More 300+ game players for the Demons?

[Supreme_Demon 3,020]

What I always wonder about is why the Melbourne Football Club has had so few 300+ game players?

Especially with a Football Club as old as ours.

I know some Football Clubs have numerous 300+ game players and even 400 game players. Especially Football Clubs like Hawthorn, Richmond, North Melbourne and Essendon.

However, the Melbourne Demons only have David Neitz and now Nathan Jones.

The late and great Robbie Flower probably could of but definitely had numerous injuries throughout his career.

Adem Yze and James McDonald were definitely chances to play 300+ games too.

Historically, so could of 1950s champion Demons Rover Stuart Spencer if he hadn't moved to Tasmania at the prime if his career.

Lets hope that this lack of 300 game players changes in the future.

I am confident that it can with the likes of Christian Petracca, Angus Brayshaw, Christian Salem, Clayton Oliver and even James Harmes. All are relatively young and are well over 100+ games.

Anyway, I would definitely be interested knowing who else at the Melbourne Demons people here think might be a chance of playing 300+ games?

[Fritta and Turner 3,829]

The reason why so few 300 gamers is that we were unsuccessful and rarely played in the finals.  A sustained period of success can add up to 30 games to a career.

Clayton Oliver.

[Little Goffy 12,770]

It is a tough ask no matter how good or durable a player is. It basically takes 14 years of full seasons to reach 300 games. Even getting games from your first year you are still talking about playing to 32+ without missing a season.

Testament to the sheer determination and resilience of Nathan Jones to get there while spending most of that time being used as both battering ram and castle gate.

Of current (one-club) players with at least slightly realistic hopes;

McDonald; 29 years, 193 games.  Would need 4 1/2 years worth of games, but is durable and smart, and a key position player.

Viney; 27 years, 150 games. Would need to keep plugging along to 33+ but isn't as far behind in the games vs age balance at you might expect as a lot of the time it has been more a case of being limited by injury than not playing.

Salem; 26 years, 130 games. Limited games in his first few seasons, but I can't see any reason why he wouldn't be able to keep playing until at least 40.

Harmes; 26 years, 122 games. Similar numbers to Salem but is not as certain of a continuous place in the 22, and doesn't have the wise head and kicking value that adds to longevity.

Petracca; 26 years, 127 games. The idea that this guy is less than halfway through his career...

Brayshaw; 26 years, 119 games. The coach loves him for a reason and it isn't because he's super quick or a mega-athlete. Outside chance for an unusually long career.

Neal-Bullen; 26 years, 105 games. In a tough position to be stable in the best 22 and behind the count a bit already. Unlikely but I hardly think he'd be embarrassed if he 'only' managed 200!

Fritsch; 25 years, 85 games. Mature-age recruit the only thing against him, but it makes it very hard.

Oliver; 24 years, 124 games. Piece of trivia; Simon Goodwin has only coached one game without Clayton Oliver playing, and that game was as stand-in coach for Essendon. Clayton Oliver is 24 years old. *Snort-smirk.*

Rivers, Pickett & Jackson; Sure, why not?

[Fanatique Demon 2,416]

10 hours ago, Supreme_Demon said:

What I always wonder about is why the Melbourne Football Club has had so few 300+ game players?

Yes , it’s disappointing that we have only two 300 gamers.

I don’t want to hijack your thread, but equally disappointing is our Coleman Medal record. The only winner was Neitz with 75 in 2002. We have to go back to before Coleman played to find the previous Demon who topped the goal kicking. Ie, Fred Fanning with 97 in 1947. And of course, we’ve never had a 100 goal kicker (in a season).

It will take several years before we can add another 300 gamer to join Neitz and Jones, but we could improve our Coleman Medal standing this year. Go Fritter, Go Demons.

[forever demons 1,878]

During our great years 50s and 60s a lot champion players retired early as there was not a lot of money in footy back then.Many had professional jobs and careers outside of football and had to get back to a full time job.The way afl is played now I cant see how players will be able to the distance to 300

[Fritta and Turner 3,829]

15 hours ago, Little Goffy said:

Salem; 26 years, 130 games. Limited games in his first few seasons, but I can't see any reason why he wouldn't be able to keep playing until at least 40.

Of course, why not.....hamstrings?

[mauriesy 6,859]

I just think it's harder and harder to make it now at any club. The game is getting tougher and faster. You need to play the equivalent of 25 games a season for 12 years, or 20 games a season for 15 years. Players also don't start now until they are 18-19.

