The captain and the umpires

[Go Lordie 297]

Andy, George and Binman, help me out here, please. Is it just me or do others also think our captain’s demeanour with the umpires is a problem? Infringement decisions in ruck contests can be inscrutable at times, but I worry about the way Gawny converses with the umps. He often seems to be sarcastic, smiling as he delivers his own opinion on decisions. These exchanges can be quite protracted if he and the ump are jogging back to the centre, more concerning if it is the opposition that has scored the last goal. He argues without actually looking at the umpire (I admit this has to be the case when he is standing the mark and has to be on the alert in case the opposition plays on), but on other occasions it seems rude, even demeaning, to the umpire (as in: you’re not worth looking at as I give you the benefit of my opinion). I understand that, strictly speaking, it is only the captain who is allowed to engage the umpires (although that convention seems to be breaking down as umps do more to explain interpretations). This makes the captain’s relationship with the umps crucial on a psychological level. I wonder whether Gawny is costing us football capital (goodwill in other words) with the umpires, an expenditure which might come back to bite us in a close encounter in September.  Please tell me I am fretting over nothing. Go Dees.

[daisycutter 29,616]

you mean this?

[Go Lordie 297]

No, I was sent by the Collingwood cheer squad to sow doubt and disharmony ahead of Monday’s big game.  :)  Yes, actually, I did mean it. I’m concerned. Do you have a view on Max’s relationship with the umps?

[Marty 419]

I’m sure the umps prefer Gawns sarcastic retorts to Selwoods constant whining.

[BDA 22,755]

Maybe he’s complaining about all the off the ball and low level hits he cops that the umpires ignore

 

[Marty 419]

He may get a few less Brownlow votes. But that will just bump Clarry and Tracs chances

[Fork 'em 6,983]

If the captain wasn't letting the umps know I'd be disappointed.

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

The umpires department should take a leaf out of the rubgy union ref manual and allow none of that sh*t. From any player.

[Dr.D 1,771]

umpires have been horrendous this year and have way too much influence on a game. I don't care how they're treated tbh. 

[maximum bob 462]

Just checked that it wasn't a full moon tonight but it may as well be it seems.

[Go Lordie 297]

You’re right, Max Bob. I think I am related to Professor Lupin.

[Chook 15,013]

1 hour ago, GOLORDIE said:

Andy, George and Binman, help me out here, please. Is it just me or do others also think our captain’s demeanour with the umpires is a problem? Infringement decisions in ruck contests can be inscrutable at times, but I worry about the way Gawny converses with the umps. He often seems to be sarcastic, smiling as he delivers his own opinion on decisions. These exchanges can be quite protracted if he and the ump are jogging back to the centre, more concerning if it is the opposition that has scored the last goal. He argues without actually looking at the umpire (I admit this has to be the case when he is standing the mark and has to be on the alert in case the opposition plays on), but on other occasions it seems rude, even demeaning, to the umpire (as in: you’re not worth looking at as I give you the benefit of my opinion). I understand that, strictly speaking, it is only the captain who is allowed to engage the umpires (although that convention seems to be breaking down as umps do more to explain interpretations). This makes the captain’s relationship with the umps crucial on a psychological level. I wonder whether Gawny is costing us football capital (goodwill in other words) with the umpires, an expenditure which might come back to bite us in a close encounter in September.  Please tell me I am fretting over nothing. Go Dees.

That's captaincy big boy

[monoccular 17,428]

44 minutes ago, Marty said:

I’m sure the umps prefer Gawns sarcastic retorts to Selwoods constant whining.

Maybe, though Selwood’s approach seems to reap more rewards. 

[Gunna’s 2,104]

2 hours ago, GOLORDIE said:

Andy, George and Binman, help me out here, please. Is it just me or do others also think our captain’s demeanour with the umpires is a problem? Infringement decisions in ruck contests can be inscrutable at times, but I worry about the way Gawny converses with the umps. He often seems to be sarcastic, smiling as he delivers his own opinion on decisions. These exchanges can be quite protracted if he and the ump are jogging back to the centre, more concerning if it is the opposition that has scored the last goal. He argues without actually looking at the umpire (I admit this has to be the case when he is standing the mark and has to be on the alert in case the opposition plays on), but on other occasions it seems rude, even demeaning, to the umpire (as in: you’re not worth looking at as I give you the benefit of my opinion). I understand that, strictly speaking, it is only the captain who is allowed to engage the umpires (although that convention seems to be breaking down as umps do more to explain interpretations). This makes the captain’s relationship with the umps crucial on a psychological level. I wonder whether Gawny is costing us football capital (goodwill in other words) with the umpires, an expenditure which might come back to bite us in a close encounter in September.  Please tell me I am fretting over nothing. Go Dees.

Are you saying the umpires feelings get hurt and they then don’t uphold the rules of the game? 
I thought they were profess.......

