2 hours ago, Pates said:

That said I would personally be keener for us to trade in a mature player who has a proven record in that position

Hard to disagree with with - but given that "proven, mature, winger" is a tiny talent pool, the chances of there being a Smith Mk 2 must be close to zero.

Lachie Hunter is the best wingman in the game atm...! His possessions have a genuine impact on a game. Gettable? I think so...! Dogs move Hunter and Dunkley stays...

From left field, Liam Duggan is a player we should sound out for a wing! He is the right age and beautiful user of the ball. Took his game to another level this year and will only get better...
 

Oscar Baker and James Jordon are two players we should be grooming this preseason for the wing! 
 

I don't know what people are expecting with the trade period.  We have limited draft picks in 2020 to use for trades, the players we have up for trade are 3rd and 4th round picks, we might get a late second for Preuss.  Most likely we will need to trade our first draft pick 25 at the moment(this will become a early 30's pick) to North for Brown.  I would rather us keep our 2021 picks, this draft has so many uncertainties with Covid and the NGA bids.

Hopefully we can get 3 picks in that 30-50 range or better, plus Brown, keep our 2021 picks, offload Tmac/Omac/Hannan/ANB/Preuss.  I can see us being involved in pick trading to improve our draft position.

Like most would love another small forward, a wingman but as mentioned we don't really have a lot to offer up.  We might need to work hard at improving who we have draft 3 more players in plus the key forward.  

If we don't trade Tmac can he play on the wing ?if he gets his body right

10 hours ago, WERRIDEE said:

It doesn't look like we are going for Philips I think we will go for wingman and a small forward in the draft. So this is my rolling team for 21.

B: SALEM, MAY, LEVER

HB: RIVERS, TOMLINSON, HIBBERD

C : LANGDON, PETRACCA, BAKER

HF: FRITSCH, JACKSON, MELKSHAM

F: PICKETT, B.BROWN, WEIDEMAN

FOLL: GAWN, OLIVER, VINEY

IC: BRAYSHAW, JONES, HUNT, HORE

EMERG: HARMES, VANDENBERG, M.BROWN, SPARGO

Pretty strong team on paper, I don't mind if they back in Baker at minimum he's quick and highly competitive, thats a good start. A preseason with Langdon should do him the world of good. A pacy small forward should be on the cards draft or trade in, probably taking malkshams spot

36 minutes ago, don't make me angry said:

If we don't trade Tmac can he play on the wing ?if he gets his body right

No, if Tom stays he has to accept there is competition for his spot up forward and needs to get back to his best form to gain his spot.  The club needs that internal pressure for positions, Tom needs to accept the challenge and win his spot up forward.  

I do wonder what happened to our planning when we saw that Ben Brown was gettable for unders and would solve our biggest problem. With no round 1 pick and what appears to be a relatively tight cap I assume we have had to adjust our plans accordingly. I would suggest anything else we may choose to do will be how much if any of TMac’s salary we can lose. Otherwise with the mature players we are likely to shed keen to see us make some astute selections from others lists to better fill roles we have available. We dont need stars we need consistent role players worth their salary week in week out.

17 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

I'm wondering if this means we have no serious takers for TMac or if we do it doesn't get us enough currency in Sal cap space or picks to do much with.

I'm guessing if we have a taker for him we will take the deal to reset our list and sal cap balance going fwd (to next year).

It also suggests we will keep our 2021 pics which is great as it is touted to be an excellent draft, unencumbered by too many Academy and F/S picks.

If it were up to you LH would you take him on?Looks busted to me and oppo clubs would be wary

I think the fact that Mahoney didn't mention AVB but did mention Baker, Hunt, Tomlinson and Harmes for the wing position, suggests they are looking to move AVB. There might be legs to the rumour he may be packaged with Preuss to GWS

2 minutes ago, Kent said:

If it were up to you LH would you take him on?Looks busted to me and oppo clubs would be wary

I would.

Not sure why he fell out of favour this year or what caused his fitness to drop.  Hard to know whether the weight gain was a sports science initiative or Tom's standards dropped.

He has a few good years left and has value if a team want a 'swing man'.  In that respect he gives a coach versatility.  As a defender a different coach may use him differently to we did and try and neutralise his weaknesses.  Not sure the pure zone defence we used in 2017 suited him. 

3 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

I would.

Not sure why he fell out of favour this year or what caused his fitness to drop.  Hard to know whether the weight gain was a sports science initiative or Tom's standards dropped.

He has a few good years left and has value if a team want a 'swing man'.  In that respect he gives a coach versatility.  As a defender a different coach may use him differently to we did and try and neutralise his weaknesses.  Not sure the pure zone defence we used in 2017 suited him. 

Understand your view

But oppo clubs would be wary and probably look at him as a defender

Hard to see where we would use him once we have BB

1 hour ago, don't make me angry said:

If we don't trade Tmac can he play on the wing ?if he gets his body right

From what we saw last year, this is the least likely thing that could happen. If any pace were required in a wingman, the question answers itself.

Mahoney continues to impress me. He is candid, competent, pragmatic and direct in his communications.

I can’t understand some of the criticism he receives here.

 

Every year it's the same. "When will Mahoney DO something?" and then at the end of the period we've been very active.

It's quite interesting that the pro T-Mac crew on here all gush about his performance in 2018 yet the sides looking to bring him in all seem to want him for defense. Opposition opinion on players is always a little more realistic

1 hour ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

I would.