As an example, Tim Watson made it to 307 games starting at the age of 15 years and 305 days. He was injured in the middle of his career in 1986-87 and only played 7 games in two seasons. He finally limped over the 300-game line with a zero-game season at West Coast in 1992 and two limited seasons (16 and 9 games) back at Essendon in 1993-94. He retired at 33.

Given ages and games, I can't see many Melbourne players making 300 games in the future (with the possible exception of Oliver). Certainly players who only have 150 games up by the time they  are 27 will struggle.
 

Edited February 6, 2022 by mauriesy

[Nasher 33,166]

19 hours ago, Jontee said:

The reason why so few 300 gamers is that we were unsuccessful and rarely played in the finals.  A sustained period of success can add up to 30 games to a career.

Clayton Oliver.

I know this is pessimistic, but I’m tipping Oliver to be done by 30. He plays a battering ram style and already has chronic shoulder issues. I doubt his body has the longevity to reach 300.

This is why I really hope the club is able to snaffle a couple more flags while this group is in its prime - the ducks are all in a row at present but that won’t last forever, and could wind up earlier than we thought.

Trac may be our next 300 game player - even then at current count he’ll need to play until his mid 30s to get there. I think he could.

[Demonstone 19,692]

1 hour ago, mauriesy said:

He finally limped over the 300-game line with a season at West Coast in 1992

Watson, although selected in the 1992 pre-season draft, had retired and never went to West Coast.

Sheedy lured him out of retirement in 1993, just in time to play in that year's premiership.  He played his 300th in 1994, which was his last year at Essendon.

My opinion on the topic raised in this thread is that the only statistic that really matters is winning flags.  I've never heard any supporter boasting of how many 300 gamers they've had or how many Coleman Medallists have played for their team and, although "nice", it's not really that important.  Team success is paramount IMO.

[Accepting Mediocrity 1,418]

4 hours ago, Nasher said:

I know this is pessimistic, but I’m tipping Oliver to be done by 30. He plays a battering ram style and already has chronic shoulder issues. I doubt his body has the longevity to reach 300.

I'm not sure that Oliver's game style is any more physical than Judd, Dangerfield, Lewis, Bolton, Boak, Selwood etc (all are or will soon be 300 game players). The list of 300 game players includes inside midfielders, key forwards, defenders and flankers in more or less equal measure. The consistent theme: most are absolute guns.

I think the key to reaching 300 games is to be good enough to still be best 22 when output inevitably drops 5-10% as players enter their 30's. Game style doesn't really seem to be much of a factor.

I reckon Oliver is in with a very good chance of getting there.

 

5 hours ago, mauriesy said:

I just think it's harder and harder to make it now at any club. The game is getting tougher and faster. You need to play the equivalent of 25 games a season for 12 years, or 20 games a season for 15 years. Players also don't start now until they are 18-19.

That sounds logical, but isn't backed up by the data. 9 of the top 20 all time games record holders retired in 2015 or later. Barring serious injury, Selwood and Pendlebury will soon make it 11 of the top 20 (both should reach 350 games this year). The game may have gotten faster, but sports science has come a long way in the last couple of decades.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,533]

1 hour ago, Accepting Mediocrity said:

I'm not sure that Oliver's game style is any more physical than Judd, Dangerfield, Lewis, Bolton, Boak, Selwood etc (all are or will soon be 300 game players). The list of 300 game players includes inside midfielders, key forwards, defenders and flankers in more or less equal measure. The consistent theme: most are absolute guns.

I think the key to reaching 300 games is to be good enough to still be best 22 when output inevitably drops 5-10% as players enter their 30's. Game style doesn't really seem to be much of a factor.

I reckon Oliver is in with a very good chance of getting there.

 

That sounds logical, but isn't backed up by the data. 9 of the top 20 all time games record holders retired in 2015 or later. Barring serious injury, Selwood and Pendlebury will soon make it 11 of the top 20 (both should reach 350 games this year). The game may have gotten faster, but sports science has come a long way in the last couple of decades.

Your point is valid, but Judd didn't play 300 games.

Unless you're projecting forward about 15 years and talking about McVee.

[Accepting Mediocrity 1,418]

6 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Your point is valid, but Judd didn't play 300 games.

Unless you're projecting forward about 15 years and talking about McVee.

Fair point! Swap Judd for Hodge.

