POSTGAME: Rd 12 vs Sydney

[fr_ap 2,529]

5 hours ago, Fork 'em said:

Don't kid yourself.
For a side sitting on top the ladder.
We're hopeless.

Gawny wants to win a flag in front of the fans at the 'G'.
And we're not turning up to see it.
We'll just kick back and watch from home thanks Max.
Little wonder our reputation is like it is.

It's genuinely a factor in our performances I think. When we play in front of big crowds, we tend to play better. 

I am beyond disappointed with our attendances after breaking the drought. I always thought it might tip us into those bigger crowds, but it seems to have done the opposite, satisfied fans to the point where they no longer need attend or get raucous. 

Ive become convinced it's demographic. The reason Richmond, Collingwood, Carlton get 60k+ regularly is because to be frank, a large majority of their supporter base has nothing else to do & their weekend/lives revolve around the footy. We have dedicated, life long fans, but skewed to a more affluent demographic that is busier and ultimately has more than footy. Our lack of success for so long means most of our fans are rusted on 40+ - busy with life, careers, kids, ageing parents and household duties. 

We do have the numbers - they turn up to big games. The 2018 finals my best memory of it. They just don't care to through the humdrum of the season. 

Those of us on the forum are an exception - the fact we're here means we're already the die hards who will attend most weeks if we can. 

[John Demonic 5,850]

 

[Wells 11 5,422]

1 hour ago, John Demonic said:

Here's a left-field idea and I await the facepalms, but can Gawn alternate his rucking with two other players who split the forward/ruck duties? Jackson/Daw up forward alongside Brown? If TMAC is out then we need a physically imposing big body forward who can clunk a mark. Or you stick to the permanent forward, whether its Gawn, Daw or Jackson.

If the rumours re Tmac are true then imo Daw must at least come into the equation. Weid and M Brown have no physical precense and that isn’t about to just appear in their game.  Both are really just third talls and that’s it. Asking them to play a different role doesn’t make them capable of it. B Brown is in the worst form since he arrived at the club, perhaps of his career  and imo must be carrying an injury. On the rare rare occasion he gets it he now can’t kick anymore either ! 

We’re going to have to reinvent the fwd line and no one seems quite right. JVR? Daw? Weid as a key forward? Personally I see big flashing red lights for the dees. This issue isn’t going away. 

 

[Lucifers Hero 40,336]

For 10 games this year we've played to shut down the game in the last quarter:  Defend the lead, bank the 4 pts and move on.  We became very good at it.

So good that we have forgotten how to play the last quarter to win the game:  In the last 2 weeks we've 1.5 vs opp 8.3 in the final quarter.  Accuracy aside, opps have had nearly double our scoring shots.  With some allowance for absentees last week, overall that score line is more than tiredness, 'loading' or whatever.  It is system ie how to win when down and ball movement when down and lack of effort.

Its fine to train/load for Sept but not if it means we surrender the last quarter of critical games.

We forgot to play 'tempo' football, slow the game down a bit and get some composure before attacking.  Instead we rushed and went all out attack.  Then the fumbles came, even by some of our best:  Oliver, Lever, Jackson, Langdon etc looked like they were trying too hard to win.   The more mistakes we made the harder we tried. 

When the turnovers went Sydney's way we were badly out of position to defend and our small backs were caught out i50 with no support. 

The only person to stay calm was Gawn. 

Edited June 4, 2022 by Lucifers Hero

[loges 6,767]

7 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

If this [censored] gets your gripe then sound advice would be to shut your account down and don't bother writing on here. Because there is currently for worse comments written on here and the changes thread compared to what I just wrote.

I'll tell you was worse on and it was your Demon Army for barely making any noise once again tonight.

Ease up mate 

[Lucifers Hero 40,336]

fwiw of the remaining 10 games, 8 are vs top 8 sides (the ladder before this week's bye):

• 2 x Pies
• 2 x Lions
• 1 x Cats
• 1 x Freo
• 1 x Blues
• 1 x Bulldogs

And the other two, vs Crows and Port won't be 'gimme' games.

