Jump to content


Recommended Posts

Posted

one good thing with this is that because the man on the mark is fixed it will make it easier for everyone, but especially the umpire, to see the actual mark and therefore the kicker's legal "line"

this will make it easier to spot when a player goes off-line and therefore to call play-on 

if the umpires are going to be strict with man-on-mark then they need to be just as strict with kicker going off their line, which is something we see all too frequently, especially around the boundaries

only time will tell how well umpires adjudicate both these situations   

  • Like 1
  • Love 1

Posted
22 minutes ago, Axis of Bob said:

Everyone here has condemned this before they have even seen it. I put it in the category of 'most people hate change'. There will be some implementation issues (and dire headlines capitalising on the fear of change), as there always are, but those will inevitably fade as it becomes normalised.

I don't mind the rule at all. It'll annoy people (because change = scary and bad) but it will encourage less crowded defensive zones because it will force a defence to commit more players to defending short kicks. 

Short kicks (and maintaining possession) will now be far more valuable since they are a more attacking option now. A short kick means that there is space to attack, or finding overlap runners from behind who have space to kick. In previous seasons defenses encouraged the opposition to take a short kick because it would slow the play down and left only two attacking options: a chip sideways, or a bomb down the line. 

The best football happens when teams link up with handball and run the ball through a defence. It's exciting and creates goals (and turnovers too). The current 'bomb down the line' game doesn't encourage that at all because it's too easy to block up space around the ball. This at least encourages space and movement around the ball, which should encourage riskier attacking play. 

It isn't the high scoring we're trying to encourage, it's the risk taking. Taking risks is what generates excitement, and this encourages more risk taking because they're more likely to come off. 

Yes, most people don't like change, and I expect you will agree that is not in itself an argument to support a specific proposed change.   We see in this forum plenty of posts pointing out why this won't work (in various senses) and some saying the opposite.   But how about actually trialling it in  the VFL or wherever to see who is right first?  If the AFL had nowhere to try things and had to rely on a theoretical analysis of possible pros and cons, then they'd have no choice but to either can the idea or just go for it.  But they do have that choice and yet frequently just go ahead with finger crossed.

I'm obviously conservative because before going on a 10km hike, I try on the new shoes I plan to use in the shop first.

  • Like 1

Posted

I will be interested to see how this rule works in practice. In particular, players supposedly "on the mark" regularly position themselves a few metres inboard to encourage (or force) the player with the ball to play along the boundary rather than going more centrally. If it is not now possible for the player on the mark to choose to be anywhere along the lateral line, but solely to a single spot, I expect a lot more attacking football through the middle. I think that's going to be a good thing for the game.  

  • Like 2
Posted
On 2/18/2021 at 12:04 PM, nosoupforme said:

How can you look at where you are standing and the player you are minding  on the mark ? What if you lose balance and accidently fall?  Do you keep your feet together  or apart?   What if Razor Ray is one of the umpires ?      God help us !the robot dancing GIF

That's 50 he took a step to the right. 

  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 1
Posted

Might have already been canvassed here, so apologies if so, but does that player have to stand the mark? In particular, I'm thinking of the circumstance where there is a 2 on 1, a forward takes a mark 50m out and his team mate runs towards goal with no one on him. The man on the mark wouldn't be allowed to defend properly and the attacking player running in would get basically a 'free shot'.

 

Posted
2 hours ago, dworship said:

Actually no, players are all coached to play to the whistle so onus is on the player. It's immaterial how long it takes for the umpire to call play on. We regularly see frees given when the player with the ball moves a little but not off the line and the player on the mark moves forward over the mark in anticipation.

When a player with the ball does move off the line the player on the mark still couldn't move forward over the mark until "play on" was called. This has just been extended to sideways and backward movement and it will be much more obvious when a player moves in anticipation instead of waiting for the umpires call.

As I've said in an earlier post, I think this will be easier for Umpires to adjudicate and it's up to the players to play to the call. Will there be some howlers? Probably, and while I understand the angst around yet another rule change (especially when we look at previous flaws). I'm starting to warm to this one but we won't really know till halfway through the season. The better drilled and disciplined teams will no doubt get an advantage in the early rounds and I hope we're one of them. It will be a litmus test in that regard.

Technically correct of course but that won't help supporters frustration when it occurs. 

Posted
17 hours ago, FireInTheBennelly said:

The umps used to call out to the man on the mark 'back 2 metres' etc, but now they'll have to bring them exactly to the mark, as we know one step off that mark in any direction is a 50.

So now it'll be back 2 metres, 1 metre right, further right, too far, a little to the left, inch right. That's it

Maybe we call it the JFK rule. Back and to the left.

I don't believe the above will happen. They will be called back like they currently do but if you're in the vicinity of the mark then they will just call "Stand" and the player will not be able to move in any cardinal direction. Before the chorus of naysayers starts; where the mark is, is an arbitrary point determined by the Umpires already. Per the rules below, that's allowed.

