TRAINING: Friday 16th December 2022

[Whispering_Jack 29,928]

1 hour ago, defuture15 said:

Are they creating a Tomahawk? That would be the monster forward we need

I think you’re onto something but you could have the wrong player. See my post above about the Herald Sun article written by Glenn McFarlane. The “untried player” who is practicing the craft of ruckwork against two of the AFL’s elite ruckmen is the one I think the club could have in mind for a Tomahawk role.

[rjay 24,910]

38 minutes ago, Whispering_Jack said:

I think you’re onto something but you could have the wrong player. See my post above about the Herald Sun article written by Glenn McFarlane. The “untried player” who is practicing the craft of ruckwork against two of the AFL’s elite ruckmen is the one I think the club could have in mind for a Tomahawk role.

He did the Tomahawk a few times at Casey this year, a work in progress...

[jayceebee31 760]

4 hours ago, rjay said:

He did the Tomahawk a few times at Casey this year, a work in progress...

He certainly did, and looked very impressive….smart football brain.

[deejammin' 2,370]

15 hours ago, rjay said:

He did the Tomahawk a few times at Casey this year, a work in progress...

I think we have different ideas of what “doing a Tomahawk” is. For me it’s sniping players faces with your elbow and pushing opponents in the back. Are we hoping Schache or JVR will do this or are you thinking of something else? 😈😈

[Whispering_Jack 29,928]

33 minutes ago, deejammin' said:

I think we have different ideas of what “doing a Tomahawk” is. For me it’s sniping players faces with your elbow and pushing opponents in the back. Are we hoping Schache or JVR will do this or are you thinking of something else? 😈😈

Tomahawk is known for his ability to take on the forward pocket ruck duels for the Cats and for initiating or kicking goals as a result. His strike rate is excellent and I'm not talking about the same form of striking that you're thinking about.

JvR did help out in the ruck this year at Casey but the fact that he's doing it at preseason training against the likes of G & G suggests that he might be called upon to do that this year - hopefully at the higher level. I wouldn't be expecting TMac to do any ruckwork because of the history he has with his foot.

[jnrmac 20,055]

1 minute ago, Whispering_Jack said:

Tomahawk is known for his ability to take on the forward pocket ruck duels for the Cats and for initiating or kicking goals as a result. His strike rate is excellent and I'm not talking about the same form of striking that you're thinking about.

JvR did help out in the ruck this year at Casey but the fact that he's doing it at preseason training against the likes of G & G suggests that he might be called upon to do that this year - hopefully at the higher level. I wouldn't be expecting TMac to do any ruckwork because of the history he has with his foot.

He is a cheat with his pushing and rarely gets called out

[jnrmac 20,055]

On 12/16/2022 at 3:18 PM, JimmyGadson said:

Great reports, I agree that I don't want to see Max playing much forward next year. He is so much more valuable behind the ball and the team functions infinitely better.

He heavily influences decision making at the top too much for my liking. As a forward he is average and we all know why.

Ben Brown, Tom Mac and Fritsch are more than enough to deal with.

And as for Gus, I genuinely think he's come back out of condition and they're building him back up. Looks like he's put on weight imo.

I think they will be copying Geelong with Blicavs and Stanley where Max takes the ruck and heads to CHB while Grundy rucks around the ground - his mobility is very good.

[JimmyGadson 3,455]

1 hour ago, jnrmac said:

I think they will be copying Geelong with Blicavs and Stanley where Max takes the ruck and heads to CHB while Grundy rucks around the ground - his mobility is very good.

I sure hope so. 

[Demonland 71,868]

On 12/20/2022 at 10:11 AM, Whispering_Jack said:

Tomahawk is known for his ability to take on the forward pocket ruck duels for the Cats and for initiating or kicking goals as a result. His strike rate is excellent and I'm not talking about the same form of striking that you're thinking about.

JvR did help out in the ruck this year at Casey but the fact that he's doing it at preseason training against the likes of G & G suggests that he might be called upon to do that this year - hopefully at the higher level. I wouldn't be expecting TMac to do any ruckwork because of the history he has with his foot.

I think it's important to note that the ruck duels that both JVR and Schache were given the daunting task of going up against Gawn and Grundy were boundary throw in drills. Despite the fact that these throw ins were initiated from the back flack area the tutelage was no doubt for the work they will have to do in the forward pocket against A and B grade rucks.

TMac and Brown were not involved in these same drills. No doubt JVR and Schache are initially being given the Weid role and will work up from there.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,731]

3 hours ago, jnrmac said:

He is a cheat with his pushing and rarely gets called out

Then, by definition, he's not a cheat. If he were, he would have free kicks paid against him all the time. 

Let's not use words like "cheat" unfairly. It maligns the character of individuals in any walk of life to use emotive words like "cheat" or "liar" unless they actually are proven to be so.

[Tim 3,418]

1 hour ago, Whispering_Jack said:

Tomahawk is known for his ability to take on the forward pocket ruck duels for the Cats and for initiating or kicking goals as a result. His strike rate is excellent and I'm not talking about the same form of striking that you're thinking about.

Twice in the first quarter in the Granny against Hickey.

[ManDee 7,134]

4 hours ago, Whispering_Jack said:

Tomahawk is known for his ability to take on the forward pocket ruck duels for the Cats and for initiating or kicking goals as a result. His strike rate is excellent and I'm not talking about the same form of striking that you're thinking about.

JvR did help out in the ruck this year at Casey but the fact that he's doing it at preseason training against the likes of G & G suggests that he might be called upon to do that this year - hopefully at the higher level. I wouldn't be expecting TMac to do any ruckwork because of the history he has with his foot.

Too much credit for Hawkins, Schwarz was the best I have seen in that role. So can we call it  Schwarta?

