CHANGES: Rd 17 vs Port Adelaide

[leave it to deever 17,511]

15 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Thank you. Whether it be BBB or Weid, we might a Full Forward to give the team a marking target. Tmcd plays up the ground and the traditional CHF role with his aerobic fitness. Neither Gawn nor LJ are genuinely forwards. 

Tx SONS  I rate Luke higher than Max as a fwd but Lj while hitting the goals more is better he is not there yet. But he was hardly ever fwd. He also needs to hold onto more marks. I like him up fwd for his ground skills but he if wants to play next to Max then we very much need someone else other than poor Fritta to mark or stop the oppo from easily doing so.

I dont know why Goody allowed Lj so much freedom. Max and Luke if playing up the ground should have provided options at decent intervals around the ground and not so near one another or worse spoil each other.

We have some good crumbers in Kozzie and Spargo but they didnt get many chances.

Are we really that diasadvantaged leaving out Viney or Sparrow for another tall?

And yes our delivery inside was poor but it was certainly amplified by not having a tall stay back and force the pill  to ground.

I dont even care if its not bbb. Just get someone in.

Edited July 6, 2021 by leave it to deever

[drysdale demon 4,836]

1 hour ago, Lord Nev said:

Perhaps there should be more heat on our goal kicking coach too? Is it still Stafford?

The goal kicking across the comp. this year to date is the worst it has been for a long period of time, it is not just the MFC

[YesitwasaWin4theAges 6,703]

2 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Mmmmm not sold on that mate. Wouldn't make sense to do that when Brown isn't even in the team.

My theory is that because we've been getting smashed at centre clearances we've been launching even more from the backline meaning we're having to go long around the boundary which then means TMac (and Fritsch if you look at heat maps) are having to come way up the ground.

Agree with how we are losing clearances and winning alot of ball from our defence and going along the boundary.

Every man and their dog can see we are playing a key tall short, I just think they want him to play higher going forward.

Actually can't remember him taking a grab inside 50,  i feel They will go with Tmac as the connector with Action and BBB inside F50.

In an ideal world coming off 6 days BBB would have played against BWS going on the amount of game time he played for Casey. 

Hoping for it to go well Thurs night.

[Adam The God 30,261]

1 hour ago, titan_uranus said:

True but look at the progression in those first five games:

1. Round 2 (his first game) - 66%
2. Round 3 - 73%
3. Round 4 - 82%
4. Round 5 - 79%
5. Round 6 - 79%

He's come back and started at 74% vs Essendon and now 77% vs Port, so based on prior trends I'd be expecting him to scale up and play around 80%, or hopefully a touch more, of the Port game.

Yep, exactly. 

[Adam The God 30,261]

1 hour ago, BW511 said:

Justin Leppitsch has noted via SEN that we are lacking line breaking/penetrating Half Backs who can open games up.

It ties in with the notably more defensive style in which we are playing at the moment.

Hibbo is being used for shut down roles, Rivers is staying a lot closer to his man, Lever, May and Petty are not run and gun players either and Salem is a short kick type.

Hunt was having a go and Rivers has a decent leg on him, but we are now a very stagnant back half.

This also ties in with why T-Mac is getting the ball so high up, we are moving the ball slowly and he is the release from inside defensive 50, rather than getting on the end of the next kick

When we look our best, we definitely have Rivers, Hunt and even Hibberd running off half back, but we can afford to hold those guys deeper if we can use our wingers quick enough, particularly Langdon. I'd love to know if the opposition are playing closer attention to Langdon. It's felt like it the last two weeks in particular. When we don't have his run, we don't tend to move the ball quickly.

I agree with Leppitsch though. This was a big problem on Saturday. We constantly needed to handball to break the zone open. The few times that we did, we scored or got easy entries. If we're on against Port, you'll see us use handball a lot more to break open the zone. 

Edited July 6, 2021 by A F

[drdrake 3,178]

3 minutes ago, Win4theAges said:

Agree with how we are losing clearances and winning alot of ball from our defence and going along the boundary.

