PREGAME: Community Series vs Carlton

[rjay 24,917]

On 2/27/2022 at 9:58 AM, 640MD said:

malthouse predicts the bummers to be premiers.

Malthouse also predicted Scully to be the next Judd.

How did that go for him?

[binman 42,902]

22 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

The mental leap from 'we're not good enough to win a flag' to 'we've won a flag' is enormous.

Players now know they are good enough .. And by some margin. 

Yet the room for improvement is massive. Virtually every player has improvement in them and will. now know that every single step they make in their training can generate the ultimate result.

And the confidence in the game plan, their fitness and their team mates will be sky high. Plus the confidence that they can win from almost every position - other teams will know that Melbourne can pile on goals and win from 7 goals down

I for one think we will improve this year.

 

And when you look at the 2000's once you get to the top you can win 3/4 flags - Brisbane, Geelong, Hawthorn and Richmond have shown how to do it - with the right list, right age/experience bracket and injuries.

 

Agree on all of the above.

The other thing i'd add is we are a systems based team. And with a flag under our belt we have proof positive that the system works, so we have complete team buy in thta system (not that we didn't have it last season). 

But also another year to cement that system, so it becomes completely automatic. Every player coming into the team understand the system and know what role thay have to play in it. I think that was a huge factor in the Tiger's run of success. 

Also, other teams face a big problem against us, a problem that was evident last year - to what extent do they modify their own system when playing us to try and beat us?

That's a problem because system based football has proven to the most effective model in the last say decade (longer probably).

Sure every team will employ tactical tweaks to blunt opponents strengths and exploit weakness, including us. But if teams move too far away from their own system in their attempt to beat us, it is doomed to fail. 

So i think the 'other teams will work us out' narrative is a furphy.

The only path to wining a premiership, and finding a way past the dees, is to develop a rock solid system that works - whatever that may be. And as dees fans know all too well developing and cementing an effective system takes years. 

Which is why why i see the Bombers and Freo dong well this season. Both have been developing an effective system in the last 2-3 years, one modeled on the dees defensive structure. I think both will be really hard to score against this season and are on the right path to be top 4 teams in say 2023 or 2024.

 

[Lucifers Hero 39,739]

It looks like we have a clean bill of health for this game.  From AFL website:

"You could forgive the slight panic when Charlie Curnow limped off with a knee injury late in last Thursday's practice game, but the star young forward wasn't even sent for scans – such was the lack of concern from within Carlton. Jack Martin and Lachie Plowman should play in the AAMI Community Series, after both missed the win over St Kilda due to training loads, while Sam Docherty is a strong chance to feature in what would be a remarkable comeback from a secondary reoccurrence of testicular cancer. Harry McKay and Tom De Koning are outside chances to return, but should be OK for round one regardless". 

No mention of Salem so safe to assume he is fine to play.  But if he is a bit sore he may be rested .

[DeeSpencer 25,679]

1 hour ago, binman said:

That's not the case at all.

We ran with our best 22 in the practice match against the Tigers, just as we did against the Roos (except injured players of course) and then experimented in the dogs community series game. 

 

There were more missing than I remembered.

I can now remember Salem was rested with a tight hammy. It was Salem and Oliver rested, with most if not all of those who played against Richmond going again.

Petty, Brayshaw, Pickett were coming back from interrupted preseasons and so they played in the VFL game. With Gus and Pickett ultimately getting up for round 1. 

But I don’t think there was any experimentation. JJ and Sparrow weren’t experiments, they were improvers over summer. JJ was talked up as a round 1 starter weeks before the preseason games even started. We picked the best side we had available, whilst not rushing or risking anyone.

Which is exactly what we did against North. If the 3 big guns who missed aren’t ready to come back and others are sore we might see fresh faces, but it wouldn’t make sense to play just about our best side against North and not against Carlton. 

[Tim 3,418]

3 hours ago, Webber said:

The pathological hatred MM has for the Dees verges on laughable. I suspect if you asked him, he’d have some explanation for how we stole the Premiership last year, didn’t really deserve it, won’t be much chop this year….blah blah blah. To say he lacks credible objectivity is voicing the bleeding obvious. 