For those thinking 2021 will repeat itself the second half draw this year is different to last year with long haul trips thrown in to Alice and Perth and a few shorter trips to Qld and Adelaide.

We need to win:

• 7-8 of 10 for a top 2 spot
• 5-6 of 10 for a top 4 spot.

We have by far the hardest draw of any top 4 teams.

Sobering.

Edited June 4, 2022 by Lucifers Hero

[dazzledavey36 55,316]

6 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

Key takeaways (at least IMO) from Goodwin's presser:

1. When asked about how we lost it in the fourth quarter, he immediately focused instead on how we dominated the third quarter everywhere except on the scoreboard
2. When asked about our forward line, accepted we'll look at personnel but also method (I mean, that's obvious to all of us, but a reminder that swapping B Brown for Weid isn't going to make us score if we keep delivering it as poorly as we did tonight)
3. Directly asked if Ben Brown was fit, and said yes
4. They kicked 8 goals from turnovers, to our 0
5. Was asked about us being complacent, and denied it
6. Was asked why M Brown got the spot over Weid: "he's playing better footy". Weid has to play "a big man's role". Was actually kinda brutal about this, I thought
7. Petty had a hit to his shin, after the knee last week and then the AC joint tonight

My first thought also when I heard this.. 

[Mickey 4,731]

[BDA 22,875]

Average nights sleep which is usually the case after a loss

Sydney is always a tough game for us. Always. So not shocked that we lost

They brought they best, we were very patchy yet could still have won. I view that as a positive

Last nights performance was reminiscent of our mid season drop off last year. I’d like to know if we’ve upped our training loads. If we have then I expect this form to continue for a few weeks.

The prize is September and being in prime shape to give it a proper shake. We timed our run perfectly last year. Hopefully we can do the same again this year

We have problems to work through as others have outlined already in this thread. I have faith the players and coaching team can get things back on track. As supporters we need to stay the course and back in the team

Go Dees

[spirit of norm smith 16,581]

1 hour ago, Lucifers Hero said:

For 10 games this year we've played to shut down the game in the last quarter:  Defend the lead, bank the 4 pts and move on.  We became very good at it.

So good that we have forgotten how to play the last quarter to win the game:  In the last 2 weeks we've 1.5 vs opp 8.3 in the final quarter.  Accuracy aside, opps have had nearly double our scoring shots.  With some allowance for absentees last week, overall that score line is more than tiredness, 'loading' or whatever.  It is system ie how to win when down and ball movement when down and lack of effort.

Its fine to train to for Sept but not if it means we surrender the last quarter of critical games.

We forgot to play 'tempo' football, slow the game down a bit and get some composure before attacking.  Instead we rushed and went all out attack.  Then the fumbles came, even by some of our best:  Oliver, Lever, Jackson, Langdon etc looked like they were trying too hard to win.   The more mistakes we made the harder we tried. 

When the turnovers went Sydney's way we were badly out of position to defend and our small backs were caught out i50 with no support. 

The only person to stay calm was Gawn. 

Superb

[Roost it far 8,577]

7 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

We'll lose next week.

Finish up the training loading during the bye.

Then we'll get better every week from then out until we romp home in another Grand Final.

Do you actually know if we’re loading?

[Clintosaurus 7,860]

The maggots totally ruined the game. First 6 Swans goals all umpire assisted. Then I went to bed. [censored] cheats.

[The heart beats true 18,145]

As supporters there’s not a lot we can do - but there is one thing we can always do, and we don’t do it. This is the best Melbourne team 90% of us have ever seen, and for 2 weeks in a row we’ve been out cheered at our home ground by interstate supporters.

Had we as supporters brought even the same intensity as North did against us at Docklands there’s no way umpires pay those contentious free kicks against us, and not pay us at least one of the 50’s in the third quarter to kick certain goals. That’s the game folks.

We are far too nice, far too quick to make an excuse not to attend a game, and clearly en masse far too complacent thinking that memberships this year are for ‘grand final guaranteed’ tickets.

