In defence of Dwayne a little the segment was based on Leppitsch saying rucks are the least valuable position on the ground.

Which honestly might still be true to an extent. Although the 3rd tall at either end, the 5th best mid and the 7th best forward or back gets an easy run sometimes. No one ever says don’t draft a 3rd string forward flanker early!

But it’s still one of the key positions to have a player who doesn’t get destroyed. Getting smashed in the ruck is still the fastest way to lose a game.

Leppitsch himself is probably undervaluing Toby Nankervis who has been a warrior for the Tigers. Just because Nankervis was cheap and underrated doesn’t make him bad or easy to replicate.

The conversation should be that hit outs are overrated. It’s the least valuable part of Gawn’s game, which really is built on around the ground marking, follow up and positioning. And Jackson’s game is based on follow up and athleticism. 

He absolutely can be a ruckman, which Dwayne was incorrectly worried about. He’s just not going to be a hit out machine. And he’s hopefully going to be more than a ruckman too. I’d love to see him play CHF with a summer of Ben Brown teaching him leading craft.

Max comes to bench, says “leave Jacko in the ruck”

Garry Lyon said that a new definition needs to be found for the role Jacko played.  I agree it wasnt pure ruck, he left Martin and English near the centre circle after competing for the tap, and become another ground ball midfielder.  Mind blowing performance !

Luke Jackson and Gawn have redefined what ruckmen are in the modern game, they are now midfielders who win their own ball or create a loose man.

The problem is yesterday footballers are exactly that and if they don't keep up with the trend they never become coaches of premiership team but line coaches in areas which they played and remember their line coaches instruction and like parrots repeat.

On 8/24/2021 at 2:45 PM, Davos said:

After listening to Jackson on the Gus and Gawny podcast, I'd be extremely surprised if he ever left Melbourne.

Also, every team should be "throwing everything" at him. Kid is a freak.

I believe Dogga and most of the boys have got their MFC tattoos today … he ain’t going nowhere. 

2 minutes ago, KysaiahMessiah said:

Garry Lyon said that a new definition needs to be found for the role Jacko played.  I agree it wasnt pure ruck, he left Martin and English near the centre circle after competing for the tap, and become another ground ball midfielder.  Mind blowing performance !

It reminds me of the way they spoke about Natanui early on, and although he plays that way at times, early predictions never really came to fruition. Jacko is certainly playing that way at the moment, a true freak.

Can we employ Dwayne as an anti-talent scout?

Basically we recruit all the kids that he says won't make it.

 

I'm one like Leppitsch and Beveridge that haven't rated rucks. I'm on record as calling it a junk position, but as others are saying, Jackson has reimagined what a ruck role looks like and has elevated it as a position to exploit.

I keep hearing people say Jackson jumped over the top of English. That's not how I see it at all. He simply halved the contest, ensured the tap didn't go wide and dropped at his feet. From there he became a midfielder and that's his strength because most midfielders, let alone rucks, cannot compete with his athleticism. 

As for Dwayne, he'd be hating Melbourne's recent success. He won't know what to do with himself. Has been a long time hater.

Edited September 30, 20213 yr by A F

1 minute ago, A F said:

I'm one like Leppitsch and Beveridge that haven't rated rucks. I'm on record as calling it a junk position, but as others are saying, Jackson has reimagined what a ruck role looks like and has elevated it as a position to exploit.

I keep hearing people say Jackson jumped over the top of English. That's not how I see it at all. He simply halved the contest, ensured the tap didn't go wide and dropped at his feet. From there he became a midfielder and that's his strength because most rucks cannot compete with his athleticism. 

As for Dwayne, he'd be hating Melbourne's recent success. He won't know what to do with himself. Has been a long time hater.

I've been the same mate. Watching Jackson go about on the weekend was simply impressive as you'll see from a ruck performance.  Same as the Gawn performance in the prelim.

4 minutes ago, A F said:

I'm one like Leppitsch and Beveridge that haven't rated rucks. I'm on record as calling it a junk position, but as others are saying, Jackson has reimagined what a ruck role looks like and has elevated it as a position to exploit.

I keep hearing people say Jackson jumped over the top of English. That's not how I see it at all. He simply halved the contest, ensured the tap didn't go wide and dropped at his feet. From there he became a midfielder and that's his strength because most midfielders, let alone rucks, cannot compete with his athleticism. 

As for Dwayne, he'd be hating Melbourne's recent success. He won't know what to do with himself. Has been a long time hater.

Dwayne - Geelong and Port Adelaide both embarrassed at the pointy end and MFC won the flag!

Lepper is at pies , good luck Grundy et al

3 minutes ago, Satan said:

Lepper is at pies , good luck Grundy et al

He is?