Every man and their dog can see we are playing a key tall short, I just think they want him to play higher going forward.

Actually can't remember him taking a grab inside 50,  i feel They will go with Tmac as the connector with Action and BBB inside F50.

In an ideal world coming off 6 days BBB would have played against BWS going on the amount of game time he played for Casey. 

Hoping for it to go well Thurs night.

We are back to poor ball movement and skills.  We all know as soon as we start to see players use the blind flick hand ball we are in trouble.  Usually starts with Oliver and Petracca then spreads to the rest of the team.  Unless we can sort out or clearances and skills we will struggle, it won't matter who plays forward.  I agree though we need Brown in this week just for a different forward dynamic, but we need players that can hit him on a lead.

[rjay 24,929]

33 minutes ago, BW511 said:

Justin Leppitsch has noted via SEN that we are lacking line breaking/penetrating Half Backs who can open games up.

It ties in with the notably more defensive style in which we are playing at the moment.

Hibbo is being used for shut down roles, Rivers is staying a lot closer to his man, Lever, May and Petty are not run and gun players either and Salem is a short kick type.

Hunt was having a go and Rivers has a decent leg on him, but we are now a very stagnant back half.

This also ties in with why T-Mac is getting the ball so high up, we are moving the ball slowly and he is the release from inside defensive 50, rather than getting on the end of the next kick

 

4 minutes ago, A F said:

When we look our best, we definitely have Rivers, Hunt and even Hibberd running off half back, but we can afford to hold those guys deeper if we can use our wingers quick enough, particularly Langdon. I'd love to know if the opposition are playing closer attention to Langdon. It's felt like it the last two weeks in particular. When we don't have his run, we don't tend to move the ball quickly.

I agree with Leppitsch though. This was a big problem on Saturday. We constantly needed to handball to bring the zone open. The few times that we did, we scored or got easy entries. If we're on against Port, you'll see us use handball a lot more to break open the zone. 

Rivers and May are definitely run and gun type players if given the opportunity. They've had to defend hard recent games because of the mids being down a bit...

My question is when do we look at Bowey and does he come into the back half at the expense Hunt who either goes forward or out of the team?

[Adam The God 30,261]

20 minutes ago, rjay said:

 

Rivers and May are definitely run and gun type players if given the opportunity. They've had to defend hard recent games because of the mids being down a bit...

My question is when do we look at Bowey and does he come into the back half at the expense Hunt who either goes forward or out of the team?

I worry about Bowey coming in to a big finals like atmosphere, but maybe we could try him against a Hawthorn? Flirting with form, I know.

I think Bowey is being groomed as a Salem back up, but Hunt's position is probably his other go to.

[deanox 9,927]

A top of the ladder finals contender drops a couple for games, a couple of ladder spots and looks shakey.

A debutant is not going to fix it.

[BW511 2,669]

6 minutes ago, rjay said:

 

Rivers and May are definitely run and gun type players if given the opportunity. They've had to defend hard recent games because of the mids being down a bit...

My question is when do we look at Bowey and does he come into the back half at the expense Hunt who either goes forward or out of the team?

I guess this is another thing we need to counter with opposition sides taking away the ability of those guys to create offense.

 

[adonski 12,160]

I stress this is only ***speculation***

But rumours are emerging of Petracca being an out due to planking related exhaustion 

[Dannyz 2,760]

57 minutes ago, BW511 said:

Justin Leppitsch has noted via SEN that we are lacking line breaking/penetrating Half Backs who can open games up.

It ties in with the notably more defensive style in which we are playing at the moment.

Hibbo is being used for shut down roles, Rivers is staying a lot closer to his man, Lever, May and Petty are not run and gun players either and Salem is a short kick type.

Hunt was having a go and Rivers has a decent leg on him, but we are now a very stagnant back half.