Perhaps a little more deep-seated than that. I’ve heard him describe his day at the 1964 GF as a mad 11yo Collingwood fan. He said that he was so upset at the result that he cried all the way home to Ballarat in the car. 

57 years probably hasn’t eased the pain….

[binman 42,902]

53 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

There were more missing than I remembered.

I can now remember Salem was rested with a tight hammy. It was Salem and Oliver rested, with most if not all of those who played against Richmond going again.

Petty, Brayshaw, Pickett were coming back from interrupted preseasons and so they played in the VFL game. With Gus and Pickett ultimately getting up for round 1. 

But I don’t think there was any experimentation. JJ and Sparrow weren’t experiments, they were improvers over summer. JJ was talked up as a round 1 starter weeks before the preseason games even started. We picked the best side we had available, whilst not rushing or risking anyone.

Which is exactly what we did against North. If the 3 big guns who missed aren’t ready to come back and others are sore we might see fresh faces, but it wouldn’t make sense to play just about our best side against North and not against Carlton. 

Sorry DS, but i think you've got this muddled up. 

The team we selected for the tiger's practice match last year was the same as lined up in round one of the 2021 season against Freo. It was our starting 22 and our best team at that point of the year.

That game was the full dress rehearsal for the start of the season. We didn't muck around with a big bench, using only four for much of the game and played at near match intensity, with all our key systems and tactics reflecting how we played though the season. And we played all our guns

Then against the Dogs we took a completely different approach. We used heaps of players that were not in our round one game and rested some key players. We also kept out tactical power dry (not bothering to try and stop the dog's mids, being less defensive). And we used the six man bench, which is decidedly non match sim. 

Interestingly the dog's fielded close to their bets side and, unlike us, approached the match like full match sim.

Given how much emphasis Goody has placed on repetition and predictability, i think they will take the same approach this year. Why wouldn't they - after all that preparation was a step towards a premiership 

The Roos game was our dress rehearsal and i think the starting 22 will be close to our round one team. 

And in the Blues game, just like the dogs game last year, we will select a whole bunch of players who will not see round one action, with some second year players getting a run, maybe one or two first year players and a number of our fringe players. 

In any case we don't have long to wait to see if i am right or wrong. 

Edited March 1, 2022 by binman

[adonski 12,058]

5 minutes ago, binman said:

Sorry DS, but i think you've got this muddled up. 

The team we selected for the tiger's practice match last year was the same as lined up in round one of the 2021 season against Freo. It was our starting 22 and our best team at that point of the year.

That game was the full dress rehearsal for the start of the season. We didn't muck around with a big bench, using only four for much of the game and played at near match intensity, with all our key systems and tactics reflecting how we played though the season. And we played all our guns

Then against the Dogs we took a completely different approach. We used heaps of players that were not in our round one game and rested some key players. We also kept out tactical power dry (not bothering to try and stop the dog's mids, being less defensive). And we used the six man bench, which is decidedly non match sim. 

Interestingly the dog's fielded close to their bets side and, unlike us, approached the match like full match sim.

Given how much emphasis Goody has placed on repetition and predictability, i think they will take the same approach this year. Why wouldn't they - after all that preparation was a step towards a premiership 

The Roos game was our dress rehearsal and i think the starting 22 will be close to our round one team. 

And in the Blues game, just like the dogs game last year, we will select a whole bunch of players who will not see round one action, with some second year players getting a run, maybe one or two first year players and a number of our fringe players. 

In any case we don't have long to wait to see if i am right or wrong. 

Would have made more sense to have blooded the fringe & first year players in the 'unofficial' rather than the 'official' practice game 

#crazygoodie 

[binman 42,902]

5 minutes ago, adonski said:

Would have made more sense to have blooded the fringe & first year players in the 'unofficial' rather than the 'official' practice game 

#crazygoodie 

#crazylikea(red)fox

[durango 2,007]

I think that origianlly the North game was going to be 6 quarters but NM reported that a lot of players had Gastro, de ja vu Geelong.

[DeeSpencer 25,679]

17 minutes ago, binman said:

Then against the Dogs we took a completely different approach. We used heaps of players that were not in our round one game and rested some key players. We also kept out tactical power dry (not bothering to try and stop the dog's mids, being less defensive). And we used the six man bench, which is decidedly non match sim. 

