Saints Sack Ratten & Appoint Lyon as Coach

[Melbournepotter 378]

4 hours ago, Queanbeyan Demon said:

FMD - did anyone listen to his 'special comments' on the AFLW yesterday?

I did, and for St Kilda's sake, I hope he coaches better than he commentates. Not that he was alone there, the other commentators were also abysmal.

[redandbluemakepurple 358]

Don't knock Da Boss's negative game-plan.  Trainwrecks are so much groovier in slow-motion.

Wikipedia reckons that Max King achieved an 97.8 ATAR.  He might like being pushed around by Ross.  Gives us a couple years to come up with a nickname.  Possibly, Max Power (thanks Homer) or Plastic (best keep that to ourselves until he signs).

 

[dee-tox 4,835]

Plenty of criticism here on Lyon. Understandable given the circumstances of Ratten going and Lyon's perhaps divisive personality.

One thing he is criticised unfairly for is his coaching. His record is excellent and in many ways he is a pioneer of forward pressure and defensive midfield zoning. This is also a feature of Goodwin's coaching and most current coaches. 

Coaching the Saints to consecutive grand finals and Freo to their first is a remarkable effort. 

It's all well and good to be parochial in our dislike of everything that isnt Melbourne, but we shouldn't lose sight of the fact, that Lyon has been a very good coach for more than a decade.

 

Edited October 24, 2022 by dee-tox

[Wells 11 5,377]

3 hours ago, dee-tox said:

Plenty of criticism here on Lyon. Understandable given the circumstances of Ratten going and Lyon's perhaps divisive personality.

One thing he is criticised unfairly for is his coaching. His record is excellent and in many ways he is a pioneer of forward pressure and defensive midfield zoning. This is also a feature of Goodwin's coaching and most current coaches. 

Coaching the Saints to consecutive grand finals and Freo to their first is a remarkable effort. 

It's all well and good to be parochial in our dislike of everything that isnt Melbourne, but we shouldn't lose sight of the fact, that Lyon has been a very good coach for more than a decade.

 

Yep I agree, unlucky to not be a premiership coach . I think he’ll bring the best out of the group. But just how good the group can be I have my doubts over.

The way they went about the coaching change was so obviously shambolic and reminds me of the dees of yesteryear. I don’t wish them ill over at saintland but I’m very frikn glad the dees are no longer there. 

[Demon17 5,186]

5 hours ago, dee-tox said:

Plenty of criticism here on Lyon. Understandable given the circumstances of Ratten going and Lyon's perhaps divisive personality.

One thing he is criticised unfairly for is his coaching. His record is excellent and in many ways he is a pioneer of forward pressure and defensive midfield zoning. This is also a feature of Goodwin's coaching and most current coaches. 

Coaching the Saints to consecutive grand finals and Freo to their first is a remarkable effort. 

It's all well and good to be parochial in our dislike of everything that isnt Melbourne, but we shouldn't lose sight of the fact, that Lyon has been a very good coach for more than a decade.

 

Great summary of Lyon and esp about Lyon not being responsible for the Ratten decision.

The Board endorsed Ratten 10 weeks before sacking him.  And clearly from Basset's mealy-mouthed answers at yesterday's presser he was 'aware' Lyon was gettable so they may have pulled the trigger on that data. But he might have had deniabilty on talking to Lyon pre-Ratten sacking by  using 3rd party info . 

Shocking work by the Saints Board.

Lyon may suceed, who knows, but culture trumps everything else so let's see.

 

[640MD 3,355]

I have my opinions that I try to keep to myself but the continual degrading of players, ours and others, past and present worries me.

coaches are a bit different, more like paid employees or hired guns. 
 

I do feel sorry for the saints supporters who are in for a lot of pain.  My old mate Phil in particular.
Apart from the little old lady that hit me on the head with her umbrella about 40 years ago at Moorabbin. 
Perhaps I did not have a lot of couth when I was younger. I might have deserved it.

 

[dazzledavey36 54,215]

11 hours ago, Jontee said:

With talk of Harvey and Hayes and Goddard joining the team.....I dont think that is a good idea.  (You fellas are hopeless but we were champs)

Bringing back people who've never tasted or been part of success.

Interesting. 

[Demonland 71,271]

 

[layzie 33,741]

I feel like more St Kilda fans than neutrals are pumped about the Lyon appointment.

Edited October 25, 2022 by layzie

[Demonland 71,271]

[1964_2 2,357]

11 hours ago, Demon17 said:

Great summary of Lyon and esp about Lyon not being responsible for the Ratten decision.

The Board endorsed Ratten 10 weeks before sacking him.  And clearly from Basset's mealy-mouthed answers at yesterday's presser he was 'aware' Lyon was gettable so they may have pulled the trigger on that data. But he might have had deniabilty on talking to Lyon pre-Ratten sacking by  using 3rd party info . 

