Mason Cox is...but Trent Cotchin and Joel Selwood aren’t....please!

I don’t pay too much heed to champion data since they rated our list the best in the comp before the 2019 season. It’s just guesswork.

Looks like the work experience kid posted something accidentally! 

That's a weird list, then again Champion Data's definition of Elite has always been .... curious.
 

Edited February 3, 20215 yr by Ouch!

Steven Motlop?! He’s barely getting a game at Port! In what reality is he classified as elite?! I know it’s just stats, but I’d have thought he wouldn’t be ranked in the top 400 players statistically...

Champion Data need a complete overhaul of their ratings system.  It is a shocker.

Good on Champion Data for trying, but Aussie Rules just isn't a sport that lends itself particularly well to meaningful statistical analysis. Most other sports have reliable KPI's - rebounds, batting averages, etc. What defines an elite AFL player is essentially how damaging they are with ball in hand - but it can't really be measured by disposals, disposal efficiency, clearances etc. 

I'm kind of puzzled by the lack of Steven May on that list.  I wonder if they base their ratings for key defenders on disposals. 

Must have turned up to all of last years matches blindfolded.....

44 minutes ago, RalphiusMaximus said:

I'm kind of puzzled by the lack of Steven May on that list.  I wonder if they base their ratings for key defenders on disposals. 

Yeah agree - I can’t believe Sicily is better than May

Matt Rowell looks like he can become elite but how many games has he played?

1 minute ago, Better days ahead said:

Matt Rowell looks like he can become elite but how many games has he played?

2 and a quarter?

Some curious ins. Some even more curious outs.

 

Gawn,  Oliver and  Petracca      yes !            Oh !  Steven May not good enough ?     What the.......

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    

The trouble with Champion Data's "Eliteness" system is that they overdo the targeting of the stats they use for each position and as a result make some eyebrow raising conclusions.

It is always "Elite in this set of statistics which we select as being the relevant ones for this particular position."

It's the elite ratings process that Groucho Marx would come up with;  "I'm the best 38-year old, mustached, 5 foot 6 inch, cross-eyed, one leg shorter than the other right fielder in baseball history."

 

16 hours ago, george_on_the_outer said:

Mason Cox is...but Trent Cotchin and Joel Selwood aren’t....please!

Cotchin and Selwood where a long way from elite last season

Mason Cox elite.... what a stupid system

9 hours ago, Grimes Times said:

Cotchin and Selwood where a long way from elite last season

Cotchins new stock and trade is to wack someone and then plead ignorance when the umpire arrives

On 2/3/2021 at 4:29 PM, george_on_the_outer said:

Mason Cox is...but Trent Cotchin and Joel Selwood aren’t....please!

I’m doubtful on Cox too but those two players aren’t elite either. 

The do a poor job clarifying the system. Elite for them means in the top x percent at a position. 
 

I’d have Tom Lynch as elite and much higher but otherwise the key forwards drop away quickly after the top 5 or so.

Champion Data punishes players for missing goals. Harshly. Bad kicking is bad footy so it makes sense to an extent. Cox rarely gets the ball but he rarely misses either.

They don’t care if he gets 5 touches a game if he nails his 2 shots and doesn’t get out marked.

I’m not saying Cox is elite but it’s something well worth considering in what actually matters for a key forward. Halve contests, don’t get out marked, nail your shots and do your job defensively matter more than taking 8 marks and having 15 touches.

Edited February 4, 20215 yr by DeeSpencer

13 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

The do a poor job clarifying the system. Elite for them means in the top x percent at a position. 
 

I’d have Tom Lynch as elite and much higher but otherwise the key forwards drop away quickly after the top 5 or so.

Champion Data punishes players for missing goals. Harshly. Bad kicking is bad footy so it makes sense to an extent. Cox rarely gets the ball but he rarely misses either.

They don’t care if he gets 5 touches a game if he nails his 2 shots and doesn’t get out marked.

I’m not saying Cox is elite but it’s something well worth considering in what actually matters for a key forward. Halve contests, don’t get out marked, nail your shots and do your job defensively matter more than taking 8 marks and having 15 touches.

The thing is people will look at a list like this, then they pick out 1 or 2 names on the list and say the whole things wrong, when 90% of the list is accurate, and there are elite players that have been elite but have not been elite for 1 or 2 years, and people will say well where is so and so. So obviously when you put those two things together then of course every single list like  this is always going to be wrong. Simple minds pick out simple things.

16 minutes ago, don't make me angry said:

The thing is people will look at a list like this, then they pick out 1 or 2 names on the list and say the whole things wrong, when 90% of the list is accurate, and there are elite players that have been elite but have not been elite for 1 or 2 years, and people will say well where is so and so. So obviously when you put those two things together then of course every single list like  this is always going to be wrong. Simple minds pick out simple things.

I agree with that, but I also don't think Champion Data's publicity arm does them any service. You can't be a stats company and then just break down players in to categories based on being in the x best players at a position in the last year.

If you're going to make an elite category then have it as the elite players weighted over a longer period of time and don't make it so position focused. Weight it based on who really is  making the elite impact on games.

Or do it another way. Release the data and let educated fans make their own analysis. There's an army of smart people out there desperate to cut up the Champion Data numbers as they see fit and they'll produce great content from it.

On 2/4/2021 at 8:29 AM, Action Jackson said:

Mason Cox elite.... what a stupid system

Well, Mason did used to tell everyone he was, so there you go.....

Selection of both GC players & Motlop for PA is [censored]

 

5 hours ago, willmoy said:

..

 

On 04/02/2021 at 9:29 AM, Action Jackson said:

Mason Cox elite.... what a stupid system

A teacher wrote 10 math questions with 10 answers on the blackboard in his maths class, 9 where correct and 1 was wrong, the whole class was laughing at the teacher, the teacher asked what they are  laughing at, 1 students spoke up and said "because you got number 5 wrong". Then the teacher said "that's what's wrong with the world, everyone picks out the 1 mistake, and points it out to put that person down, but  ever few congratulate that person for getting the other nine right".

Edited February 5, 20215 yr by don't make me angry