Oliver and Salem were rested with genuine niggles. They were the only players rested. Others were injured or not ready. Remember we had a bit of a run of injuries late in preseason to Viney, Gus, Hibbo, Melk, Weid, Brown as well as Kosi coming back very late.

No one was picked as an experiment. Baker, Chandler, Bowey, Lockhart, Vanders etc we’re our next men up covering for those missing.

I’d have to find a list of the 22 v Richmond to check but I believe Vanders and Lockhart came in to the best 22 from the Richmond game. Direct replacements for Oliver and Salem.

26 players were named but we played 22 players in the starting side. Petty and Laurie didn’t play.

23 was Bowey. Subbed in only after Lockhart injured his ‘groin’. Like for like replacement. Lockhart played 16%, was subbed at 1/4 time, Bowey 57%.

24 was Bedford, got a late run for some fresh legs in the last quarter.

Thats no difference to Weid, Bedford and Hunt getting some late minutes v North.

Lever, Langdon and Petracca all played 90%+ game time and May would’ve too had he not been concussed. It was a dress rehearsal it just went badly against a great team on their home deck. We were only 3 points down at half time as well. I’m sure we held back some tactics but that’s preseason.

There’s no indication that we won’t play our best available 22 fit players with a few emergencies off the bench used if required. 

[daisycutter 29,613]

5 hours ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

I think MM's hatred is for anything AFL-related in general. I don't see it as being specifically directed at us. He strikes me as someone who has taken the view that if he can't be front and centre of the AFL, he despises what he's been excluded from. He's been curmudgeonly for years and now seems to be a sad relic of a bygone era. To go one step further, I'm surprised that anyone in the media pays him to provide his opinion as I can't imagine many people are at all interested in what he has to say. 

he's paid to be curmudgeonly........click bait mentality journalism

[Watson11 2,240]

1 hour ago, durango said:

I think that origianlly the North game was going to be 6 quarters but NM reported that a lot of players had Gastro, de ja vu Geelong.

Is going to happen a lot this year.  Us flogging sides and then we hear they had gastro.  It’s a surprise that it never happened when we were useless.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,752]

4 hours ago, rjay said:

Malthouse also predicted Scully to be the next Judd.

How did that go for him?

He might have been closer to the mark than he intended. Both Scully and Judd strike me as players not much loved by their team mates. 

I accept, however, that one was a superstar of the game while the other showed occasional glimpses. 

[Demon17 5,188]

5 hours ago, binman said:

Agree on all of the above.

The other thing i'd add is we are a systems based team. And with a flag under our belt we have proof positive that the system works, so we have complete team buy in thta system (not that we didn't have it last season). 

But also another year to cement that system, so it becomes completely automatic. Every player coming into the team understand the system and know what role thay have to play in it. I think that was a huge factor in the Tiger's run of success. 

Also, other teams face a big problem against us, a problem that was evident last year - to what extent do they modify their own system when playing us to try and beat us?

That's a problem because system based football has proven to the most effective model in the last say decade (longer probably).

Sure every team will employ tactical tweaks to blunt opponents strengths and exploit weakness, including us. But if teams move too far away from their own system in their attempt to beat us, it is doomed to fail. 

So i think the 'other teams will work us out' narrative is a furphy.

The only path to wining a premiership, and finding a way past the dees, is to develop a rock solid system that works - whatever that may be. And as dees fans know all too well developing and cementing an effective system takes years. 

Which is why why i see the Bombers and Freo dong well this season. Both have been developing an effective system in the last 2-3 years, one modeled on the dees defensive structure. I think both will be really hard to score against this season and are on the right path to be top 4 teams in say 2023 or 2024.

 

In the dees team of the century painting it depicts norm smith giving a pre match address to the team. 

On a blackboard are 3 points. One is "expect to win".

I assume this was his mantra. All of your comments above ring true  but i would add smiths point too.

This dees outfit always think they are never beaten till the end. E.g. round 23 last year.

This mindset can't be just created but must be learned via experience. 

This imo will seperate our team from many challengers this season. 

some cats players internally will be wondering what do we have to do to beat melbourne.  7 goals up at 1/2 time won't cut it now.

