slightly Incorrect 

 

Said our list was capable of dynasty but he jumped right off LY in terms of how we were playing even when we were winning he wasn’t sure as I’m his “core four” stats we were showing as off the pace.

Having seen the comp for spots and speaking to a few of the medical crew it seems all agree the intensity is on another plane. Opposed to LY where it was noticeably soft-ish in terms of off-ball intensity.

 

IF the rumours re Goodwin learning from Scott’s revelations this time LY and about not sticking to same old gameplay and being reloaded to hear new ideas etc as well as not having favourites who are locks irrespective of form then we will be FINE!!!

 

 

 

Edited January 22, 2023 by Nudge

[rpfc 28,407]

27 minutes ago, Nudge said:

Not LY friend — blv me 

Not entirely sure what this means but Nudge - where were you in trade week?

 

[58er 6,432]

10 hours ago, binman said:

I agree. 

He played CHF for a few games with the giants. I don't think he set the world on fire, but he's a bit small for a true CHF. 

He's struggled with agility and lateral movement since coming back from his knee. But is looking in great shape and seems to have trimmed down.

If he can get a bit more agile, high half forward is perfect for hom. He's big enough to almost be a key position player, and not bad one on one so he'd be a tricky match up. Good field kick too, which can't hurt.

A high half forward role is probably his best chance of getting a regular game in the ones. We are pretty well set for key defenders. 

If he were to focus on that role  he'd probably be competing with melksham and Schache.

Does not make any sense at all saying we recruited Schache for a high half forward role.  We need pace on our FOrward Flanks like Chandler or ANB Kossie etc. not tall slower players to compete with our forwards already in Tmac BBB JVR or the resting ruckman or Schache in a KPF or forward pocket. 

[Tolstoys Nudge 1,658]

9 hours ago, rpfc said:

Not entirely sure what this means but Nudge - where were you in trade week?

 

Never mind I was just being half amusing half factual in terms of LY pre season.

this years stuff always straight fwd, heard the hunter news a day before it got out but just couldn’t find the time to post LY.

 

 

[binman 42,920]

6 hours ago, 58er said:

Does not make any sense at all saying we recruited Schache for a high half forward role.  We need pace on our FOrward Flanks like Chandler or ANB Kossie etc. not tall slower players to compete with our forwards already in Tmac BBB JVR or the resting ruckman or Schache in a KPF or forward pocket. 

Training reports suggest we have been practicing a set up similar to the Cats model of leaving space inside 50 with the ball kicked over the head of forwards who run back into that space to mark and have a shot on goal.

In that set up Cameron essentially plays as a high half forward, not the KPP role he has played for most his career. That leaves Hawkins inside 50 - and any other tall marking target, such as Blicavs who might have pushed forward.

Cameron suits the role super well because he is athletic, moves well, marks well on the lead out into space (which is the critical link up kick we employ too - ie long leads from players like Tmac from the half forward flank into space on the wing) and is a penetrating and accurate field kick who creates scoring opportunities.  And importantly he can still compete, for example in pack marking situations, as a key position forward, when necessary (though that is clearly not a strength).

Cameron is critical for the Cats in terms of how they transition the ball from their back half and enter their 50. That is the role i suspect they have Schache in mind for. He has the athletic profile and skill set for the role - and like Cameron, marks well on the lead, likes to have space and is a beautiful left foot kick. 

And i hope for Schache's sake i'm right. Otherwise, his chances of cementing a spot in the ones are minimal, as as you point out he is competing with TMac, Brown, JVR and the resting ruck for a spot as a key forward. He could certainly slot into Fritter's role as a medium leading forward, but would only ever do so as a fill in.   

And really, he'll never be a one on one key position forward (like JVR so obviously is for example), so it doesn't make much sense that they would have traded him to play a role he is, one, unlikely to get many opportunities to play and two is no good at.   

[Bystander 903]

On 1/21/2023 at 8:25 PM, Red and Bluebeard said:

The most intriguing thing about that article is the phrase "panels in front". What  on earth does that mean? The opposite of "panels in behind"? (which sounds painful!) 😆

I assuming he is referring to fencing panels, as you have at racetracks. So a leading horse might be 3 panels in front of the following horse.

[deelusions from afar 1,810]

54 minutes ago, binman said:

Training reports suggest we have been practicing a set up similar to the Cats model of leaving space inside 50 with the ball kicked over the head of forwards who run back into that space to mark and have a shot on goal.

In that set up Cameron essentially plays as a high half forward, not the KPP role he has played for most his career. That leaves Hawkins inside 50 - and any other tall marking target, such as Blicavs who might have pushed forward.