Shocking work by the Saints Board.

Lyon may suceed, who knows, but culture trumps everything else so let's see.

 

Bassat, a very successful man. And full respect to him. 

But I would put his voice in the top 5 most annoying voices of all time. 
 

[durango 2,004]

Although the saints think Lyon is the messiah I believe even God would have trouble winning a premiership with the current crop of saints players unless he gave them wings.

[dee-tox 4,835]

6 hours ago, durango said:

Although the saints think Lyon is the messiah I believe even God would have trouble winning a premiership with the current crop of saints players unless he gave them wings.

Lyon was able to turn the likes of Robert Eddy,  Zac Dawson, Brett Peake, James Gwilt, Andrew McQualter, Clint Jones, etc. into decent foot soldiers. No reason he can't do it again.

[John Demonic 5,744]

8 hours ago, 1964_2 said:

Bassat, a very successful man. And full respect to him. 

But I would put his voice in the top 5 most annoying voices of all time. 
 

I can still hear him say 'time' with the elongated 'i' in his posh voice in my head  

[Orion 332]

Apparently after this year's Grand Final some bloke said to Lyon "Dangerfield's played in as many finals as St Kilda has in its history"  Lyon was really annoyed by the comment and was the catalyst for his return to coaching

[Demon17 5,186]

19 hours ago, 1964_2 said:

Bassat, a very successful man. And full respect to him. 

But I would put his voice in the top 5 most annoying voices of all time. 
 

That's what surprised me the most. Knowing Bassat's record , he puts in a shocker at the Presser.

[Monbon 1,840]

On 10/25/2022 at 8:24 AM, 640MD said:

I have my opinions that I try to keep to myself but the continual degrading of players, ours and others, past and present worries me.

coaches are a bit different, more like paid employees or hired guns. 
 

I do feel sorry for the saints supporters who are in for a lot of pain.  My old mate Phil in particular.
Apart from the little old lady that hit me on the head with her umbrella about 40 years ago at Moorabbin. 
Perhaps I did not have a lot of couth when I was younger. I might have deserved it.

 

Does Phil's surname start with M, a Carnegie lad?

[640MD 3,355]

1 hour ago, Monbon said:

Does Phil's surname start with M, a Carnegie lad?

No     C,    led their cheer squad  in the early 70's  most of my friends at that time were in various cheer squads,  and he at that time was Doncaster way.   Carlton, Collingwood, Richmond, Melbourne, Hawthorn, Saints, Geelong,       South Melb and Fitzroy from memory had low numbers,                  long time ago now my memory is terrible,  cannot remember north, essendon or the dogs

 

at least I can still try to remember, a lot from that group failed to reach 60.   anuther flag please  before i forget again.

[Little Goffy 14,442]

14 hours ago, dee-tox said:

Lyon was able to turn the likes of Robert Eddy,  Zac Dawson, Brett Peake, James Gwilt, Andrew McQualter, Clint Jones, etc. into decent foot soldiers. No reason he can't do it again.

Yep, even if it is annoying for the overall effect on the game, Lyon was an early master of the art of getting the most out of unexceptional players through sheer fitness and well-drilled plans.

I'd argue, though, that both during his previous run at St Kilda and at Fremantle, Lyon was able to make that work thanks to having some of the most outstanding individual players in the game at the time.

With all respect to Jack Steele who is an absolute first-rate player, and to Max King who looks like he'll spend a lot of his career in Coleman Medal contention, there just isn't anyone at the Saints now who can really cut a game open or make the whole structure work through them.

Nobody would doubt for a second that Ratten would have taken the Saints routinely into finals if he could add Fyfe and Pavlich or Riewoldt and Goddard (peak Goddard, to be sure) to the Saint's list which he managed to extract a 50% win rate out of.

I think Ratten coached the Saints very well, as he did at Carlton. Lyon isn't necessarily a better coach and may yet find himself on a similar trajectory to Malthouse given the brittleness inherent in how he came (back) to the club.

[monoccular 17,413]

Has there been any news on whether Rattan has found any footy employment for 2023?  Do we have any assistant midfield coaching vacancies (or restructuring)?

[Demonland 71,271]

 

[bing181 9,193]

Getting the band back together. Misson knows his stuff, good move for the Saints, though shame it didn't work out for Misson and his family in Canada.

[DeezNuts 624]

Lyon clearly knows his stuff, particularly in relation to our Lyon…

[Deemania since 56 6,607]

On 10/14/2022 at 5:07 PM, Gawndy the Great said:

In all seriousness the picture of the state on the guernsey is cringe. 

 

I rather like the 'little map of Tasmania'.

[DubDee 25,533]

Misson Impossible