Weid or Rooy?

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,395]

Only 6 weeks to go in the H & A season, we know what we get with Weid and M Brown, I’d be giving JVR a three week stint to see how he goes. He could be just what we need. We still have the no.1 ranked defence in the comp, the best ruck combo, top 3 midfield   (if not the best, but not on current rankings), but our fwd line is the concern. From watching the Casey highlights he can take a grab and is a reasonable kick, it’s not like he’s being played rd.1. 

[Willmoy1947 4,086]

You blokes are aware that Weideman has played a couple of good winning Finals. This young Van Rooyen fellow comes into the serious end of the season, big call I reckon.

[The heart beats true 18,123]

1 minute ago, Lord Nev said:

Because he's taken 1 mark from 45 one on ones. Simple.

You’re measuring him against a metric that isn’t how I measure his value, or what he was brought into the side to do.

Anyways let’s agree to disagree, but with us both understanding that actually I’m right 🤣

[Lord Nev 13,512]

1 minute ago, The heart beats true said:

You’re measuring him against a metric that isn’t how I measure his value, or what he was brought into the side to do.

Anyways let’s agree to disagree, but with us both understanding that actually I’m right 🤣

Haha that's a more than reasonable call for a Monday morning. Cheers mate!

[Rab D Nesbitt 8,367]

JVR will be the replacement for T-Mac in time. The latter might be injured at present but JVR might still be a little raw to fill his boots just yet. In the meantime it's a discussion about whether we use Weideman or Bedford depending on whether we want a taller or smaller forward line on a given week. I wouldn't be dropping Ben Brown. 

[Fat Tony 5,230]

40 minutes ago, demoncat said:

It is still beyond me why people are calling for Brown to be dropped. Yes he has underperformed over the past month or so - but this is largely due to the fact that he has been missing the vital blocking and support that TMac provides. This is especially the case when our strategy of bombing it down the line results in our talls getting double and triple teamed by opposition defenders. Brown played his best footy in weeks in the first half against Geelong and he is too important to our structure to drop.

Regarding Weid or JVR, for me it really comes down to how Goody and co. are viewing Weid and his position at the club. If they have faith that he can still become a best 22 forward - whether it is this year or next - they play him. However, if he still hasn't shown enough to warrant selection - especially when we were so exposed for height last week - we go JVR and I think that all but spells the end for Weid's time at the club, at least as anything more than a depth VFL player.

 

Ben Brown was poor before TMac was injured. He needs to start clunking marks and kicking goals because he is a liability defensively and when the ball is on the deck and he picks and chooses when to put his body on the line.

There is a massive gap between AFL defence and VFL, both in terms of quality of defender and the team defence aspect. I think Weideman is likely to be a better bet this year given his stronger body and experience, but you have to trust the coaches. If van Rooyen plays this year at all it will need to be soon.  

[demoncat 1,437]

17 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Mate, read the first line again. It's very specifically about how poor he's been in one on ones. 1 mark from 45 one on ones, out marked 8 times from those. That has nothing to do with TMac and nothing to do with being out numbered.

Brown should wear his fair share for his lack of marks on the lead too, I've watched him closely at the games I've gone to and he simply does not lead and can not find a way to get around a defender. Bombing it forward is not all the mids fault.

Apologies mate, it's been a slow start to the morning 😅 You're right to point out his poor performance in one-on-one situations.

[Lord Nev 13,512]

Just now, demoncat said:

Apologies mate, it's been a slow start to the morning 😅 You're right to point out his poor performance in one-on-one situations.

And to clarify, I rate him as a player, I just wanna find a way to get him in form for finals.

[demoncat 1,437]

1 minute ago, Fat Tony said:

There is a massive gap between AFL defence and VFL, both in terms of quality of defender and the team defence aspect. I think Weideman is likely to be a better bet this year given his stronger body and experience, but you have to trust the coaches. If van Rooyen plays this year at all it will need to be soon.  

100% agree on this part. JVR looks like an exciting long term prospect but people shouldn't underestimate the jump between AFL and VFL, and I'd be more inclined to give him as long as he needs to develop before bringing him in. At the very least Weid has the size and strength to attract the second defender and compete (although I'm sure some will disagree with that last part).

[dazzledavey36 54,936]

Another genuine key forward in the draft is a must to partner up with Van Rooyen over the next few years.

If we aren't able to secure one early on the draft then Fletcher Hart who I've done some work with through the Murray Bushrangers would be someone I would be targeting in the mid to later on in the draft.

200cm 96kg key forward who is currently playing for the Allies in the under 18's championships.

Put on a stack of kilos in the off season which resulted in him being able to outsize his opponents more often. Good contested mark who has good work rate.

