12 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Pretty interesting thread on the Freo BF board. Seems were both looking at same issues with our teams heading into round 1, namely key forwards/forward line.

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/changes-rnd-1-vs-demons.1257077/

Maxy SHOULD dominate in the ruck then it's gonna come down to a battle of the midfields I think.

The problem has been for a while though that the ruck dominance hasn't been translating into clearances.

 

39 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

The problem has been for a while though that the ruck dominance hasn't been translating into clearances.

 

While Max gets large numbers of hit outs not a lot of them are well directed. You seldom see him hit one of our players and some teams rove his hit out very well.

Edited March 14, 20215 yr by old dee

24 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

The problem has been for a while though that the ruck dominance hasn't been translating into clearances.

 

That's true although Max should be able to do his work around the ground with inexperienced opposition. Of course we thought the same in 2019 vs Port and look how that turned out. Hopefully we're ready this time in case the Dockers decide to get stuck into Max.

27 minutes ago, old dee said:

While Max gets large numbers of hit outs not a lot of them are well directed. You seldom see him hit one of our players and some teams rove his hit out very well.

the other tactic is that they just sit off our midfield and tackle the recipient who is often forced into a wayward handball. It happened repeatedly in the recent Bulldogs game.

Brings back memories of Jamar... hardly ever lost the tap but rarely hit it to advantage.

TBH I have given up on the ruck position and it just becomes an issue of whether the nominated ruck is useful in another capacity. Perhaps it's a position that will benefit from less rotations as midfielders get tired but who knows.

41 minutes ago, old dee said:

While Max gets large numbers of hit outs not a lot of them are well directed. You seldom see him hit one of our players and some teams rove his hit out very well.

Which is why I’m a fan of him punching it to CHF every now and then to mix it up.

Will we see a gameplan that recognises a lack of goal kicking power from Goodwin.

While not a great specatacle a score of 5.11 to 3:13 would be a good outcome.

For once I would like to see an opposition fifty metre zone as packed as ours.

 

51 minutes ago, old dee said:

While Max gets large numbers of hit outs not a lot of them are well directed. You seldom see him hit one of our players and some teams rove his hit out very well.

Yep. Interesting Stafford was moved from the ruck coach role end of last year, and a little concerning we don't have someone in that role now, but hopefully Yze as midfield coach can bring some improvement. It's not been tracking the right way the last few years.

2018
Hitouts: 1st
Clearances: 3rd

2019:
Hitouts: 3rd
Clearances: 8th

2020
Hitouts: 3rd
Clearances: 15th

 

24 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Yep. Interesting Stafford was moved from the ruck coach role end of last year, and a little concerning we don't have someone in that role now, but hopefully Yze as midfield coach can bring some improvement. It's not been tracking the right way the last few years.

2018
Hitouts: 1st
Clearances: 3rd

2019:
Hitouts: 3rd
Clearances: 8th

2020
Hitouts: 3rd
Clearances: 15th

 

Would love to know what changed.  Really we were even WORSE last year than 2019 with Trac moving on to the ball?

2018 says it all.. took advantage of Maxs dominance and we made the prelim

Edited March 14, 20215 yr by Pickett2Jackson

On 3/9/2021 at 1:09 AM, Pates said:

Bold move putting captain and one of the competition’s best ruckmen at FF. I’m not actually against it for a couple of reasons. Firstly it seems that even with him there seems to be this ability of the oppositions on ballers to rove to his taps, which given the quality actually gives them a comfortable ride. I would like to see Jackson given closer to 35%-40% ruck duties and challenge him to impact the second contest as well as the ruck taps. 

Gawn as a forward option could be a headache for the defenders given his longer reach, but please let’s not just assume he can beat all and do the no-look long bomb. 

Yes. The impact of Gawn in the forward line is less about putting it on his head and more about making defenders accountable therefore creating opportunities for lead up targets.

I would still start Gawn in the middle but agree he should spend plenty of time forward in the first few rounds.

In the modern game, anything you can do to keep that intercept defender occupied is a plus.

That's why Ben Brown is such an enticing prospect. Even though he's more a lead-up type player, his height means you can't just leave him one out against most defenders.

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

That's true although Max should be able to do his work around the ground with inexperienced opposition. Of course we thought the same in 2019 vs Port and look how that turned out. Hopefully we're ready this time in case the Dockers decide to get stuck into Max.

Gawn was rucking against Paddy Ryder and Scott Lycett that day. They went to town on him and beat him physically. 

5 minutes ago, Pickett2Jackson said:

Would love to know what changed.  Really we were even WORSE last year than 2019 with Trac moving on to the ball?

2018 says it all.. took advantage of Maxs dominance and we made the prelim

I think the opposition have done a lot of homework on us since our second half of 2018 (6-6-6 etc haven't helped either).  In some respects it's easy for the opposition as Gawn wins the majority of taps so it's just a matter of analysing where he likes to hit it and nullify the player he's hitting to.

I felt early on last year Oliver was usually his target and Oliver was tackled / held / scragged before he had even received the ball.  After a few holding the ball decisions it lead to a bit of panicking and quick handballs / kicks which ended in turnovers.  

While I think the umpires should have clamped down on this, it was disappointing that we weren't able to adapt - with Gawn and Oliver (and Petracca and Viney) in there, we should be the team that is able to make things unpredictable for opposition teams.  It's clearly not an easy fix but it is good to have some experienced fresh eyes looking at it in Yze.  I'm hoping this is the breath of fresh air our mids needed.