Cameron suits the role super well because he is athletic, moves well, marks well on the lead out into space (which is the critical link up kick we employ too - ie long leads from players like Tmac from the half forward flank into space on the wing) and is a penetrating and accurate field kick who creates scoring opportunities.  And importantly he can still compete, for example in pack marking situations, as a key position forward, when necessary (though that is clearly not a strength).

Cameron is critical for the Cats in terms of how they transition the ball from their back half and enter their 50. That is the role i suspect they have Schache in mind for. He has the athletic profile and skill set for the role - and like Cameron, marks well on the lead, likes to have space and is a beautiful left foot kick. 

And i hope for Schache's sake i'm right. Otherwise, his chances of cementing a spot in the ones are minimal, as as you point out he is competing with TMac, Brown, JVR and the resting ruck for a spot as a key forward. He could certainly slot into Fritter's role as a medium leading forward, but would only ever do so as a fill in.   

And really, he'll never be a one on one key position forward (like JVR so obviously is for example), so it doesn't make much sense that they would have traded him to play a role he is, one, unlikely to get many opportunities to play and two is no good at.   

Interesting.  Obviously Schache has untapped potential - but so do many players.  I always thought he didn't have enough mongrel / aggression in him to play the role he needed to.  Maybe the role you're describing allows him to make the most of his strengths.

On Tomlinson, I do think he is under-utilised with his endurance.  But I can't see him and TMac playing in the same forward line as they bring similar things (i.e height with endurance).  I feel with a resting ruckman and BBB / JVR we would be too top heavy and the best teams will be able to run it out of their defence too easily.

[binman 42,920]

14 minutes ago, deelusions from afar said:

But I can't see him and TMac playing in the same forward line as they bring similar things (i.e height with endurance).  I feel with a resting ruckman and BBB / JVR we would be too top heavy and the best teams will be able to run it out of their defence too easily.

I agree with this - if they are being asked to play the same role.

To be honest i thought it was worth trying Tomo in that role last season. Unfortunately Weed wasn't up to it and i would have considered giving tomo a crack at it, such is the structural importance for us of that role. 

But as i said, Tomo is little undersized i think to be true KPF. Which is why i think a mobile forward role might be his best option. And to play that role he has to almost change body shape from previous years, become lighter and more like a 800 metre runner than a 100 metre sprinter (who are generally strong, power athletes). Or more like say Grundy than say hawkins - tall but lean.

And he definitely has to improve his lateral movement and agility, something he has, like most players (eg Lever) struggled with post ACL.

He doesn't look much different in this photo from training the other day, so perhaps I'm of the mark.

But I'd be interested in the views of regular track watchers whether he is more agile and moving better this preseason - and what role he has been playing in match sims and in drills. 

 

 

[DeeSpencer 25,687]

3 hours ago, binman said:

Cameron is critical for the Cats in terms of how they transition the ball from their back half and enter their 50. That is the role i suspect they have Schache in mind for. He has the athletic profile and skill set for the role - and like Cameron, marks well on the lead, likes to have space and is a beautiful left foot kick. 

And i hope for Schache's sake i'm right. Otherwise, his chances of cementing a spot in the ones are minimal, as as you point out he is competing with TMac, Brown, JVR and the resting ruck for a spot as a key forward. He could certainly slot into Fritter's role as a medium leading forward, but would only ever do so as a fill in.   

I think we’ll see T Mc back as a pretty classic lead up CHF. With Schache purely for depth, he doesn’t have the speed or smarts to be Cameron. 

But with the resting ruck and likely one of JVR/BBB also up forward I’d be looking at Fritsch maturing and diversifying his game and moving from his stay at home role to mixing in a lot more high half forward. He’s the closest thing we’ve got to Cameron and someone who should have 15-20 touches a game far more often.

[Bay Riffin 1,474]

On 1/22/2023 at 9:18 AM, Demongirl35 said:

I noticed that too when I went to training on the 9th of Jan. we lacked that last year after having it in 2021. Which I do get it, they did just win the premiership and it happens. 
This year we have a couple of players with points to prove/last crack at it 

Grundy - point to prove/at the back end of his career.

Schache- last chance at it. If this doesn’t work out for him he’s career is done. 

Melks- Last chance

Tomlinson - Last chance with us

Chandler-most likely last chance with us  

I know last year we had a few players in the same position but I don’t think the other players were really motivated but I think they’re hungry again. Lever looks like a man on a mission and he gets really annoyed when he stuffs up and you can see it in his face he wants to make up for a mistake and that’s just at training. May is an competitive beast and hates losing

Maxy looks to have found a new twinkle in his eye with Grundy’s inclusion. Tomlinson trained like a man that will not accept being in the 2’s anymore. JVR looked like a young man who knows it’s his time to shine. 
 

