With Daw a likely starter at the Dees we can use him in tandem with Jackson freeing Max to play a forward role.

The captain would be a target who'd require a lot of attention from oppo key backs and provide chances for our smaller players.

We can do without him at the centre bounce in particular. 

11 minutes ago, Every Game in '64 said:

With Daw a likely starter at the Dees we can use him in tandem with Jackson freeing Max to play a forward role.

The captain would be a target who'd require a lot of attention from oppo key backs and provide chances for our smaller players.

We can do without him at the centre bounce in particular. 

You seem like a nice fella l am sure you mean good somehow it is not a good idea EG 64.

We need our captain at the centre bounce and around the ground' IN PARTICULAR !

18 minutes ago, Every Game in '64 said:

With Daw a likely starter at the Dees we can use him in tandem with Jackson freeing Max to play a forward role.

The captain would be a target who'd require a lot of attention from oppo key backs and provide chances for our smaller players.

We can do without him at the centre bounce in particular. 

These are good ideas .. where A leads to B, leads to C. Provides manning up by the opposition and hopefully, also provides an abundance of opportunities for our smaller fleet.

 

 

1 minute ago, nosoupforme said:

You seem like a nice fella l am sure you mean good somehow it is not a good idea EG 64.

We need our captain at the centre bounce and around the ground' IN PARTICULAR !

Agree. In addition Maxy can't lead, isn't particularly fast so his opponent would run off him all day and his kicking for goal is iffy.

Much better to have him drop back to help out defensively where his marking ability is best utilised.

Nup...if you want to know why it took Max so long to develop it wasn't only his attitude and injuries.

It was the attitude of a dumb coach and footy department that persisted with Spencer in the ruck at Casey whilst trying to make the far better prospect, Max...into a key forward.

I remember watching him in the ruck for Casey one day when Spencer was out injured and couldn't for the life of me figure why he wasn't the number one choice ...he blitzed, would we leave him there? no they put him back forward again. It took some serious changes at the club before this changed.

Max flourished in the number one ruck role when he got the chance and that's where he plays.

The idea sounds great in theory but it never works.

He hardly ever takes a contested mark when playing deep forward. He's much better at taking a grab in defensive 50 than forward 50.

He's a ruckman by trade, not a forward.

Max kicks too many points and MD may or get a game, or should not unless we get too many injuries 

It’s a lot harder to take marks with the defenders converging on you than it is with you floating across the pack. Combine that with poor ability on the ground and bad kicking and it’s not a great combination. 

That said, Gawn isn’t nearly the player he was at centre bounces since he’s almost eliminated jumping from his game. He wins a lot of hit outs but I’m not sure he’s a net positive in the middle. His ball use around the ground was also pretty stupid at times last year. He can’t kick and should remember that. 

Jackson might start the year as our number 1 forward and might (small chance) even be too important to ruck. We’ll see on that. But he could also be a very important change of pace in the ruck and we might have to use Max forward to get the right mix. 

Respectfully you don't move a 3 time All Australian ruckman out of his best position.

I don't mind the idea of occasionally resting Max deep in the forward line.

52 minutes ago, Every Game in '64 said:

With Daw a likely starter at the Dees we can use him in tandem with Jackson freeing Max to play a forward role.

The captain would be a target who'd require a lot of attention from oppo key backs and provide chances for our smaller players.

We can do without him at the centre bounce in particular. 

Maybe for a surprise Change ( rest) for at most 3/5 mins in a desperate last quarter but not really a winner so needs to be done sporadically and strategically.

You want him 80% forward and that just won't work plus Jacko deserves about 50% time in the forward line creating havoc as an extra midfielder and hopefully goal assist and/or scorer.

50 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

It’s a lot harder to take marks with the defenders converging on you than it is with you floating across the pack. Combine that with poor ability on the ground and bad kicking and it’s not a great combination. 

That said, Gawn isn’t nearly the player he was at centre bounces since he’s almost eliminated jumping from his game. He wins a lot of hit outs but I’m not sure he’s a net positive in the middle. His ball use around the ground was also pretty stupid at times last year. He can’t kick and should remember that. 

Jackson might start the year as our number 1 forward and might (small chance) even be too important to ruck. We’ll see on that. But he could also be a very important change of pace in the ruck and we might have to use Max forward to get the right mix. 

Could see Jacko playing plenty of footy as a Grundy/Nic Nat type ruck-extra onballer.

Max might end up more of a pinch hit ruck role. He will need to add some strings to his bow as he is extremely one-dimensional - not a bad thing when you are good, but in the long term, how long will the coaches be prepared to hold Jacko back for?

 

Edited February 18, 20214 yr by BW511
Grammar

19 minutes ago, Demonland said:

Respectfully you don't move a 3 time All Australian ruckman out of his best position.