[sue 9,099]

40 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Then, by definition, he's not a cheat. If he were, he would have free kicks paid against him all the time. 

Let's not use words like "cheat" unfairly. It maligns the character of individuals in any walk of life to use emotive words like "cheat" or "liar" unless they actually are proven to be so.

You're right. The cheats are back at AFL headquarters.

[layzie 33,791]

3 hours ago, ManDee said:

Too much credit for Hawkins, Schwarz was the best I have seen in that role. So can we call it  Schwarta?

Ox was brilliant in that role! Put so much into it 

[dazzledavey36 54,763]

7 minutes ago, layzie said:

Ox was brilliant in that role! Put so much into it 

You're right.

Ox was elite at this. His body use around boundary throw ins inside forward 50 was pretty impressive. 

[Demonland 71,868]

3 hours ago, layzie said:

Ox was brilliant in that role! Put so much into it 

Not exactly the ruckman in this throw in but …

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,806]

13 minutes ago, Demonland said:

Not exactly the ruckman in this throw in but …

Schwartz was an absolute star.  If only we'd been able to have a complete side around him and he'd stayed fit he could have been the goat for the MFC.

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,806]

8 hours ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Then, by definition, he's not a cheat. If he were, he would have free kicks paid against him all the time. 

Let's not use words like "cheat" unfairly. It maligns the character of individuals in any walk of life to use emotive words like "cheat" or "liar" unless they actually are proven to be so.

For the most part, I think Tomahawk is an amazing player and he deserves to be reconsised as such, but he's also a dirty cheat.  Happens too often and the fact the AFL makes allowances for him that they don't for other players is a disgrace. 

His clumsy wirly bird arms everywhere effort that broke Steve May's face wouldn't have been allowed for any other player.  FFS, tiny Chandler fell forward into a guys back accidently and got rubbed out for matches.

Blatently pushing guys in the back etc and winning games off the back of it is cheating.

That the AFL are weak as and consistently let him get away with it isn't the point.

Stop making excuses for him.

Edited December 20, 2022 by Rodney (Balls) Grinter

[IRW 1,387]

Just now, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

For the most part, I think Tomahawk is an amazing player and he deserves to be reconsised as such, but he's also a dirty cheat.  Happens too often and the fact the AFL makes allowances for him that they don't for other players is a disgrace. 

His clumsy wirly bird arms everywhere effort that broke Steve May's face wouldn't have been allowed for any other player.  FFS, Chandler fell forward into a guys back accidently and got rubbed out for matches.

Blatently pushing guys in the back etc and winning games off the back of it is cheating.

That the AFL are weak as and consistently let him get away with it isn't the point.

Stop making excuses for him.

I dislike him but that's just a ridulous assertion.

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,806]

1 minute ago, IRW said:

I dislike him but that's just a ridulous assertion.

I don't dislike him that much, but I still think he's a cheat.  To knowingly keep breaking the rules based on knowing what you can get away with is the very definition of cheating if you ask me.

[Palace Dees 2,311]

10 minutes ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

I don't dislike him that much, but I still think he's a cheat.  To knowingly keep breaking the rules based on knowing what you can get away with is the very definition of cheating if you ask me.

The reason Geelong are so disliked is because the AFL for years have not enforced their own rules. Duckwood created a whole generation of duckers, arm raisers and knee droppers that were continually rewarded. Fortunately there seems to be some addressing of it this year, despite the persecution 'outcry' with Ginnivan. But it is a mess the AFL created through neglect.

Unfortunately the blatant back shoves that Tomahawk does are laughingly described as 'strength' and don't get penalised. No other team I can think of has had 2 players who have got away with football murder for 15 years.

Fortunately one has now gone and the other is surely one or two years maximum away from retirement.  Maybe then we'll have a level playing field.

 

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,731]

Just to explore this idea of "cheating" a bit more, it seems that some people believe that players who successfully exploit the rules and the way the game is umpired (as has been suggested about Hawkins and Selwood in this thread) are "cheating". Kevin Bartlett made it an art-form to bounce the ball in front of him just before he was about to be tackled to earn a free kick for holding the man. That was using the rules (as they then were) to his advantage. Was that also cheating?

[Sydee 4,406]

10 hours ago, Palace Dees said:

The reason Geelong are so disliked is because the AFL for years have not enforced their own rules. Duckwood created a whole generation of duckers, arm raisers and knee droppers that were continually rewarded. Fortunately there seems to be some addressing of it this year, despite the persecution 'outcry' with Ginnivan. But it is a mess the AFL created through neglect.

Unfortunately the blatant back shoves that Tomahawk does are laughingly described as 'strength' and don't get penalised. No other team I can think of has had 2 players who have got away with football murder for 15 years.

Fortunately one has now gone and the other is surely one or two years maximum away from retirement.  Maybe then we'll have a level playing field.

 

Nope - we will still be sent down to Mordor every year while other Melbourne based teams do not

I'd rather Hawkins play in perpetuity than be screwed over by the AFL fixture every season 

[58er 6,420]

On 12/19/2022 at 3:56 PM, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Top priority this one.  Also, who is the one that we are training up as an understudy to Hibbo for this role as part of future succession plan?

Reckon Riv has the size strength and pace to go with mids and smalls of the opposition. He is a big unit now but not  sure his one on one skills will match Hibbo's. 

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,806]

1 hour ago, 58er said:

Reckon Riv has the size strength and pace to go with mids and smalls of the opposition. He is a big unit now but not  sure his one on one skills will match Hibbo's. 

I was more meaning the sprint with premership cup duties, but Riv probably has the right attitude and flare for that too, so your right, maybe he's Pig Mk II all round!