Was extremely close to being picked up in the mid season draft.

[Fat Tony 5,230]

10 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Another genuine key forward in the draft is a must to partner up with Van Rooyen over the next few years.

If we aren't able to secure one early on the draft then Fletcher Hart who I've done some work with through the Murray Bushrangers would be someone I would be targeting in the mid to later on in the draft.

200cm 96kg key forward who is currently playing for the Allies in the under 18's championships.

Put on a stack of kilos in the off season which resulted in him being able to outsize his opponents more often. Good contested mark who has good work rate.

Was extremely close to being picked up in the mid season draft.

Why does it have to be in the draft? The strike rate on key forwards with low picks is pretty poor and it does not suit our premiership window.

GCS picked up Chol (34 goals) and Casbault (27 goals) in free agency. GWS got Hogan (24 goals in 13 games) for nothing. Rory Lobb (29 goals) was available also.

We might get Taylor Walker, Lobb or Ratugolea this year.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

21 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Another genuine key forward in the draft is a must to partner up with Van Rooyen over the next few years.

If we aren't able to secure one early on the draft then Fletcher Hart who I've done some work with through the Murray Bushrangers would be someone I would be targeting in the mid to later on in the draft.

200cm 96kg key forward who is currently playing for the Allies in the under 18's championships.

Put on a stack of kilos in the off season which resulted in him being able to outsize his opponents more often. Good contested mark who has good work rate.

Was extremely close to being picked up in the mid season draft.

Sounds like a prospect dazzle.

Assuming we lose the Weid & Macca ....you don't think we are gonna need a more experienced tall clunker to act as the No.1 or No.2 ahead of JVR during his early years?

[layzie 33,801]

1 hour ago, Lord Nev said:

BEN BROWN

Ben Brown has been targeted inside 50m one-on-one 45 times this season. He has taken one mark from those battles — a junk-time grab on Marcus Adams (Lions) late in the fourth quarter. He has been out-marked eight times. The Demons don’t trust Sam Weideman or Mitch Brown and so it’s a mighty concern for Melbourne as the absence of Tom McDonald — the swingman they attempted to offload in 2020 — aches. On Thursday night the Dees took six marks inside 50m, their equal fewest this season, and the disconnection is also disarming Kozzie Pickett and Charlie Spargo while Bayley Fritsch has been accused of being goal hungry. Contrast Brown’s numbers to Geelong goliath Tom Hawkins, who gobbles 38 per cent of his one-on-ones. The next best in the AFL is Darcy Cameron (Collingwood), who marks 25 per cent of his one-on-ones.

Early Tackle: Sam Landsberger’s Likes and Dislikes from round 17

Certainly a lot worse in that department than I thought.

[dazzledavey36 54,936]

2 minutes ago, Demon Dynasty said:

Sounds like a prospect dazzle.

Assuming we lose the Weid & Macca ....you don't think we are gonna need a more experienced tall clunker to act as the No.1 or No.2 ahead of JVR during his early years?

I definitely think we need another experienced tall, but is there anyone out there that's available and out of contract?

I do love Mitch Lewis from the Hawks but he doesn't come out of contract until 2023.

[SFebes 4,884]

If Jackson goes home, I'd be pushing for Sean Darcy as part of that deal. Looks good forward and played as one as a junior apparently. 

[Stiff Arm 4,419]

Don't think Brown should be dropped, not without Tmac in the side.

Brown needs more support and better kicks coming into 50, not long bombs on top of his head

If JVR comes in, I'd have Max playing majority as a forward so JVR takes the 3rd best defender, otherwise he'll get slaughtered. Dogga rucks 70-80%

Happy for JVR to be given a game over Weid if they think he's ready

Also give Kossie spells in the middle, get him involved more

[Willmoy1947 4,086]

23 minutes ago, SFebes said:

If Jackson goes home, I'd be pushing for Sean Darcy as part of that deal. Looks good forward and played as one as a junior apparently. 

Get rid of the puppy fat, yep

[one_demon 826]

1 hour ago, Fat Tony said:

There is a massive gap between AFL defence and VFL

That's been the concern for me with Van Rooyen, but sometimes you just have to throw them in and see what happens 

I like the idea of Jackson rucking more and Gawn playing  forward more, that would make it a bit easier for Van Rooyen because Gawn would attract the better defender.  Plus Gawn is an excellent mark and a very good set shot.  We have to try something different.

Edited July 11, 2022 by one_demon

[TheWiz 766]

3 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

Bonus points for Linus crossover 

[Gorgoroth 12,950]

3 hours ago, 4_Kent_Watts said:

Brizzy barracker reckons Tomlinson needs to be played in the forward line. I'm not convinced. 

