TEAMS: Rd 08 vs St. Kilda

[58er 6,456]

1 hour ago, Sydney_Demon said:

I guess it all depends on recovery from COVID. Replacements for Jackson, Pickett, Sparrow and ANB included on the extended interchange bench are Weideman, Bedford, Dunstan & Laurie. Laurie has effectively come in ahead of Melksham & Chandler. I would normally agree that Laurie shouldn't play his first game as medisub but surely they wouldn't include Picket, Sparrow or ANB as medisub if they haven't fully recovered from COVID. The other option is Laurie in and Bedford medisub but that seems extremely unfair on Bedford. Laurie ahead of Dunstan perhaps if Sparrpw doesn't play? (seems unfair on Dunstan) I guess (nearly) all will be revealed when the team list is updated tonight.

Sydney Demon, 

To say that Tmac is a liability in defence is both incorrect and IMO misjudging  his role in Round1 and 7.

Tommy has got some height and bulk snd skill to play on a a 200cm forward when Maysie May struggle and Petty is either absent or on another task.

It's the  flexibility of Tmac that is a great advantage whether he plays forward  back or stints on the ball.

When  comparing Sam whose ruck work is superior snd his marking around the ground more at least equal at this stage of his development.

I believe we are giving Sam an inside run to improve and grab a spot in the forward line and as a second/third ruck.

Tmac provides bulk and more crumbing options and is a  more rounded footballer than Sam at the moment but by the end of the season we don't know?

Both  players are not 20 plus disposal machines so it's matter of which plays their role and fits in team wise as to who may be the preferred option.

2022 will be interesting for this and many questions who mashed up our7 defenders etc. 

We are fortunate to have multiple options at our disposal and the jury is  out on both our attack and defence at this stage.

[Cranky Franky 2,062]

25 minutes ago, 58er said:

 

When  comparing Sam whose ruck work is superior snd his marking around the ground more at least equal at this stage of his development.

Superior ruck work - you must be kidding 🤣 Sam's ruck work is woeful & at boundary throw ins he is probably the worst in the AFL.

[Deedubs 157]

I'm glad Montagna called it out. I mentioned it a couple of weeks ago on here and got slammed for it. 'Finding a gear when we need to' is a massive cop out and is the complete opposite of what the coaches would be wanting from the players. We've been flirting with form and have given 3 or 4 teams a big chance to beat us. 

It's not just the forward pressure, it's the pressure in the midfield too. Pretty much all over the park. I'm hoping for a big response this weekend. The media are generally a few weeks behind the devout fans with what's going no but now they're starting to see what I saw and that the wins are papering over several cracks. 

 

[layzie 33,825]

9 hours ago, Engorged Onion said:

Here is my hot take @Deedubs

It's helpful to remember that our preseason started 6 weeks after most other clubs, fatigue management and our 'pre-season' is still occurring.  It's occurring IN game, that we are 7-0 -> currently we're a bit more about absorbing pressure rather than having ours ramped up. 

Management and loading will change post mid season bye - in which case, barring injuries, we will have caught up so to speak with loading.

Montagna would know this, King would know this, but it aint sexy for a narrative. It'd be great if they addressed it though... but then that feeds into the 'no excuses' mentality that perpetutated.

It's not about bad habits... its about context.

Further, the team had 5 athletes out from the premiership team against Hawthorn,  this is also not spoken about in the media (see media this week in how 6 out will affect Fremantle).

Pickett etc, as individuals bring a particular type of energy, in closing down space, it is their specific forte....again context is useful to make sense of numbers.

David King might call it a 'mentality thing'... I'd call it deliberate, and systemic, and given the context of certain players being out last week in particular, and our defensive 6 in the first few rounds, again speaks volumes of our system and it's flexibility and how it allows certain features to be 'off' (at least from the outside looking in) yet the team can still perform at a high level and find ways to win, when these ratings are down. (how is the the other grand final team performing, with a delayed pre-season etc?),

 

 

Excellent take EO.

To Mr King or whoever said we were 14th in pressure, we're also 4th in tackles inside 50 and 1st in forcing opposition turnovers. Wonder what they have to say about our mentality there.

[58er 6,456]

1 minute ago, Cranky Franky said:

Superior ruck work - you must be kidding 🤣 Sam's ruck work is woeful & at boundary throw ins he is probably the worst in the AFL.

You have misread my comment CF It was as a comparison to Tmac and his marking around the ground.

Its not as bad as you say and is a work in progress as he is as a forward also. Some teams don't even play a second ruck or contest at times. Which would you rather? 

[chook fowler 19,459]

Just watched a replay of the Hawks game - Melksham is stiff to miss, whilst he didn’t star he definitely contributed. Likewise Dunstan. Bedford showed plenty and Smith was solid before injury. I feel for them all because none of them deserves to be dropped. 