To me at training it was like they had last year off and they’ve missed it so much and never want to be away from footy again.. if that makes sense. 

 

 

I'm not sure I'm buying this revisionism. We came out and won the first 10 games in convincing fashion. I'ts not like we didn't hit the ground running. We were clearly the best side  in  the comp till the half way mark. 

A more likely argument would be we went too hard early and were phyicially spent by the end of the year compared to other sides. and that might be just one factor. 

[Deemania since 56 6,635]

On 1/22/2023 at 10:47 AM, dazzledavey36 said:

Would really liked to see Tomlinson trial as a  tall high half forward.

His endurance levels and work rate would easily blow up a lot of defenders which would be a huge strength to team structure.

I still reckon Tomlinson should get back on the wing - with his increased fitness (even greater running ability across a game), build and two seasons of decent backline skilling and nouse, and an increase in his professional footballing hunger, he - the space maker - is going to blossom as one of our greatest receivers and playmakers into the forward line. No kidding, I reckon he's got it and could very well bring it out this coming season. 

[binman 42,920]

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

I think we’ll see T Mc back as a pretty classic lead up CHF. With Schache purely for depth, he doesn’t have the speed or smarts to be Cameron. 

But with the resting ruck and likely one of JVR/BBB also up forward I’d be looking at Fritsch maturing and diversifying his game and moving from his stay at home role to mixing in a lot more high half forward. He’s the closest thing we’ve got to Cameron and someone who should have 15-20 touches a game far more often.

Yep, Fritter could def play that role. And may well do.

But it might be a rob Peter to pay Paul scenario.

Fritter has been our leading goal kicker in the last couple of seasons, and with Tmac is our most reliable set shot. If he were to play higher, we would have to find another player to kick those goals. Would JVR offer the same goal scoring ability?

[Adam The God 30,239]

On 1/21/2023 at 10:35 AM, Bombay Airconditioning said:

And so it should be, with the list in better shape than 2021. Possibly the best Melbourne team we will see in our lifetime. 
Hawks 3 in a row, Cats 3 in 5 years, Tigers 3 out of 4. We need more premierships to truly be considered a champion team.

I'd take 3 with this list and probably pull even with our arch enemies Collingwood on 15, 1 behind Carlton and Essendon.

Love it. Let's hope so.

[Adam The God 30,239]

On 1/21/2023 at 9:03 PM, Big Col said:

FWIW King has been on the Demons bandwagon for 18+ months. Mid season  2021 he compared the Demons to the emergence of the Cats in 2007. We won 1 flag. Let's hope we can win at least 3/5.

Not sure I agree with this. He had the Bulldogs as his favourites for the entirety of 2021. He'd bang on about it every week on that stupid Fox show.

He was on us in 2018, but was burnt.

On 1/22/2023 at 11:17 AM, dazzledavey36 said:

Would really liked to see Tomlinson trial as a  tall high half forward.

His endurance levels and work rate would easily blow up a lot of defenders which would be a huge strength to team structure.

In place of? I'm not against it, just trying to picture who he comes in for. Because you'll also have a lot of teams playing fast from half back, so do we want pace on the forward flanks to defend that or do we want endurance to hold our structures?

[rjay 24,919]

On 1/22/2023 at 11:17 AM, dazzledavey36 said:

Would really liked to see Tomlinson trial as a  tall high half forward.

His endurance levels and work rate would easily blow up a lot of defenders which would be a huge strength to team structure.

I think Tommo is the classic almost footballer 'dazz'

Hasn't been able to nail down a position but been in the system coming up 11 seasons.

Turning 30 later in the season, I guess it's now or never for him.

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,391]

My pre season intensity went up a few notch’s last night. My wife booked plane tickets to Melbourne for 

rd 3 Swans

rd 6 Tigers

rd 12 Pies

Can’t wait!

[old dee 23,788]

7 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

My pre season intensity went up a few notch’s last night. My wife booked plane tickets to Melbourne for 

rd 3 Swans

rd 6 Tigers

rd 12 Pies

Can’t wait!

I hope they weren't on Qantas!

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,391]

51 minutes ago, old dee said:

I hope they weren't on Qantas!

Virgin and Jetstar. Jetstar are not without their own problems at times too but I’ve found on the flight heading to my destination I book the earliest flight, I’ve never had issues doing this and if something does come up I’ve got options. Coming back doesn’t bother me….

[DubDee 25,854]

Anyone that reckons Tommo can play fwd or wing, needs to re-watch the games when he played there.  He's been tried many times at Giants and with us.  He can only run in straight lines.  He is a decent/good backman and that's it imo