Where’s the fans that brought the heat and noise in 2018? It’s really embarrassing, as it’s literally the only thing we can control. I bet the club internally is livid. 

[Lucifers Hero 40,336]

Sydney may have had a slight edge in the umpiring but we can't blame the umpires for losing the tackle count 75 to 58?  Maybe if we had tackled more or better we would have had more frees...

Simply put the tackle count is work rate and effort.  No skill or system required to tackle. 

We were outworked.

And really, the scoreboard flattered us 23 scoring shots to 16 for the same number of i50's.

Edited June 4, 2022 by Lucifers Hero

[—coach— 3,496]

So from my view from level 2A dead center of the ground I noticed the following snippets of gold (or just middle aged man ramblings):

- first point, for most of the night our forward forays started from defensive 50. I made particular note that at the start of those forays our entire forward line were positioned defensive side of the centerline mostly on the wings. As the ball moved forward our forwards had to turn and race for the forward 50. If the ball came down fast, instead of kicking it to the open space inside 50 (despite having 3 forward leading their men running forward) we slowed down chipped it sideways until all but 4 Sydney blokes were clogging up our 50. Or we played handball merry go round until we turned it over for a fast forward entry at the other end. Then when we eventually did kick it inside 50 we managed to find the lone syd bloke guarding space or the 3 on 1 contest with brown at the bottom being jumped all over. If the ball came in slow, and we pinpointed a leading forward, the kick was so [censored] it went over their head or to the lone syd bloke guarding space again. So my question is, if browns a leading forward, how is he supposed to sprint the 110m back to deep forward, then turn and lead out at the ball carrier. Same with Fritch. To do so they have to beat the ball which if kicked is moving twice as fast as they can run? Very little of our scores came from quality center clearance which is where our leading forward have their best chance of success.

So my question is, why do we need our ENTIRE forward group playing on the wings? Why not keep 1 or 2 back a little so they have some chance at a one on one contest or don’t have to run back so far to then turn and lead out? We’re basically setting up for a quick entry inside 50 to forwards running onto the ball towards the goal but aren’t kicking it there when given the chance.

- second point, we seem to be getting first hands on the ball around stoppages, but cough it up almost immediately due to handball merry go round again. Freo we’re very good with their first handball going to a guy 10-15m away rather than our tactic of handball going to a guy 3m away. Think we need to look wider than the immediate contest to avoid the constant turnovers in tight

- third, our hack kicks go short and high, opposition hack kicks go low and hard (mostly). What this means is that a higher percentage of opposition hack kicks hit the chest of one of their own playing in front of their man. Most of ours go to a contest resulting in turnovers or null contests, very little result in us keeping possession.

Anyway, that’s what I notice, hope the coaches have some solutions because atm we look poor.

Off to watch Vermont under 10 girls playing at home today. Confident our forwards will stay in the forward line for some of the game and that there will be more kicking and less handballing that last night!

stay well people

[Redleg 41,418]

10 hours ago, Tarax Club said:

Max got a free kick goal beginning of 4th.

Yes forgot that one.

Also forgot to add forwards behind their opponents all the time.

Edited June 4, 2022 by Redleg

[KysaiahMessiah 725]

10 hours ago, Webber said:

You saw him play today? Kid would get slaughtered. He’s very promising fledgling VFL standard at the moment. 

Yep, I was there for most of the Casey game.  He's not ready.

[spirit of norm smith 16,581]

44 minutes ago, Clintosaurus said:

The maggots totally ruined the game. First 6 Swans goals all umpire assisted. Then I went to bed. [censored] cheats.