This also ties in with why T-Mac is getting the ball so high up, we are moving the ball slowly and he is the release from inside defensive 50, rather than getting on the end of the next kick

We tried to address this with Saad but were politely rebuffed at the first time of asking. 

Id bring in Bowey but not at the expense of Hunt. Could Rivers play the wing? Brayshaw doesn't help this lack of speed piece. 

[drdrake 3,178]

23 minutes ago, deanox said:

A top of the ladder finals contender drops a couple for games, a couple of ladder spots and looks shakey.

A debutant is not going to fix it.

No he isn't but he is in form and playing well at Casey, also can kick the football doesn't miss to often.  

[Adam The God 30,261]

31 minutes ago, Dannyz said:

We tried to address this with Saad but were politely rebuffed at the first time of asking. 

Didn't offer enough AUDs, hey?

31 minutes ago, Dannyz said:

Id bring in Bowey but not at the expense of Hunt. Could Rivers play the wing? Brayshaw doesn't help this lack of speed piece. 

Brayshaw is very good above his head and structurally understands where to be now, and that took some timr. I worry that it might take Rivers some time to get back up to speed, let alone does he have the tank, and then is Bowey as good defensively as Rivers?

[jnrmac 20,090]

1 hour ago, BW511 said:

Justin Leppitsch has noted via SEN that we are lacking line breaking/penetrating Half Backs who can open games up.

It ties in with the notably more defensive style in which we are playing at the moment.

Hibbo is being used for shut down roles, Rivers is staying a lot closer to his man, Lever, May and Petty are not run and gun players either and Salem is a short kick type.

Hunt was having a go and Rivers has a decent leg on him, but we are now a very stagnant back half.

This also ties in with why T-Mac is getting the ball so high up, we are moving the ball slowly and he is the release from inside defensive 50, rather than getting on the end of the next kick

Salem shoud be dragged if he kicks less than 20m. We need 50m bullets and he is the one that can do them,

 

[Smokey 4,389]

38 minutes ago, Dannyz said:

We tried to address this with Saad but were politely rebuffed at the first time of asking. 

Id bring in Bowey but not at the expense of Hunt. Could Rivers play the wing? Brayshaw doesn't help this lack of speed piece. 

Brayshaw has been fantastic defensively and is really settling into this new role on the wing. Dropping him would be ma huge mistake. 

[58er 6,450]

7 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Salem shoud be dragged if he kicks less than 20m. We need 50m bullets and he is the one that can do them,

 

We need a small forward who takes the game on and a more positive and aggressive  approach from all defenders as well as link up handballs like in the 2nd  half of the Lions game. 

At the QB vs Pies game we did not take the game on as we took the ball defensively around the boundary without centering the ball when easily done. 
Our game has become too stilted and risk free and the players are trying to save the not win it and no pressure is placed on the opposition.

Give BBB a go and alter our defensive tactics ( maybe play Lockhart) to a more aggressive move the ball quickly approach plus play a bit more in the corridor should get us back on track.

Cant believe the Coaches have not identified this YET it stood out like a sore toe vs Pies and has continued on frustrating everyone since.

Our forward line has ability but the ball must come down quicker for them to be able to have the best opportunity to kick a winning score. 

[chook fowler 19,459]

Alastair Clarkson, come on down. 

[58er 6,450]

48 minutes ago, Dannyz said:

We tried to address this with Saad but were politely rebuffed at the first time of asking. 

Id bring in Bowey but not at the expense of Hunt. Could Rivers play the wing? Brayshaw doesn't help this lack of speed piece. 

Danny Z 

it's not a Saad issue that was just having a go at getting him as a player. One player isn't the solution it's a game plan and approach issue now that needs addressing. 

Its a firm of play and game plan now that we are too defensive. We have taken the game on but are now to timid and tidk free to change. 
Coaches have yo alter our approach or we will continue to not try and win games rather than just save them. 

[rjay 24,929]

1 hour ago, deanox said:

A top of the ladder finals contender drops a couple for games, a couple of ladder spots and looks shakey.