Nah at best thommo to CHB and Petty chf. But I’d prefer Disco to CHB and Petty forward if we don’t want to blood van Rooyen

[BScotti 178]

3 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

BEN BROWN

Ben Brown has been targeted inside 50m one-on-one 45 times this season. He has taken one mark from those battles — a junk-time grab on Marcus Adams (Lions) late in the fourth quarter. He has been out-marked eight times. The Demons don’t trust Sam Weideman or Mitch Brown and so it’s a mighty concern for Melbourne as the absence of Tom McDonald — the swingman they attempted to offload in 2020 — aches. On Thursday night the Dees took six marks inside 50m, their equal fewest this season, and the disconnection is also disarming Kozzie Pickett and Charlie Spargo while Bayley Fritsch has been accused of being goal hungry. Contrast Brown’s numbers to Geelong goliath Tom Hawkins, who gobbles 38 per cent of his one-on-ones. The next best in the AFL is Darcy Cameron (Collingwood), who marks 25 per cent of his one-on-ones.

Early Tackle: Sam Landsberger’s Likes and Dislikes from round 17

at the end of the day, alot of this has to come down to the coaches team selection as well as the consistently poor delivery by our superstar midfield into the forward line.  BB and Tmac had a good year last year because we delivered it to the forward line in an efficient way - not bomb it to packs (or just bomb it to the opposition). 

Also, we drop Weid after playing him as a FT Ruck?  He is not a Ruck - He is a key Fwd who can support in Ruck if needed.  Have to play him that way and give him a run at it.  Goody chose to play small this week - which backfired.  

Play Weid and BB, deliver the ball properly to them and I am pretty confident we wont be writing off these two.  

Deliver it properly, and they still dont deliver?  Well, Weid is at a new club next year and JVR becomes our man.  

 

[Lord Travis 10,730]

3 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

BEN BROWN

Ben Brown has been targeted inside 50m one-on-one 45 times this season. He has taken one mark from those battles — a junk-time grab on Marcus Adams (Lions) late in the fourth quarter. He has been out-marked eight times. The Demons don’t trust Sam Weideman or Mitch Brown and so it’s a mighty concern for Melbourne as the absence of Tom McDonald — the swingman they attempted to offload in 2020 — aches. On Thursday night the Dees took six marks inside 50m, their equal fewest this season, and the disconnection is also disarming Kozzie Pickett and Charlie Spargo while Bayley Fritsch has been accused of being goal hungry. Contrast Brown’s numbers to Geelong goliath Tom Hawkins, who gobbles 38 per cent of his one-on-ones. The next best in the AFL is Darcy Cameron (Collingwood), who marks 25 per cent of his one-on-ones.

Early Tackle: Sam Landsberger’s Likes and Dislikes from round 17

I fee like that stat is wrong. He took more contested marks than that in the first quarter lone the other night! Or were they further up the ground or winning 1 vs 2 or pack situations (even harder lol). Regardless he's definitely not in form, but that stat seems off.

Back on topic, Weid has the runs on the board and has held his own at AFL before, even excelling in finals 2018. As well as JVR is going in the VFL, Weid is going just as well, and mostly better, so even on form Weid gets the nod. As exciting as JVR is, and I think he'll be our best key forward long term, it's probably not the right time to blood a kid in a tall forward position. 

[loges 6,767]

3 hours ago, willmoy said:

You blokes are aware that Weideman has played a couple of good winning Finals. This young Van Rooyen fellow comes into the serious end of the season, big call I reckon.

Sorry, how long ago was that ?

[Lord Nev 13,512]

9 minutes ago, Lord Travis said:

I fee like that stat is wrong. He took more contested marks than that in the first quarter lone the other night! Or were they further up the ground or winning 1 vs 2 or pack situations (even harder lol). Regardless he's definitely not in form, but that stat seems off.

Only took 1 mark inside 50 against Geelong.

It's not a 'contested mark' stat, it's how many marks he's taken when one on one inside 50 and has the ball kicked to him.

[Lord Travis 10,730]

23 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Only took 1 mark inside 50 against Geelong.

It's not a 'contested mark' stat, it's how many marks he's taken when one on one inside 50 and has the ball kicked to him.

Ok that makes sense thanks. So further up the ground, not inside 50 then. That is still surprising, but disappointing to see such a low success rate from him. He's definitely out of form, but frustratingly we lack quality tall forward depth. A lot of that failure is on the delivery to him also. With the ball being bombed long or moved slowly, it makes it harder for him to have it kicked to his advantage. It's a problem all over the field though, not just forward. The synergy is just not there and needs to be found in the month to come or we'll struggle come finals time.