[Wizard of Koz 976]

Bowey will get to 430 games, 5 flags, 1 Norm Smith, 0 B and F's, and then retire quietly into the sunset. (I think)

[Dee Dee 1,050]

14 minutes ago, Wizard of Koz said:

Bowey will get to 430 games, 5 flags, 1 Norm Smith, 0 B and F's, and then retire quietly into the sunset. (I think)

Bowey will leave Melbourne at age 30 having played 220 games and join St Kilda for two years to honour his dad.

[Cards13 9,117]

31 minutes ago, Dee Dee said:

Bowey will leave Melbourne at age 30 having played 220 games and join St Kilda for two years to honour his dad.

As long as he’s won the 5 flags, good luck to him. 

[gs77 3,425]

1 hour ago, Cards13 said:

As long as he’s won the 5 flags, good luck to him. 

* and wins none at the saints!

Edited February 6, 2022 by gs77

[Cards13 9,117]

1 hour ago, gs77 said:

* and wins none at the saints!

Nope would be happy for him to win another 5 with them, they deserve them as much, if not more than we do.

[BAMF 3,809]

45 minutes ago, Cards13 said:

Nope would be happy for him to win another 5 with them, they deserve them as much, if not more than we do.

Nah. If another team wins that means we lost. No way am I ever wishing another team wins 5.

[In Harmes Way 7,613]

21 hours ago, Nasher said:

Trac may be our next 300 game player - even then at current count he’ll need to play until his mid 30s to get there. I think he could.

I'm not one to overstate things, but I reckon Trac will be the best player to ever play the game. They should start sizing him up for a statue now while bronze prices are good.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,533]

1 hour ago, In Harmes Way said:

I'm not one to overstate things, but I reckon Trac will be the best player to ever play the game. They should start sizing him up for a statue now while bronze prices are good.

This is one of the best posts I've ever read. I'm not sure if it's deliberate irony, but the first 6 words absolutely make this post.

[durango 1,984]

The players who played before 1968 had a season of 18 games with at most 3 finals so just to play 200 games most players had to play at least 10 seasons without injury and play in finals, to play 300 games you need to play at least 15 season without injury and play finals.

Players were not paid very much and were recruited by the VFA, country or interstate clubs as playing coaches at a much younger age.

Prior to 1968 only 4 players reached 300 games Gordon Coventry 306, Jack Dyer 311, Dick Reynolds 320 and Ted Whitten 321.

Today there are 623 players who have played 200+ games of those 97 players who have played 300+ games of those 5 players who haveplayed 400+ games.

In 1968 and 1969 they increase the season by 2 matches, in 1970 they increased the season to 22 matches making 200 games in 10 seasons easier and 300 a little easier with finals.

When players play in bottom clubs they became dispirited and players usually retired when they felt they had enough playing in losing sides, thus players for the MFC did not get to 300 games until Neitz.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,533]

2 hours ago, durango said:

The players who played before 1968 had a season of 18 games with at most 3 finals so just to play 200 games most players had to play at least 10 seasons without injury and play in finals, to play 300 games you need to play at least 15 season without injury and play finals.

Players were not paid very much and were recruited by the VFA, country or interstate clubs as playing coaches at a much younger age.

Prior to 1968 only 4 players reached 300 games Gordon Coventry 306, Jack Dyer 311, Dick Reynolds 320 and Ted Whitten 321.

Today there are 623 players who have played 200+ games of those 97 players who have played 300+ games of those 5 players who haveplayed 400+ games.

In 1968 and 1969 they increase the season by 2 matches, in 1970 they increased the season to 22 matches making 200 games in 10 seasons easier and 300 a little easier with finals.

When players play in bottom clubs they became dispirited and players usually retired when they felt they had enough playing in losing sides, thus players for the MFC did not get to 300 games until Neitz.

Excellent summation.

[DubDee 21,265]

You need a few things - firstly be a bloody good player, play in your first season (usually) and have a tough as nails body that will stand up for over a decade

Oliver will get there for sure (barring any really serious injuries)

Trac/Gus/Vines etc will get to ~250 but time will run out. Trac the best chance if he can play fwd late in his career

Then I would back Rivers to be next (very early call I know). So consistent, half back you can avoid the hits somewhat and played most games straight away

[Wizard of Koz 976]

20 hours ago, Dee Dee said:

Bowey will leave Melbourne at age 30 having played 220 games and join St Kilda for two years to honour his dad.

Good riddance and dont forget to shut the door on your way out you red little headed legend

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,533]

13 minutes ago, Wizard of Koz said:

Good riddance and dont forget to shut the door on your way out you red little headed legend

The order of adjectives can be most important.