[640MD 3,375]

I know its only a practice match  and perhaps only against the blues.

But i cannot wait   I want us to play the same way we did in the GF    and I want to go to as many games as I can this year and go there as the "PREMIERS"    go dees

[deespicable me 1,486]

21 hours ago, durango said:

I think that origianlly the North game was going to be 6 quarters but NM reported that a lot of players had Gastro, de ja vu Geelong.

It's definitely a trend then. Teams [censored] themselves when they have to play us.

[Grimes Times 1,278]

Will we be underdone playing the bottom 2 teams as a lead into round one??

[adonski 12,058]

Just now, Grimes Times said:

Will we be underdone playing the bottom 2 teams as a lead into round one??

The lack of competitiveness from the opposition in last years final series won't hold us in good stead either

[defuture15 898]

On 2/28/2022 at 4:47 PM, Demondan75 said:

This bloke is going to be there (only if his mum says it ok).

The missing Scott triplet?

[Olgreybeard49 242]

Has anyone cracked the ticketing system?  Reserved seat member. Followed instructions via app for ticket to pre season game and have been allocated a ticket - gate, section and seat all visible. Last step is to view barcode but I can't see that option. 

Currently setting a record for on hold hearing the club song on repeat.  Any clues appreciated.

[ArtificialWisdom 4,045]

4 minutes ago, Olgreybeard49 said:

Currently setting a record for on hold hearing the club song on repeat.  Any clues appreciated.

Mine finally came through literally 2 minutes ago. Try looking again now

[Olgreybeard49 242]

17 minutes ago, ArtificialWisdom said:

Mine finally came through literally 2 minutes ago. Try looking again now

Thanks for your reply. By what method did it come through? My 'ticket' just has a 'ticketmaster verified' footer and the More Options button is inactive (light grey).

 

All good - First rule of IT help. Log out; log in.

Edited March 2, 2022 by Olgreybeard49
More information

[ArtificialWisdom 4,045]

3 minutes ago, Olgreybeard49 said:

Thanks for your reply. By what method did it come through? My 'ticket' just has a 'ticketmaster verified' footer and the More Options button is inactive (light grey).

I had to close the app and open it again. But after selecting tomorrow's game you should now see it has the 'show barcode' button to the left of where it currently says 'ticket details'

 

[Olgreybeard49 242]

12 minutes ago, ArtificialWisdom said:

I had to close the app and open it again. But after selecting tomorrow's game you should now see it has the 'show barcode' button to the left of where it currently says 'ticket details'

 

Muchos gracias. Log out; log in; all good.

[Cards13 9,117]

On 3/1/2022 at 10:19 AM, binman said:

Agree on all of the above.

The other thing i'd add is we are a systems based team. And with a flag under our belt we have proof positive that the system works, so we have complete team buy in thta system (not that we didn't have it last season). 

But also another year to cement that system, so it becomes completely automatic. Every player coming into the team understand the system and know what role thay have to play in it. I think that was a huge factor in the Tiger's run of success. 

Also, other teams face a big problem against us, a problem that was evident last year - to what extent do they modify their own system when playing us to try and beat us?

That's a problem because system based football has proven to the most effective model in the last say decade (longer probably).

Sure every team will employ tactical tweaks to blunt opponents strengths and exploit weakness, including us. But if teams move too far away from their own system in their attempt to beat us, it is doomed to fail. 

So i think the 'other teams will work us out' narrative is a furphy.

The only path to wining a premiership, and finding a way past the dees, is to develop a rock solid system that works - whatever that may be. And as dees fans know all too well developing and cementing an effective system takes years. 

Which is why why i see the Bombers and Freo dong well this season. Both have been developing an effective system in the last 2-3 years, one modeled on the dees defensive structure. I think both will be really hard to score against this season and are on the right path to be top 4 teams in say 2023 or 2024.

 

Will be interesting to see how teams look to break the system ie lower the eyes when coming into the fwd 50. Or break with as much speed as possible and put the ball into space?

Our midfield/wingers/fwds and the gut running they do to shut down the exits and options fwd is still one of the things that will set us a step ahead of other teams.