2021 Laws of the Game.

20.1 STANDING THE MARK AND THE PROTECTED AREA
20.1.1 Standing The Mark
When a Player is awarded a Mark or Free Kick, one Player from the opposing Team may:
(a) stand on The Mark; or
(b) otherwise be directed by a field Umpire.


Posted
6 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

Might have already been canvassed here, so apologies if so, but does that player have to stand the mark? In particular, I'm thinking of the circumstance where there is a 2 on 1, a forward takes a mark 50m out and his team mate runs towards goal with no one on him. The man on the mark wouldn't be allowed to defend properly and the attacking player running in would get basically a 'free shot'.

 

They don’t have to stand the mark. Heard from a few people at different clubs that some coaches were trialing abandoning manning the mark in certain parts of the ground and instructing players to instead just flood back to clog up the defensive 50. This rule change is going to make for some ugly defensive matches of footy IMO.

  • Like 3
Posted
On 2/18/2021 at 10:49 AM, Accepting Mediocrity said:

Add this to the long list of poorly thought out, untested rule changes the AFL have introduced on the back of the myth that high scoring = good football.

If a player takes a mark, and takes a couple of lateral steps and is clearly about to play on, is the bloke standing the mark seriously just meant to stand there glued to the spot until the umpires call play on? They'll be paying an extra dozen 50m penalties a game. Although that will increase scoring, so I guess the AFL will pat themselves on the back.

 

As this new rule reads, this will be an outcome; another AFL black mark and gametime interruption. Additionally, it may negatively affect the 'mark and play on ... ' character of the game - most inadvisable. 

  • Thanks 1

Posted
On 2/18/2021 at 12:38 PM, FireInTheBennelly said:

it opens up another option for umpires to influence results

 Sure does! They muck up games enough as it is, these days. Very unfair modification for backmen near opposition goal.

  • Like 1
Posted
11 minutes ago, Lord Travis said:

They don’t have to stand the mark. Heard from a few people at different clubs that some coaches were trialing abandoning manning the mark in certain parts of the ground and instructing players to instead just flood back to clog up the defensive 50. This rule change is going to make for some ugly defensive matches of footy IMO.

Have vague memories of us not manning marks as a tactic under Daniher for a while back in the day. Am I imagining that?

Posted

Give it chance and see how it goes. By the law of averages one of these rule changes will eventually have a positive impact and it may well be this one. Just instruct the umps to show some leniency while players adjust so as not to turn any game into a farce.

As ever, well coached teams will adjust better than poorly coached teams. Hoping Yze can demonstrate his strategic acumen in this area.

Posted
7 minutes ago, Ollie fan said:

The really bad thing about this rule change and all rule changes is the AFL never never never never NEVER admits they got it wrong - eg nominating a ruckman.

"who's up? who's up?"

maybe the 6 foot 9 dudes facing each other, razor!

the 'nominate who rucks' rule has to be the most superfluous of them all - if two blokes from the same team go up, it's a free...it ain't complicated

  • Like 4

Posted
3 hours ago, dworship said:

I don't believe the above will happen. They will be called back like they currently do but if you're in the vicinity of the mark then they will just call "Stand" and the player will not be able to move in any cardinal direction. Before the chorus of naysayers starts; where the mark is, is an arbitrary point determined by the Umpires already. Per the rules below, that's allowed.

2021 Laws of the Game.

20.1 STANDING THE MARK AND THE PROTECTED AREA
20.1.1 Standing The Mark
When a Player is awarded a Mark or Free Kick, one Player from the opposing Team may:
(a) stand on The Mark; or
(b) otherwise be directed by a field Umpire.

Oh I get it Loges, the face palm reaction is pay back for your inability to analyse, form a logical argument and present a thoughtful post of substance. Have never expected more than a 2 liner so the brevity of your reply is welcome, it requires little in the way of scrutiny. Do keep up the good work.

Posted
16 hours ago, daisycutter said:

seems like there is a 20m (10m either side) x 5m area where no-one allowed except man on mark. This 20m x5m area already exists.

man on mark must be directly on the mark and no movement laterally or back (until ball kicked or play-on called)

one can only pray that umps will apply a bit of common sense and not go 50m penalty crazy

Do you remember a couple of years back when there was 5 or 6 goals from 50m penalties in the Rich/Carl season opener for players encroaching on the protected area?

Common sense ?

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Posted
On 2/19/2021 at 10:03 AM, Axis of Bob said:

Everyone here has condemned this before they have even seen it. I put it in the category of 'most people hate change'. There will be some implementation issues (and dire headlines capitalising on the fear of change), as there always are, but those will inevitably fade as it becomes normalised.