1 hour ago, Wilbur said:

So who else feels like giving Dwayne a call? 

Why would I voluntarily subject myself to Derwayne’s voice?

2 minutes ago, A F said:

He is?

Hating to link to pies site might have virus

https://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/news/1016639/leppitsch-and-bolton-arrive-at-the-pies

18 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

I've been the same mate. Watching Jackson go about on the weekend was simply impressive as you'll see from a ruck performance.  Same as the Gawn performance in the prelim.

And at only 19 he will get better. Scary stuff for the opposition.

Just sign him on for the next decade, now!

Jackson is an inside mid, just may as well play him as a ruck to fit him in the centre bounce

2 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

In defence of Dwayne a little the segment was based on Leppitsch saying rucks are the least valuable position on the ground.

 

It is, until you come up against a team with dominant ruckmen who can play wing, back or forward and take contested marks, as well as dominate hitouts. Like the team that won the flag on Saturday.

Then suddenly your least valuable position becomes your most valuable position, and you are sad that your ruckmen are trash. 

5 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

It is, until you come up against a team with dominant ruckmen who can play wing, back or forward and take contested marks, as well as dominate hitouts. Like the team that won the flag on Saturday.

Then suddenly your least valuable position becomes your most valuable position, and you are sad that your ruckmen are trash. 

I suspect that's exactly how Chris Scott feels. And Beveridge. And many others.

Apart from his own attributes, Jackson's value also came from us not having to run Gawn into the ground throughout the year. That enabled Gawn to be a dominant force for the whole year rather than an exhausted workhorse.

41 minutes ago, adonski said:

Jackson is an inside mid, just may as well play him as a ruck to fit him in the centre bounce

He's inside / outside. He spreads from the contest like Oliver and Petracca do. He's a freak. Thank you, Jason Taylor.

2 hours ago, A F said:

I'm one like Leppitsch and Beveridge that haven't rated rucks. I'm on record as calling it a junk position, but as others are saying, Jackson has reimagined what a ruck role looks like and has elevated it as a position to exploit.

I keep hearing people say Jackson jumped over the top of English. That's not how I see it at all. He simply halved the contest, ensured the tap didn't go wide and dropped at his feet. From there he became a midfielder and that's his strength because most midfielders, let alone rucks, cannot compete with his athleticism. 

As for Dwayne, he'd be hating Melbourne's recent success. He won't know what to do with himself. Has been a long time hater.

I feel like Bevo and Chris Scott and the coaches that don't invest in old school ruckman are philosophically on the right track because why get a dinosaur type if you can try to find an extra midfielder.

Chris Scott loves Blicavs, he's routinely at the top of the Cats B+F. Bevo really liked what Roughead and Boyd did and they've been chasing Stef Martin for years because in his prime he could hold up in the hit outs and provided a lot around the ground.

The question is should you chase the hope of an extra mid when it's more hope than reality. Tim English and Rhys Stanley are both rucks who on their best days look similar to what Jackson can be, they just don't always have their best days. So do you just suck it up and get yourself an old war horse type. Someone like John Ceglar is never going to be considered an extra midfielder but his size and strength would make life harder in the actual ruck contest for Jacko to just halve it then follow up.

It's funny how these coaches get the reputation for not rating rucks when it could be they're just too desperate for the perfect ruck and not appreciative enough for an honest battler. They player they all want in the ruck is the player Jackson is hopefully becoming. 

Maybe tap work as a single entity is rightly de-valued now, but the role of ruckman should never be. After a goal, boundary throw in, or in-play stoppage the entire game stops and teams can reset. This resetting happens around a great big human being who acts as a 360 degree hub for the midfield to generate possession. 

Great rucks have a dominance at ball-ups, and a significant skill in general play. Jackson is actually only a slightly above average tap ruckman, but as a hub for the midfield to gather possession, he is ridiculously good - especially considering he only just turned 20. As soon as the ruck clash is halved he is a 200cm midfield with ridiculous athleticism. 

He is a nonce. Pure nonce. HateS Melbourne and can go eat a bag as he watches Dogga dominate for the Dees for years to come.

Lyon talked about a new term, I haven’t nailed it yet, Ariel Midfielder, Tapping Mid, etc, anyway, Strong rucks have always been essential in finals, the only exception was when there could be a 3rd man up. Right now between all our players, that other teams want Gawn and Jackson would be at the top of the tree. Nothing will throw other teams balance off like trying to cover two mobile dominant big men, when teams are lucky to have one. Two aces to quote Ted. (There is so much Ted about Melbourne right now.) 

Will never forgive Dwayne Russell for his commentary from the Geelong vs Melbourne game when we got thumped. Seemed to take delight it what was happening.

Said it was the clubs "last supper".