1 minute ago, Lord Travis said:

Ok that makes sense thanks. So further up the ground, not inside 50 then. That is still surprising, but disappointing to see such a low success rate from him. He's definitely out of form, but frustratingly we lack quality tall forward depth. A lot of that failure is on the delivery to him also. With the ball being bombed long or moved slowly, it makes it harder for him to have it kicked to his advantage. It's a problem all over the field though, not just forward. The synergy is just not there and needs to be found in the month to come or we'll struggle come finals time.

The bombing is a problem, but IMO it's not all on the mids. Our forward structure is a bit of a mess and Brown plays his part in that. He is not moving well this year, struggles to lead or find any space. We need to look at the delivery for sure, but part of that is often when our mids look up to deliver inside 50 they just have flat footed targets not giving them anything.

I said before the game we shouldn’t have played Brown on a 5 day break.

He’s battling to run games out and being asked to do a mountain of work in the smaller line up. He’s having to crash packs at CHF and then get back inside 50.

JVR gives us the 2nd tall forward, which means will can limit Brown’s minutes (and Gawn and Jackson for that matter). And JVR gives us the mobility to get up the ground and chase that Weid doesn’t. 

4 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

I definitely think we need another experienced tall, but is there anyone out there that's available and out of contract?

I do love Mitch Lewis from the Hawks but he doesn't come out of contract until 2023.

Only mature option with decent experience might be Tex.  Im not up with draft/free agency side though so no point me commenting here.

I like Lewis also.  Was impressive against us earlier this year when watching live.  Gave Smith a bit of a towelling and appears to have the smarts of a dangerous forward.  Pretty quick off the mark and strong overhead.  Very confident young fella.  Hawks might have found a good one.

39 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

I said before the game we shouldn’t have played Brown on a 5 day break.

He’s battling to run games out and being asked to do a mountain of work in the smaller line up. He’s having to crash packs at CHF and then get back inside 50.

JVR gives us the 2nd tall forward, which means will can limit Brown’s minutes (and Gawn and Jackson for that matter). And JVR gives us the mobility to get up the ground and chase that Weid doesn’t. 

Agree with most of what you've said except that BBB had to play, or we may have been out of the game by half time without him. He's clearly been better in the 1st half, and tires in the 2nd. You can put that down to T Mac's absence, and Jackson being largely ineffective as a forward all year. BBB has to bear all the opposition attention.

@demoncat You're right. I totally disagree that Weid has the size and strength to attract the second defender. That's his biggest weakness aside from marking.  

 I think JVR at this point is a better footballer than Weid, and if selected, he won't have to do much to prove it. 

The final goal that JVR kicked for Casey sums up what I've being seeing all year. In a contested marking situation, JVR is sitting perfectly in line with the flight of the ball. Look where Weid comes from, and he almost spoilt JVR.

4 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

I definitely think we need another experienced tall, but is there anyone out there that's available and out of contract?

I do love Mitch Lewis from the Hawks but he doesn't come out of contract until 2023.

Lewis is a very solid KPF, however he signed a long extension last month and will be a Hawk until 2027. Obviously a key pillar in Hawks rebuild and doubtful he'd be an option. Would also cost a first rounder we don't have.

19 minutes ago, Lord Travis said:

Lewis is a very solid KPF, however he signed a long extension last month and will be a Hawk until 2027. Obviously a key pillar in Hawks rebuild and doubtful he'd be an option. Would also cost a first rounder we don't have.

Bugger. Wasn't aware of that.

2 hours ago, loges said:

Sorry, how long ago was that ?

Fair cop,  but JVR hasn't made a game yet. Why don't we wait for some DH smart [censored] to come down and interview him and ask why he can't get a game. 

5 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

I definitely think we need another experienced tall, but is there anyone out there that's available and out of contract?

I do love Mitch Lewis from the Hawks but he doesn't come out of contract until 2023.

McStay
Gunston

E. Himmelberg
James Stewart
Shannon Neale
Chris Burgess
Josh Corbett
Wade Derksen
 

19 minutes ago, willmoy said:

Fair cop,  but JVR hasn't made a game yet. Why don't we wait for some DH smart [censored] to come down and interview him and ask why he can't get a game. 

????

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

McStay
Gunston

E. Himmelberg
James Stewart
Shannon Neale
Chris Burgess
Josh Corbett
Wade Derksen
 

Sean Darcy (Jackson)

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

McStay
Gunston

E. Himmelberg
James Stewart
Shannon Neale
Chris Burgess
Josh Corbett
Wade Derksen
 

I was talking good players..