50 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Yep. Interesting Stafford was moved from the ruck coach role end of last year, and a little concerning we don't have someone in that role now, but hopefully Yze as midfield coach can bring some improvement. It's not been tracking the right way the last few years.

2018
Hitouts: 1st
Clearances: 3rd

2019:
Hitouts: 3rd
Clearances: 8th

2020
Hitouts: 3rd
Clearances: 15th

That is a terrible trend.  No wonder we can't win games.  Those numbers are a real indictment on our game plan and structures at stoppages.

All the talk of being a 'contested team', 'winning the contest' looks like bs.  Great idea but not working in practice.

Before anyone reminds me:  yes I know that winning the contest also includes things like 'ground ball gets', 50/50 chances, marking etc but we can't win games if we can't win in the most important part of our 'contested' game, where we should have dominance:  stoppages.

If other clubs have 'worked out Max' we have had two years to develop counter measures. 

Lets hope our tactics, positioning and structures at stoppages improve markedly this year.

Edited March 14, 20215 yr by Lucifer's Hero

Back Rivers May Lever

HB Hibberd ATom Salem

C Langdon Oliver Baker

HF ANB Tmac Pickett

F Fritsch Jackson Chandler

R Gawn Trac Harmes

IC Brayshaw Bowey Jones Spargo

Emerg: Petty Hunt Jordon

Petty in if no May

Hunt if no Hibberd or Salem

Bedford if no Pickett.

I am not convinced with Baker on a wing but I dont see an available improvement at this time.

I have assumed Viney, B Brown, Weid and Melksham as returning but unavailable.

 

what i'm expecting:
B: Hibberd - May - Lever
HB: Hunt - Tomlinson - Rivers
C: Langdon - Petracca - Salem
HF: Jones - McDonald - Neal-Bullen
F: Fritsch - Jackson - Pickett
Foll: Gawn - Oliver - Harmes
I/c: Spargo - Brayshaw - Bowey - Jordon
Conc sub: Baker
Emerg: vandenBerg - Petty - Chandler - Jetta

what my mfcss tells me:
B: Jetta - Petty - Lever
HB: Hunt - Tomlinson - Rivers
C: Langdon - Petracca - Neal-Bullen
HF: Jones - McDonald - Spargo
F: Fritsch - Jackson - Chandler
Foll: Gawn - Oliver - Harmes
I/c: Bowey - Jordon - Sparrow - Baker
Conc sub: vandenBerg
Emerg: Bedford - Laurie - Rosman - Smith

7 hours ago, Diamond_Jim said:

the other tactic is that they just sit off our midfield and tackle the recipient who is often forced into a wayward handball. It happened repeatedly in the recent Bulldogs game.

Brings back memories of Jamar... hardly ever lost the tap but rarely hit it to advantage.

TBH I have given up on the ruck position and it just becomes an issue of whether the nominated ruck is useful in another capacity. Perhaps it's a position that will benefit from less rotations as midfielders get tired but who knows.

absolutely. Ruck taps can mean very little especially if you are winning most of them, as the opposition start reading Max's taps. Or they play defensively on our mids then it becomes a rugby stoppage type grind. 

What time does the ticketing happen?

11 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

That is a terrible trend.  No wonder we can't win games.  Those numbers are a real indictment on our game plan and structures at stoppages.

All the talk of being a 'contested team', 'winning the contest' looks like bs.  Great idea but not working in practice.

Before anyone reminds me:  yes I know that winning the contest also includes things like 'ground ball gets', 50/50 chances, marking etc but we can't win games if we can't win in the most important part of our 'contested' game, where we should have dominance:  stoppages.

If other clubs have 'worked out Max' we have had two years to develop counter measures. 

Lets hope our tactics, positioning and structures at stoppages improve markedly this year.

Spot on, they understand how to play to Gawn now.
 

Sadly, it doesn’t appear we a) have a sufficiently evolved game plan to counter this or b) sufficiently evolved undergrowth of talent to counter this. Having said that, less footy this more-season to assess than previous years.

I remember a match (can’t recall which one) several years ago where Gawn and Viney had the ball talking. Those days feel long gone.

12 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

Yep. Interesting Stafford was moved from the ruck coach role end of last year, and a little concerning we don't have someone in that role now, but hopefully Yze as midfield coach can bring some improvement. It's not been tracking the right way the last few years.

2018
Hitouts: 1st
Clearances: 3rd

2019:
Hitouts: 3rd
Clearances: 8th

2020
Hitouts: 3rd
Clearances: 15th

 

Are those clearance numbers totals or differentials?

Anyone think we will win?

11 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

Anyone think we will win?

Yes. Less optimistic about the following week though, ‘aints  might touch us up.

Edited March 14, 20215 yr by The Jackson 6

21 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

The problem has been for a while though that the ruck dominance hasn't been translating into clearances.

 

Don't be surprised if Petracca starts fwd and plays most of his time there rd1!

1 hour ago, Clint Bizkit said:

Anyone think we will win?

Melbourne are favorites.. so historically. No

10 minutes ago, Doug Reemer said:

Don't be surprised if Petracca starts fwd and plays most of his time there rd1!

Doubt it

1 hour ago, Clint Bizkit said:

Anyone think we will win?

Yep. Confident about being 3-0 too.

2 minutes ago, Clintosaurus said:

Yep. Confident about being 3-0 too.

3 goals straight! Nice ?