Not sure why he fell out of favour this year or what caused his fitness to drop.  Hard to know whether the weight gain was a sports science initiative or Tom's standards dropped.

He has a few good years left and has value if a team want a 'swing man'.  In that respect he gives a coach versatility.  As a defender a different coach may use him differently to we did and try and neutralise his weaknesses.  Not sure the pure zone defence we used in 2017 suited him. 

I think this is my perspective too, except that Im not sure he will be able to do it at Melbourne.

Sometimes a fresh start is needed. Whether for personal motivation, confidence, trust from team mates, different internal perceptions/expectations, etc.

After going back, then forward then battling for form, TMac will struggle to reach his best at the MFC again. Bringing in Brown and publicly shopping him is a vote of no confidence (or at least uncertainty) from his coaches.

 

What frustrates me most about this thread is that Mahoney's core message is something we should all agree with, but most don't.

That core message is "we need to drive improvement from the players who are currently on our list". 

For too long trade period has rolled around and we've all crossed our fingers and sweated on the club bringing in someone, or multiple players, who are going to change everything for us.

Additions to the list from other clubs make a difference, but IMO they re usually closer to the icing on the cake rather than the cake itself.

18 hours ago, Redleg said:

4 players delisted. 6-8 more possible trades or delisted. That is 10-12 off the list. Brown in. That is 9-11 spots. AFL reduce lists by 2, that is 7-9 spots. We are drafting 7-9 players? No we are not.

We will pick up a few more players in the next 10 days. We won’t  go to the draft with more than 4-5 selections.

So far only 1 senior list player has been delisted (J Wagner). 

Hannan, OMac, Bedford and Jordon remain out of contract whilst Preuss and TMac appear odds on to leave. If they all go, that's seven players off the senior list in total.

Brown takes one spot. Assume Lockhart gets an upgrade to the senior list. That leaves five spots. And that's before the AFL cuts the list size down.

There's not as much room at the moment as your post suggests.

3 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

What frustrates me most about this thread is that Mahoney's core message is something we should all agree with, but most don't.

That core message is "we need to drive improvement from the players who are currently on our list". 

For too long trade period has rolled around and we've all crossed our fingers and sweated on the club bringing in someone, or multiple players, who are going to change everything for us.

Additions to the list from other clubs make a difference, but IMO they re usually closer to the icing on the cake rather than the cake itself.

I agree with what you are saying, but our inability to develop players from within is why everyone gets so frustrated.

No one will be able to convince me our depth is good when we regularly have 6-8 blokes in our 22 who contribute so little. We need to bring others in because what we have just is not good enough

3 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

That core message is "we need to drive improvement from the players who are currently on our list". 

Of course that should be the case, but who are the players who have improved over the past two years?

Petracca obviously this year, but precious few others. Most have regressed. Fritsch is our only draft pick from 2016 - 2018 playing regularly. Aside from Petty, you could delist all of the others and I wouldn't argue.

Our development coaches are failing miserably in their number one area of focus, so we have to make significant improvements via the trade period.

If Brown and McKernan are the only players we are up to our eyeballs in I’ll be pretty disappointed 

 

1 hour ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Mahoney continues to impress me. He is candid, competent, pragmatic and direct in his communications.

I can’t understand some of the criticism he receives here.

 

Agree, and it's ridiculous to expect any List Manager to be overly open, especially when they don't even know what currency they have to bargain with. In Mahoney's case with no clarity as to what picks we may be receiving  (or may not if no trade is agreed) for Pruess, Hannan, ANB, T.Mac, O.Mac and possibly others?

I'm not as worried as some if we don't trade in a wingman. 

We have tried that (KK, Tomlinson, chased I.Smith) but for a variety of reasons it hasn't worked out.  But we haven't taken the 'home-grown' path.  I don't mean we haven't tried players, we have but without much success probably because they were not developed as wingmen.  I mean we haven't invested serious development into specific players for that role. 

My read is that we will now take the 'home-grown' path.  Mahoney mentioned a few names and we have yet to see what Jordon (if re-contracted) or Nietschke can do.  So quite a few to select from.

If Brisbane can re-make Mitch Robinson (who is not fast) into an excellent wingman there is no reason why we can't develop an existing player to be the same.

I wonder if Yze has looked at the list and identified a player or two he can develop for the wing.  If anyone can he can.

Edited November 3, 20204 yr by Lucifer's Hero

I think Mahoney has done reasonably well.

His big task now is to reduce our wasted money by trading out TMac and any other mid category contracts with players  that are'nt playing top 26 football.

As seen with Collingwood and Grundy, De Goey and Treloar its not hard to get bogged down in player payments. How do Collingwood improve their list? They have to get money off their books before they can look at bringing anyone in.

We have some difficult contracts coming up, and trying to keep our talent together won't be easy, for us to have the ability to bring in Brown on a mid-high pay packet means Mahoney and his team must be doing a reasonable job. But his head will swing if we get into a Collingwood type scenario trying to keep our talent. There are problems in our payment structure ( TMac and Harmes and maybe others ) but up to and including this off season he has done a good job, he just needs to get Toms money off our books and move onto securing the likes of Trac and Clarrie  for their next contracts.

I don’t expect our list manager to show his hand to all, before the Poker Game begins....