9 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

BEN BROWN

Ben Brown has been targeted inside 50m one-on-one 45 times this season. He has taken one mark from those battles — a junk-time grab on Marcus Adams (Lions) late in the fourth quarter. He has been out-marked eight times. The Demons don’t trust Sam Weideman or Mitch Brown and so it’s a mighty concern for Melbourne as the absence of Tom McDonald — the swingman they attempted to offload in 2020 — aches. On Thursday night the Dees took six marks inside 50m, their equal fewest this season, and the disconnection is also disarming Kozzie Pickett and Charlie Spargo while Bayley Fritsch has been accused of being goal hungry. Contrast Brown’s numbers to Geelong goliath Tom Hawkins, who gobbles 38 per cent of his one-on-ones. The next best in the AFL is Darcy Cameron (Collingwood), who marks 25 per cent of his one-on-ones.

Early Tackle: Sam Landsberger’s Likes and Dislikes from round 17

Where is this stat? just interested.

2 minutes ago, demon3165 said:

Where is this stat? just interested.

Assume it's from somewhere in Champion Data. Not sure if us nuffs have access or you have to be in the media/AFL industry.

40 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Assume it's from somewhere in Champion Data. Not sure if us nuffs have access or you have to be in the media/AFL industry.

So if this info is accessible and therefore known by opposition teams, then its fascinating to see how opposition FD's  set up structures when they play the Dees...

I'd give my left [censored]* for easily accessible data like this.

*ha, I used a word not dissimilar to tentacle, and I was still censored... dial it down a bit @Demonland 🤙

 

Edited July 11, 20223 yr by Engorged Onion

5 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

The bombing is a problem, but IMO it's not all on the mids. Our forward structure is a bit of a mess and Brown plays his part in that. He is not moving well this year, struggles to lead or find any space. We need to look at the delivery for sure, but part of that is often when our mids look up to deliver inside 50 they just have flat footed targets not giving them anything.

I'm not sure that he was ever a great one on one contested mark but was excellent on the lead due to his height....but I reckon good key backmen have him worked out. This year I've noticed his opponent make strong side-on contact early in the lead which throws him off balance. Rather than change direction and offer a different option he gives up on the lead altogether and ends up flat-footed. 

22 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

And to clarify, I rate him as a player, I just wanna find a way to get him in form for finals.

I thought he showed a bit early against the Cats. We’re short on options so being our best option he’s going to have to find it on the run, along with a few others and the team as a whole.

Weid will be successful at a club who has more aggressive ball movement and he can lead into space and mark.

The MFC game plan does not suit him as he just can’t take a contested mark often enough. 

Edited July 11, 20223 yr by CYB

3 minutes ago, CYB said:

Weid will be successful at a club who has more aggressive ball movement anywhere he can lead into space and mark.

The MFC game plan does not suit him as he just can’t take a contested mark a often enough. 

Club like Hawthorn who have a similar game plan as you suggested.

8 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

I thought he showed a bit early against the Cats. We’re short on options so being our best option he’s going to have to find it on the run, along with a few others and the team as a whole.

I was pumped after the first quarter - he was covering the ground well, taking contested marks, all a bit higher up the ground but it seemed to bode well for his form. Then he just totally disappeared by half time and didn't take another mark for the whole game.

Gut feel is Goody will persevere with him, but just me personally I'm not convinced he's going to find consistent form struggling to get a touch at AFL level every week. Most likely option seems to be one of JVR or Weid comes in this week to give him better support.

Still thinking about it. 

I've been toying with the idea of deciding and sharing now so it's early enough in the week for people to forget if I'm wrong or sharing right before the teams are announced so I can look like a genius if correct.  

Not sure JVR has the tank to play the TMac role just yet but we might be forced to find out. If we want to to get back to the structure that won us a flag, 2 talls and a resting ruck forward, we could try giving Weid a couple of weeks in the resting ruck role and challenge Jackson to play as a permanent forward in the TMac role. Jackson has the tank to get up the ground and is a better contested grab than Tmac. Gawn plays full time ruck with Weid giving him a chop out for 5 minutes a quarter. Gawn can park himself behind the ball and mark everything.  

Speaking of T Mac, anything, anyone

Rooy. Nothing ventured, nothing gained 

He needs to play at some stage so give him a taste and see how he goes. Just don't place too much expectation on the kid. 

7 hours ago, CYB said:

Weid will be successful at a club who has more aggressive ball movement and he can lead into space and mark.

The MFC game plan does not suit him as he just can’t take a contested mark often enough. 

The days of Pagan's Paddock are over. I can't name any decent key forward who solely relies on space to lead. That's not how the game is played. Regardless of that, I don't think that Weid reads the game well enough. His poor positioning is one of the reason why he's a poor contested mark. 

I think the match committee would be more forgiving of Weid if he stood under the ball in contested marking situations, like BBB and T Mac. 

I can't see any other club pursuing him.