Agree. It’s not the number of free kicks but where and why? Some puzzling decisions and kept Swans in the game.  FFS it’s totally frustrating 

[spirit of norm smith 16,581]

If there was one key point out of last night … 

second point, we seem to be getting first hands on the ball around stoppages, but cough it up almost immediately due to handball merry go round again. Freo we’re very good with their first handball going to a guy 10-15m away rather than our tactic of handball going to a guy 3m away. Think we need to lookwider than the immediate contest to avoid the constant turnovers in tight

 

 

[KysaiahMessiah 725]

39 minutes ago, The heart beats true said:

As supporters there’s not a lot we can do - but there is one thing we can always do, and we don’t do it. This is the best Melbourne team 90% of us have ever seen, and for 2 weeks in a row we’ve been out cheered at our home ground by interstate supporters.

Had we as supporters brought even the same intensity as North did against us at Docklands there’s no way umpires pay those contentious free kicks against us, and not pay us at least one of the 50’s in the third quarter to kick certain goals. That’s the game folks.

We are far too nice, far too quick to make an excuse not to attend a game, and clearly en masse far too complacent thinking that memberships this year are for ‘grand final guaranteed’ tickets.

Where’s the fans that brought the heat and noise in 2018? It’s really embarrassing, as it’s literally the only thing we can control. I bet the club internally is livid. 

I'm beginning to agree with this sentiment.   Not my place or anyone else's to demand members go to games, everyone has different commitments.   But my overwhelming impression of those that are there are that the only noise made is the groans when mistakes are made by our players.  It's true that in the freo and swans games the support from the opposition supporters was clearly better than ours,  I'd even say the same for the North game with their small numbers.  I think our supporters are in "expectation" mode, and it clearly shows.

[loges 6,767]

8 hours ago, whatwhat say what said:

we're not beating the sides around us

fortunately, the sides around us are top four

queen's birthday could be a big test of the team

i personally think of plugger mac isn't around we're in big trouble; he's by far away been our key player since going forward

Unfortunately it's been when he's not playing for people to realise it.

[layzie 33,991]

1 hour ago, Roost it far said:

Do you actually know if we’re loading?

This loading line is spreading as quickly as the flu and while there's possibly truth to it I'm getting tired of friends using it as a crutch to why we lost and completely ignoring our inability to convert when the game was there to be won.

What's next, are people gonna blame Ramadan? Come on, there's nothing wrong with calling a spade a spade and being critical of the events in this match doesn't make us bad fans.

[Undeeterred 3,124]

58 minutes ago, The heart beats true said:

As supporters there’s not a lot we can do - but there is one thing we can always do, and we don’t do it. This is the best Melbourne team 90% of us have ever seen, and for 2 weeks in a row we’ve been out cheered at our home ground by interstate supporters.

Had we as supporters brought even the same intensity as North did against us at Docklands there’s no way umpires pay those contentious free kicks against us, and not pay us at least one of the 50’s in the third quarter to kick certain goals. That’s the game folks.

We are far too nice, far too quick to make an excuse not to attend a game, and clearly en masse far too complacent thinking that memberships this year are for ‘grand final guaranteed’ tickets.

Where’s the fans that brought the heat and noise in 2018? It’s really embarrassing, as it’s literally the only thing we can control. I bet the club internally is livid. 

Frankly I suspect the club knows most of the city has COVID or the flu and is extremely unlikely to venture out on a freezing cold night in June.

But go for it!

[Roost it far 8,577]

3 minutes ago, layzie said:

This loading line is spreading as quickly as the flu and while there's possibly truth to it I'm getting tired of friends using it as a crutch to why we lost and completely ignoring our inability to convert when the game was there to be won.

What's next, are people gonna blame Ramadan? Come on, there's nothing wrong with calling a spade a spade and being critical of the events in this match doesn't make us bad fans.

Loading is certainly a legitimate reason as is missing May in our 2 losses. If TMac is out then Weideman is going to become our man. BBrown looks all at sea and our rushed kicks into F 50 aren’t helping

[The heart beats true 18,145]

Just now, Undeeterred said:

Frankly I suspect the club knows most of the city has COVID or the flu and is extremely unlikely to venture out on a freezing cold night in June.

But go for it!

Oh, but for some reason Sydney and Freo supporters don’t have Covid or the flu?

Interesting.