I don't mind the idea of occasionally resting Max deep in the forward line.

i think he has 4 AA's

36 minutes ago, Demonland said:

Respectfully you don't move a 3 time All Australian ruckman out of his best position.

I don't mind the idea of occasionally resting Max deep in the forward line.

*4

Hop on an aeroplane and make the best pilot into the cabin crew because you are short there??

Max is the best ruck in the league. Lets not lose that.  Short stints to rest - ok.  Max is #1 ruck, lets not have him serving peanuts.  Even with sideshow and Sam out for a bit, this would be a death knell for the club in 2021.

58 minutes ago, BW511 said:

Could see Jacko playing plenty of footy as a Grundy/Nic Nat type ruck-extra onballer.

Max might end up more of a pinch hit ruck role. He will need to add some strings to his bow as he is extremely one-dimensional - not a bad thing when you are good, but in the long term, how long will the coaches be prepared to hold Jacko back for?

 

We’re at least a year away from that and the best result is Jacko becoming a star forward because that’s more valuable.

But we could be looking at a 50:50 split as early as next year which is actually not a bad thing. The Eagles had a lot of success using 2 rucks with Cox and Nic Nat. It can really keep the opposition guessing 

i couldn't handle the mental torture of watching max take a 25m set shot from direct in front

so, no

I don't mind the idea of Max spending time forward to preserve his body during a long season. But I see Max and Jackson working in tandem throughout the year, with the club picking and choosing games where Jackson spends longer periods rucking, with Max resting forward. Potentially against teams like the Bulldogs who have younger or undersized ruckmen. This dynamic would change once Brown and Weideman return (which I feel will be closer to the middle of season than the beginning).  

I see Daw as a back up swingman option if any more big men go down.

Edited February 18, 20214 yr by Knuckles

3 hours ago, Deemania since 56 said:

These are good ideas .. where A leads to B, leads to C. Provides manning up by the opposition and hopefully, also provides an abundance of opportunities for our smaller fleet.

 

 

It doesn't mean every now and again that Max can't be rested. He has been rested up forward many times. 

Max is a genuine  tap ruckman  and has the all round craft  that is his best position and is possibly the best at his trade.

3 x AA that says it all.

3 minutes ago, nosoupforme said:

It doesn't mean every now and again that Max can't be rested. He has been rested up forward many times. 

Max is a genuine  tap ruckman  and has the all round craft  that is his best position and is possibly the best at his trade.

3 x AA that says it all.

Maxy is a 4 time AA

Gawn's hard work around the ground to get to dozens of contests every game that gets us out of a tight spot or opens up an opportunity is far too valuable to sacrifice for his merely 'good' forward work.  Plus, he is actually a terrific ruckman.

He creates more scoring shots from a ruck role than he would if his job was nothing else but forward!

Having said that, I'm sure he'll be rotated forward a bit more than he might have been, just to keep things a little unpredictable up there.

I remember Goody's mastercoach move to win the r23 Collingwood match by moving Gawny forward in the last quarter. I also remember us missing finals that year.

Edited February 18, 20214 yr by John Demonic

I really don't think Max is utilised that well honestly.  He taps like 90% over his left shoulder and instantly whoever gets it is under the pump.  How about drifting forward instead of back occasionally?  Our backline is great, we are constantly outnumbered going forward and this is in part due to Max always dropping behind the play.  When he takes the mark in the backline he rarely hands off the ball by hand and tends to give it straight back quite often with a garbage kick.   We may look better with Daw or Jackson in the ruck and learn to utilise Max more around the ground.   Prefer forward to back as mistakes are not as costly.   He gets a heap of Hit outs which gives him All Australian positions by default.   Do we actually gain midfield ascendancy because of his dominance?? Not sure we do for how dominant he could/should be!

 

1 hour ago, NeveroddoreveN said:

I really don't think Max is utilised that well honestly.  He taps like 90% over his left shoulder and instantly whoever gets it is under the pump.  How about drifting forward instead of back occasionally?  Our backline is great, we are constantly outnumbered going forward and this is in part due to Max always dropping behind the play.  When he takes the mark in the backline he rarely hands off the ball by hand and tends to give it straight back quite often with a garbage kick.   We may look better with Daw or Jackson in the ruck and learn to utilise Max more around the ground.   Prefer forward to back as mistakes are not as costly.   He gets a heap of Hit outs which gives him All Australian positions by default.   Do we actually gain midfield ascendancy because of his dominance?? Not sure we do for how dominant he could/should be!

 

Some good points Never.

This issue is up to Ooze with other line coaches and Goody's game plan.

I would expect  25% improvement in our use of Max and our Better than most midfielders Use of ball this  season. 

Lets see.

On 2/18/2021 at 3:55 PM, Little Goffy said:

unpredictable

Big consideration and easily 'read' by opposition players tap after tap. 

im all for throwing the magnets at the board, but let me get this straight, you want to move arguably the best ruck in the comp... out of the ruck?