I don't mind the rule at all. It'll annoy people (because change = scary and bad) but it will encourage less crowded defensive zones because it will force a defence to commit more players to defending short kicks. 

To be fair, I think quite a few in the camp against this rule change (myself included) aren't necessarily anti-change per se. Your first sentence highlights my main concern  - we haven't seen it, because it hasn't been tested, nor does it sound like they have consulted with coaches. The AFL's form on this isn't great - they have introduced a raft of rule changes in recent years, mostly under the guise of reducing congestion and increasing scoring, and I'd argue that not a single one has worked as intended.

The thing with these rule tweaks is that they will almost certainly have unintended consequences, which history suggests are impossible to predict without the benefit of hindsight, and tend to have frustrating teething issues with over-zealous umpiring interpretations. This one might turn out to be successful, or it could be an unmitigated disaster; the point is that I'd rather see potentially significant tweaks such as this to be trialed in state leagues first.

  • Like 5
  • Love 1
Posted
14 hours ago, dworship said:

Oh I get it Loges, the face palm reaction is pay back for your inability to analyse, form a logical argument and present a thoughtful post of substance. Have never expected more than a 2 liner so the brevity of your reply is welcome, it requires little in the way of scrutiny. Do keep up the good work.

You take yourself far too seriously, I'll repeat my request that you don't respond to my posts and I'll ignore yours.

  • Haha 1

Posted (edited)

Channel 7: "first the lowest scoring season in 600 years, then the covid thing with short quarters ... we're trying to sell ads here, guys. Just remember the rights are up for renewal after this year. Give us more goals or you might find your product, your entertainment experience, whatever s*** you want to call it, isn't as valuable as you thought."

Gil: "Yes Mr Stokes. I'm right on it, Mr Stokes."

(back at AFL house)

Gil: "Steve, find a way for these [censored]ers to score more goals or your [censored] is finished."

Hocking: "Hmmm ... is that open slather?"

Gil: "Yes"

Hocking: Does it have to make sense?"

Gil: "No"

Hocking: *thinks* "finally!!!!" *aloud* "I've got one or two ideas, Gil. Leave it to me."

Edited by Mazer Rackham
  • Haha 3
Posted
On 2/19/2021 at 11:33 AM, Axis of Bob said:

Everyone here has condemned this before they have even seen it. I put it in the category of 'most people hate change'. There will be some implementation issues (and dire headlines capitalising on the fear of change), as there always are, but those will inevitably fade as it becomes normalised.

I don't mind the rule at all. It'll annoy people (because change = scary and bad) but it will encourage less crowded defensive zones because it will force a defence to commit more players to defending short kicks. 

Short kicks (and maintaining possession) will now be far more valuable since they are a more attacking option now. A short kick means that there is space to attack, or finding overlap runners from behind who have space to kick. In previous seasons defenses encouraged the opposition to take a short kick because it would slow the play down and left only two attacking options: a chip sideways, or a bomb down the line. 

The best football happens when teams link up with handball and run the ball through a defence. It's exciting and creates goals (and turnovers too). The current 'bomb down the line' game doesn't encourage that at all because it's too easy to block up space around the ball. This at least encourages space and movement around the ball, which should encourage riskier attacking play. 

It isn't the high scoring we're trying to encourage, it's the risk taking. Taking risks is what generates excitement, and this encourages more risk taking because they're more likely to come off. 

Its the umpires themselves - or at least one senior umpire Shaun Ryan - that is alerting people to the fact that this rule is likely to cause chaos.

Posted
On 2/19/2021 at 7:52 PM, Lord Travis said:

They don’t have to stand the mark. Heard from a few people at different clubs that some coaches were trialing abandoning manning the mark in certain parts of the ground and instructing players to instead just flood back to clog up the defensive 50. This rule change is going to make for some ugly defensive matches of footy IMO.

Thats no different to whats been happening for 10+ years

 

On 2/19/2021 at 9:35 PM, whatwhatsaywhat said:

"who's up? who's up?"

maybe the 6 foot 9 dudes facing each other, razor!

the 'nominate who rucks' rule has to be the most superfluous of them all - if two blokes from the same team go up, it's a free...it ain't complicated

The whole nomination is to stop the non ruckman going up and being blocked in the process and causing any confusion about who was going up. ie if Jackson was playing on ball and wanted to go up instead of Max and his opposition player denying him a direct path to the ball up. You can block a players path as a defender but not as a ruckman.

Posted

Lachie Henderson discussing the rule in the little paper.

Says that once the umpire has called "stand", the player must stand and cant move backwards out of the protected area.

"Henderson says if a supporting player charges into space inside 50m with no other defender in sight, the defender will just have to stand and watch while it is kicked to them.

Previously a player could man the mark then abandon it to pick up an opponent running into space."

Maybe ANB will get a lot of goals this year running into open space behind defenders...