[Engorged Onion 10,215]

12 minutes ago, Deedubs said:

I'm glad Montagna called it out. I mentioned it a couple of weeks ago on here and got slammed for it. 'Finding a gear when we need to' is a massive cop out and is the complete opposite of what the coaches would be wanting from the players. We've been flirting with form and have given 3 or 4 teams a big chance to beat us. 

It's not just the forward pressure, it's the pressure in the midfield too. Pretty much all over the park. I'm hoping for a big response this weekend. The media are generally a few weeks behind the devout fans with what's going no but now they're starting to see what I saw and that the wins are papering over several cracks. 

 

I'll politely disagree with you, mostly around the reasons as to why pressure is down... the 'sense making 'if you will.

The language that was used might be-- 'Finding a gear when we need to'  - which implies a laziness or lack of accountability from the players. I'll strongly disagree with the fact that we are choosing to turn it on and off like a tap... it's just not how sport works.

It's such shallow analysis and doesn't look at the multitude of factors that drive performance.

[Deedubs 157]

17 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

I'll politely disagree with you, mostly around the reasons as to why pressure is down... the 'sense making 'if you will.

The language that was used might be-- 'Finding a gear when we need to'  - which implies a laziness or lack of accountability from the players. I'll strongly disagree with the fact that we are choosing to turn it on and off like a tap... it's just not how sport works.

It's such shallow analysis and doesn't look at the multitude of factors that drive performance.

That's what I said. I said it's not by design i.e. we're not turning it on or off like a tap. I'm saying it's a trend that's now become a habit.  We have been unable to defend the spread. I don't know why but I'd put it down to complacency. We are one of the worst teams at defending from D50 to inside50. 

Edited May 6, 2022 by Deedubs

[Macca 16,972]

7 hours ago, Red and Blue realist said:

I wonder if this is also semi selective - by this I mean that in nearly every game we've had the match pretty much done by 3 quarter time and then seem to just coast in the last quarter. Other teams can't afford to do that, so I'd love to see the stats up until 3 quarter time and see if there's a massive drop off in the last. 

The eye test says we are happy to close down attacking play in the final quarters (after building up a decent lead by 3/4 time) ... we tend to not use the corridor and are happy to progress around the boundary line. Not always of course but there is a trend that way

The opposition team then needs to switch play away from that congested wing (and flanks) ... but unless those teams can switch quickly (with clean possession) they then end up facing the same wall on the other side of the ground.  A bit like how Clarkson's Cluster used to work

If the opposition want to use the corridor they run the risk of turning the ball over.  So we play risk-free footy and leave it up to the other teams to take the risks

And if teams want to progress through the congestion they are playing into our hands.  Another boundary line stoppage often results while time is eaten up

In the end, we are saving our legs as well (playing along the boundary late in the games)

All year our 4th quarters have been quite identical

 

Edited May 6, 2022 by Macca

[monoccular 17,432]

10 hours ago, Engorged Onion said:

Here is my hot take @Deedubs

It's helpful to remember that our preseason started 6 weeks after most other clubs, fatigue management and our 'pre-season' is still occurring.  It's occurring IN game, that we are 7-0 -> currently we're a bit more about absorbing pressure rather than having ours ramped up. 

Management and loading will change post mid season bye - in which case, barring injuries, we will have caught up so to speak with loading.

Montagna would know this, King would know this, but it aint sexy for a narrative. It'd be great if they addressed it though... but then that feeds into the 'no excuses' mentality that perpetutated.

It's not about bad habits... its about context.

Further, the team had 5 athletes out from the premiership team against Hawthorn,  this is also not spoken about in the media (see media this week in how 6 out will affect Fremantle).

Pickett etc, as individuals bring a particular type of energy, in closing down space, it is their specific forte....again context is useful to make sense of numbers.

David King might call it a 'mentality thing'... I'd call it deliberate, and systemic, and given the context of certain players being out last week in particular, and our defensive 6 in the first few rounds, again speaks volumes of our system and it's flexibility and how it allows certain features to be 'off' (at least from the outside looking in) yet the team can still perform at a high level and find ways to win, when these ratings are down. (how is the the other grand final team performing, with a delayed pre-season etc?),

 

 

Great observations and opinion, onion.  We have been doing what we need to to win, and not much more.  Shortened preseason, and anticipating a long season, there is no point in exhausting our players with 100 point wins, at this stage.  Look at 2021 - didn't really crush anyone (except GC$) until the prelim and GF.

7 hours ago, Fanatique Demon said:

After watching Lever last week, I’m concerned that the players returning from Covid might not be at their best. I’d be most reluctant to play ANB. 

Every case is different, but agree that if not 100% then don't play.  Same with 'flu.

5 hours ago, Neil Crompton said:

Let’s face it, if we had someone better neither TMac or Weid would get a game.  (hurry up JVR).