 

Razor copped abuse by a swan (think it was Papley) then paid frees to Hawthorn like they were going out of fashion. I think Razor should get an apology from the Swans player and then be dropped from his umpiring duties. He can’t be allowed to influence games due to his emotions thereby setting an example to the umpiring fraternity that they are impartial and need to view each incident on it’s own.  Similarly the rules need to be scrapped and rewritten to avoid this interpretation BS that confuses and frustrates everyone. 
 

But yes I agree with you, Gawn gets violated against week in week out and the only reason I can’t think of is that he has [censored] off too many umpires.  Just lucky he is the best ruck by a country mile. 

[dworship 3,342]

2 hours ago, GOLORDIE said:

Andy, George and Binman, help me out here, please. Is it just me or do others also think our captain’s demeanour with the umpires is a problem? Infringement decisions in ruck contests can be inscrutable at times, but I worry about the way Gawny converses with the umps. He often seems to be sarcastic, smiling as he delivers his own opinion on decisions. These exchanges can be quite protracted if he and the ump are jogging back to the centre, more concerning if it is the opposition that has scored the last goal. He argues without actually looking at the umpire (I admit this has to be the case when he is standing the mark and has to be on the alert in case the opposition plays on), but on other occasions it seems rude, even demeaning, to the umpire (as in: you’re not worth looking at as I give you the benefit of my opinion). I understand that, strictly speaking, it is only the captain who is allowed to engage the umpires (although that convention seems to be breaking down as umps do more to explain interpretations). This makes the captain’s relationship with the umps crucial on a psychological level. I wonder whether Gawny is costing us football capital (goodwill in other words) with the umpires, an expenditure which might come back to bite us in a close encounter in September.  Please tell me I am fretting over nothing. Go Dees.

You're fretting over nothing. Oh and if you get to the ground early and see the Umpires warming up you will often see Max wander over and chat to them.

[whatwhat say what 22,755]

razor is a reasonably good decision-maker more often than not

nicholls is horrible, and hates melbourne ever since gawn belted away an errant bounce once

they are incredibly precious but it's an unforgiving role - they are made to adjudicate on grey areas that can be interpreted differently by three blokes on the field at any time; they should make them full-time professionals and reduce it to two on field at all times

 

[Left Foot Snap 2,403]

12 hours ago, Mazer Rackham said:

The umpires department should take a leaf out of the rubgy union ref manual and allow none of that sh*t. From any player.

Captain can still talk to the ref. But agree, it's time to stop the player backchat and abuse of the umpires. It's over the top these days. Also a pet hate of mine is appealing decisions like every player is fielding at short leg on a hat trick ball.

[Willmoy1947 4,086]

10 hours ago, whatwhat say what said:

razor is a reasonably good decision-maker more often than not

nicholls is horrible, and hates melbourne ever since gawn belted away an errant bounce once

they are incredibly precious but it's an unforgiving role - they are made to adjudicate on grey areas that can be interpreted differently by three blokes on the field at any time; they should make them full-time professionals and reduce it to two on field at all times

 

This is correct, i feel very sorry for them because it is becoming increasingly obvious that there are more split decisions than ever this season in particular.

 The AFL need to get a Forum at the end of the year to be attended by every Club representatives to sort out the interpretations/rules as a high priority task. Try getting the players to umpire and the umpires to play as a priority and make compulsory attendance to a conflab before the start of 2022.

[Rossmillan 589]

Having previously been a soccer referee (at a much lower level), I have on occasions, paid 50/50 decisions against someone who has abused me.  Also from a psychological point of view, to show that their behaviour will not Alter my decisions I felt obliged to continue to pay frees.

Umpires are human, and no one likes being abused or disrespected.  It’s not in anyone’s interest to challenge decisions in anything but a respectful way.

Having said this, it’s a professional environment, I’ll back Max in to determine what’s acceptable in that environment.  I’m sure if he thought he was making the situation worse he or goody would reign it back in.

[chook fowler 19,459]

Poor umpiring has determined the outcome of more matches this year than I can remember 

[Demon Disciple 12,124]

Generally it’s not the ones they pay, but the ones they don’t. They are very inconsistent with their decisions.

[Left Foot Snap 2,403]

I hope the umpires have a huge crackdown on throwing the ball next week (while we have the bye and don't get caught up in the confusion) and reset to players for the rest of the year. Too many left uncalled and randomly one will get called. I include shovelling in this which seems to have been "decriminalised".

They fix that up and it will also help with HTB.

Edited June 13, 2021 by Left Foot Snap
Added

[Redleg 40,923]

16 hours ago, whatwhat say what said:

razor is a reasonably good decision-maker more often than not

nicholls is horrible, and hates melbourne ever since gawn belted away an errant bounce once

 

Isn’t Nicholls retired?

Haven’t seen him all year.

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

1 hour ago, Redleg said:

Isn’t Nicholls retired?

Haven’t seen him all year.

The best umpires are the ones you don't notice

[daisycutter 29,616]

Just now, Mazer Rackham said:

The best umpires are the ones you don't notice

so you are saying he must have retired then?