  • Love 1
  • Angry 1
Posted

Still totally bewildered how the AFL can make such a change without having trialled it somewhere other than a smoke filled room.

  • Like 2
  • Angry 1

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Demonland Forums  

  • Match Previews, Reports & Articles  

    UP IN LIGHTS by Whispering Jack

    Those who watched the 2024 Marsh AFL National Championships closely this year would not be particularly surprised that Melbourne selected Victoria Country pair Harvey Langford and Xavier Lindsay on the first night of the AFL National Draft. The two left-footed midfielders are as different as chalk and cheese but they had similar impacts in their Coates Talent League teams and in the National Championships in 2024. Their interstate side was edged out at the very end of the tournament for tea

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Special Features

    TRAINING: Wednesday 20th November 2024

    It’s a beautiful cool morning down at Gosch’s Paddock and I’ve arrived early to bring you my observations from today’s session. DEMONLAND'S PRESEASON TRAINING OBSERVATIONS Reigning Keith Bluey Truscott champion Jack Viney is the first one out on the track.  Jack’s wearing the red version of the new training guernsey which is the only version available for sale at the Demon Shop. TRAINING: Viney, Clarry, Lever, TMac, Rivers, Petty, McVee, Bowey, JVR, Hore, Tom Campbell (in tr

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports

    TRAINING: Monday 18th November 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers ventured down to Gosch's Paddock for the final week of training for the 1st to 4th Years until they are joined by the rest of the senior squad for Preseason Training Camp in Mansfield next week. WAYNE RUSSELL'S PRESEASON TRAINING OBSERVATIONS No Ollie, Chin, Riv today, but Rick & Spargs turned up and McDonald was there in casual attire. Seston, and Howes did a lot of boundary running, and Tom Campbell continued his work with individual trainer in non-MFC

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports

    2024 Player Reviews: #11 Max Gawn

    Champion ruckman and brilliant leader, Max Gawn earned his seventh All-Australian team blazer and constantly held the team up on his shoulders in what was truly a difficult season for the Demons. Date of Birth: 30 December 1991 Height: 209cm Games MFC 2024: 21 Career Total: 224 Goals MFC 2024: 11 Career Total: 109 Brownlow Medal Votes: 13 Melbourne Football Club: 2nd Best & Fairest: 405 votes

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 12

    2024 Player Reviews: #36 Kysaiah Pickett

    The Demons’ aggressive small forward who kicks goals and defends the Demons’ ball in the forward arc. When he’s on song, he’s unstoppable but he did blot his copybook with a three week suspension in the final round. Date of Birth: 2 June 2001 Height: 171cm Games MFC 2024: 21 Career Total: 106 Goals MFC 2024: 36 Career Total: 161 Brownlow Medal Votes: 3 Melbourne Football Club: 4th Best & Fairest: 369 votes

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 5

    TRAINING: Friday 15th November 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers took advantage of the beautiful sunshine to head down to Gosch's Paddock and witness the return of Clayton Oliver to club for his first session in the lead up to the 2025 season. DEMONLAND'S PRESEASON TRAINING OBSERVATIONS Clarry in the house!! Training: JVR, McVee, Windsor, Tholstrup, Woey, Brown, Petty, Adams, Chandler, Turner, Bowey, Seston, Kentfield, Laurie, Sparrow, Viney, Rivers, Jefferson, Hore, Howes, Verrall, AMW, Clarry Tom Campbell is here

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports

    2024 Player Reviews: #7 Jack Viney

    The tough on baller won his second Keith 'Bluey' Truscott Trophy in a narrow battle with skipper Max Gawn and Alex Neal-Bullen and battled on manfully in the face of a number of injury niggles. Date of Birth: 13 April 1994 Height: 178cm Games MFC 2024: 23 Career Total: 219 Goals MFC 2024: 10 Career Total: 66 Brownlow Medal Votes: 8

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 3

    TRAINING: Wednesday 13th November 2024

    A couple of Demonland Trackwatchers braved the rain and headed down to Gosch's paddock to bring you their observations from the second day of Preseason training for the 1st to 4th Year players. DITCHA'S PRESEASON TRAINING OBSERVATIONS I attended some of the training today. Richo spoke to me and said not to believe what is in the media, as we will good this year. Jefferson and Kentfield looked big and strong.  Petty was doing all the training. Adams looked like he was in rehab.  KE

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports

    2024 Player Reviews: #15 Ed Langdon

    The Demon running machine came back with a vengeance after a leaner than usual year in 2023.  Date of Birth: 1 February 1996 Height: 182cm Games MFC 2024: 22 Career Total: 179 Goals MFC 2024: 9 Career Total: 76 Brownlow Medal Votes: 5 Melbourne Football Club: 5th Best & Fairest: 352 votes

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 8
  • Tell a friend

    Love Demonland? Tell a friend!

×
×
  • Create New...