Given the form of both players this season, I don’t think our team performances will change very much for having one over the other. 

However, I think the Weid has far more upside potential than TMac and therefore should be informed he will be given an extended run to give him the confidence to reach that potential. If he can’t, he can’t. We always have TMac to fall back on. 

If we needed a pure ruck replacement then Majak would have got the nod.  I doubt if JVR will be rushed into debut (unlike Watts and many others of that era).  He will have been told that I am sure.

1 hour ago, Deedubs said:

I'm glad Montagna called it out. I mentioned it a couple of weeks ago on here and got slammed for it. 'Finding a gear when we need to' is a massive cop out and is the complete opposite of what the coaches would be wanting from the players. We've been flirting with form and have given 3 or 4 teams a big chance to beat us. 

It's not just the forward pressure, it's the pressure in the midfield too. Pretty much all over the park. I'm hoping for a big response this weekend. The media are generally a few weeks behind the devout fans with what's going no but now they're starting to see what I saw and that the wins are papering over several cracks. 

 

As I mentioned above, we are have been "doing enough" and pacing for a long season.

Edited May 6, 2022 by monoccular

[Demonland 72,222]

INS: Alex Neal-Bullen, Harrison Petty, Kysaiah Pickett, Luke Jackson, Tom Sparrow

OUTS: Jake Melksham (Omitted), Joel Smith (Injured), Kade Chandler (Medi-Sub), Luke Dunstan (Omitted), Sam Weideman (Omitted), Toby Bedford (Omitted)

[Lord Nev 13,512]

 

[Demonland 72,222]

St. Kilda's Changes:

INS: Rowan Marshall, Zak Jones

OUTS: Jarrod Lienert (Omitted), Marcus Windhager (Omitted), Tom Campbell (Omitted)

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,850]

Just now, Demonland said:

St. Kilda's Changes:

INS: Rowan Marshall, Zak Jones

OUTS: Jarrod Lienert (Omitted), Marcus Windhager (Omitted), Tom Campbell (Omitted)

Good ins for them.

[dees189227 12,394]

Poor Bedford. He did a few good things. I hope he isn't the sub. Just let him play a full game for Casey and get him some game time.

Its 5 good ins though.

Congrats on 200 games to Tom though. A credit to him after being shopped around a couple of seasons ago. Its a fair achievement.

[Lord Nev 13,512]

2 minutes ago, dees189227 said:

Poor Bedford. He did a few good things. I hope he isn't the sub. Just let him play a full game for Casey and get him some game time.

TBF, he only missed 1 Casey game while being sub all those games as far as I recall.

[Garbo 1,539]

Almost a grand final reunion 

[bing181 9,243]

Only bummer in all this is that the players that came in as cover are now all straight back out again. In spite of all the noises from the FD about "knocking the door down", there's still a gap between the chosen 22 and the rest - or most of them.

[Garbo 1,539]

7 minutes ago, bing181 said:

Only bummer in all this is that the players that came in as cover are now all straight back out again. In spite of all the noises from the FD about "knocking the door down", there's still a gap between the chosen 22 and the rest - or most of them.

Feels like only one position has really been in play all year and that is 2nd tall fwd 

[Josh 1,420]

14 minutes ago, Garbo said:

Almost a grand final reunion 

Never happened in afl\vfl history

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,850]

13 minutes ago, dees189227 said:

Poor Bedford. He did a few good things. I hope he isn't the sub. Just let him play a full game for Casey and get him some game time.

Yeah I feel a bit for him. Shouldn't be dropped on that performance but unfortunately for him he's down the pecking order.

Hopefully all the boys coming back are fully fit and we don't regret bringing back anyone that's under done. We're playing a good side this week.

[mo64 5,875]

Feel for Dunstan the most. Thought he's been good in both games, and playing against his old side.

No surprise that Tmac was preferred to Weid. Despite what some may think, we are not picking the team based on age. Weid isn't getting gifted a game because he's younger than TMac.

[heath55 63]

25 minutes ago, bing181 said:

Only bummer in all this is that the players that came in as cover are now all straight back out again. In spite of all the noises from the FD about "knocking the door down", there's still a gap between the chosen 22 and the rest - or most of them.

I’m not sure if it’s as much of a ‘gap’ as it is just that the 22 haven’t done anything wrong to the point that someone has needed to be or is in danger of being dropped. If players are playing well, it’s almost irrelevant how well the others are playing in the VFL, players won’t get dropped when they haven’t necessarily played poorly. The only exception to this would be Weids/McDonald position 

[old dee 23,792]

Nothing surprising in the changes. A good side to front up on Sunday.

[Demonstone 22,578]

15 minutes ago, mo64 said:

playing against his old side.

I don't reckon that should be a factor in selection despite the romantic/feelgood nature of it.

We must always pick our best team and this week's looks particularly strong.