A debutant is not going to fix it.

No, but kids add energy to the mix and we have been lacking energy recently.

That fact that he is an excellent decision maker and kick won't go astray.

[Deemania since 56 6,640]

2 hours ago, Allus Monk said:

The new David Cordner

Spot on! 

[binman 42,986]

2 hours ago, A F said:

When we look our best, we definitely have Rivers, Hunt and even Hibberd running off half back, but we can afford to hold those guys deeper if we can use our wingers quick enough, particularly Langdon. I'd love to know if the opposition are playing closer attention to Langdon. It's felt like it the last two weeks in particular. When we don't have his run, we don't tend to move the ball quickly.

I agree with Leppitsch though. This was a big problem on Saturday. We constantly needed to handball to break the zone open. The few times that we did, we scored or got easy entries. If we're on against Port, you'll see us use handball a lot more to break open the zone. 

We have the players to run off half back, that's not an issue. But our lack of overlap run and dare was super evident on Saturday. 

I know Goody said we are doing any extra training loads but frankly I don't believe him. 

We are not running out our games the way we were in the first 10 games or so, we are not playing with anywhere near the same intensity, our defensive running has been off for 3 weeks and we have lost our overlap run. All that points to a team that is physically tired. And perhaps mentally tired too, but i reckon that's less the issue. 

An issue for us is how many young players we have in the team and it is totally normally for young players to be flagging at this stage of the season. So that's part of it no doubt.

But you make an excellent point about the TOG percentages, with the young'uns getting a lot of bench time and the senior players conversely up around the 90% plus range. But any extra loads on top will impact the senior players and younger players. 

Our game, like Richmond. is super taxing - physically and mentally. The system is completely dependent on huge physical effort. And when that drops off, for whatever reason, we come well and truly back to he pack.

And we have major Achilles heel that is exposed when drop off our physical aspect - our kicking is woeful. We are mid table at best in terms of kicking skills across the board.

It is important to put our losses into perspective. We have kept oppositions to low enough scores and our average losing margin is only 9 points. But in each of those losses, our terrible foot skills has been a huge factors.

The obvious ones are missed shots on goal, but more frustrating is the terrible missed passes inside 50. So many wasted chances where all that was required was a basic 30 meter kick to a free target. And tracc has been worst offender

All teams have to bring their effort and will pay if they don't. But the  dogs, cats and lions sneak wins because even when off they  an rely on a handful of key players to kick difficult shots and nail both easy and hard passes inside 50.

The Cats stayed in their game against ess in the first quarter becuase of their elite kicks. The dogs were just paddling agianst the roos but players like MCrae, Bont and Bailey Dale did both the basics and difficult well

So, we have poor kicks. And i reckon we are fatigued. And nothing exacerbates poor technique like fatigue. 

We won't win the flag unless we are physically ready to go and cheery ripe come finals. And it would make sense to build that base now, even if that risks losing some games we might otherwise win.

I'm increasingly convinced that is what is going on. 

Edited July 6, 2021 by binman

[The Jackson FIX 3,134]

Leppa’s comments are interesting. I think we’ve always blindly pinned forward line connection issues on the mids and never really talked about the impact the backline mix (or their behaviours) have on the ‘ease’ of forward line opportunities.

I had a hypothesis that perhaps Petty is the issue (vs when we had Tomlinson who is a known runner), creating a stodgier backline. However, we played exactly the same backline in the Bris/Doggies wins as we did in the Filth/Giants losses, all with petty and not Tomlinson.

Therefore it feels like teams are locking down on us harder at the back 50 and stifling the easy run options we may have had previously. We then end up with shallow exits out of 50 which gives the opposition time to flood back.
 

Not sure the answer but perhaps Bowey over Pig (with a license to kick longer) 

[loges 6,767]

3 hours ago, Allus Monk said:

The new David Cordner

Spot on

[old dee 23,792]

3 hours ago, Allus Monk said:

The new David Cordner

He is not that good.