Love Sam and I really want him to succeed but he is not quite there right now, and not clunking his marks.

I have no doubt he will be a good forward, but we have to try Brown again at some stage, so Sam has to go back and work on his craft for a few more weeks, and if Brown fails then he will be right back in.

‘At least we are giving both opportunities to grab that spot.

Better to experiment on the right forward combo now than just before finals.

Happy to go with him again but the patience is wearing. Needs to do more 

Its not how much we need to stick with Weid, and the pressure on him is unfortunately enormous. There are 2 other important aspects. Goody gives each player not winning his spot at least 4 weeks. Time fades away.

The other thing is; What is fair to Ben Brown who has a 4 year contract? I think that we need to give BBB 4 weeks and have Sam as Sub. Else we need to try Dogga (or Sam) on a wing. It was discussed for TMac so why not bring these 2 into the equation?

4 hours ago, London Demon said:

Re the last  post exactly.  As I said KP forwards take years. 
 

And he’s had years. 

1 hour ago, jnrmac said:

Clunk it well? It was a chest mark

Yeah ok.  Fair call Jnr.

...but you know what I meant. ?

14 minutes ago, Damo said:

Its not how much we need to stick with Weid, and the pressure on him is unfortunately enormous. There are 2 other important aspects. Goody gives each player not winning his spot at least 4 weeks. Time fades away.

The other thing is; What is fair to Ben Brown who has a 4 year contract? I think that we need to give BBB 4 weeks and have Sam as Sub. Else we need to try Dogga (or Sam) on a wing. It was discussed for TMac so why not bring these 2 into the equation?

Why would you move Langdon or Brayshaw off the wing where they are both playing well just to try and manufacture a way to keep an underperforming player in the team.

He took 3 marks but also provided a contest which resulted in a number of goals in particular with Pickett, also laid of a few handballs, tackles so apart from missed shots played well. Better option than BB at this stage.

4 hours ago, Redleg said:

Agree.

Our forward entries were haphazard last night and he was contesting against several defenders, including one of the best Defenders in the game.

Did you notice whose hands the Pickett goal off the front of the pack came from, it actually looked a set play?

I recall the get rid of Tom Mac, Hunt, Spargo , Petty and  Jordon ( who hadn’t played a game) calls and where are they playing now?

I was one who wanted ANB gone and I was wrong. Yes he still makes mistakes but he has been a good contributor to our success.

Put your hands up if you wanted Goody gone?

Too many on here judge too quickly and frankly, wrongly.

And generally it’s the same usual suspects calling for Weid to be dropped and/or traded.

We got 3 goals last night directly from Weid vs Andrews in contests and bringing the ball to ground

3 hours ago, deanox said:

TMac turns 29 in September. Ben Brown turns 29 in November. Mitch Brown will be 31 in August. Add to that Max is 30 at the end of this year.

Other than Sam we don't have any KPFs coming through. At nearly 24, he is about to hit his best years. And even if his best is not super star, we are going to need key forwarded on the list over the next 3 years.

I think that unless we get massive offered massive overs for his value, and have a plan for accelerated development of other forward depth, it is pretty critical we keep Sam for the next few years. At worst as depth during what should be a successful period, and best because he will be needed to step up as others drop off.

 

Totally agree.

But there also comes a point with his current form where you need to ask, is it doing the right thing by him and the rest of the team to keep playing him without an appropriate level of performance from him.

Personally I thought the noise that we just had to play him due to his VFL form or risk loosing him to another club was pretty overblown.  If he wanted to walk to join a weaker team for more money and oppertunity, then best he be gone.  I personally didn't and still don't get the impression that was a significant risk on behalf of Weid.  I personally think he's more invested in the team and sucess than to shophimself around at this point.  And he'd played what 3 or 4 good games at Casey without getting a call up - hardly despiration stakes kind of stuff.

Despite his lack of dominance, I also though Ben Brown's performances at both Casey and AFL level were serviceable and at his best, he's an outright gun of a forward, so I'd have no issues with him being promoted back up to senior level.  Similarly, I very much get the impression that BBB has the kind of level head and maturity that if he has to improve his game at Casey and bang the door down for the next 6 weeks, that he'd take that on the chin and just get on with it and do whatever he could to get himself right.

From seeing what both BBB and Weid are capable of (mainly his solid form last year for Weid), I think it's somewhat just a matter of confidence and the challenge of an injury interupted start to the season that both these guys are struggling with and have reasonable faith they will turn their fortunes around with further game time.

Where ever this ends up, I think the MFC is in a great position to have such good depth and competition for key forward spots.

Edited June 5, 20213 yr by Rodney (Balls) Grinter

2 minutes ago, Pennant St Dee said:

And generally it’s the same usual suspects calling for Weid to be dropped and/or traded.

We got 3 goals last night directly from Weid vs Andrews in contests and bringing the ball to ground

Weid might have been better if he took Andrews away from the contest rather than to it

1 minute ago, Kent said:

Weid might have been better if he took Andrews away from the contest rather than to it

Or kept him away from being second man in on Tmac and the resting ruc???

Each game Weed plays adds to his trade value.

56 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

And he’s had years. 

Under what type of development? 

MFC have let Weideman down, monumentally. If we're going to point fingers, it needs to be right at the club, not at Weideman.  

3 minutes ago, Ham said:

Under what type of development? 

MFC have let Weideman down, monumentally. If we're going to point fingers, it needs to be right at the club, not at Weideman.  

I think the last couple of years have been different. A lot of people aren’t saying trade him, we’re simply saying drop him. Before last night’s game it was his marking “he’s getting to contests but they’re just not sticking”, but last night his kicking was off too. Full forward is a key position, no one would have us where we are without a settled forward line. Just because we’ve been winning doesn’t mean we can’t improve. As people have also mentioned someone might have an off game but other players star. He’s had 4 games now and done very little. I would like to see Ben Brown give a run of 4-6 games to let him settle into the side. 

Weid is going OK. He's jumping, competing and we're kicking goals because of it. 

People would still complain when Brayshaw didn't win enough footy until Daisy Pearce spelled out to everyone how well he played his role. Everyone hated on Spargo forever. Lever copped it. ANB too. Even Viney cops it.

There's a reason why footy clubs say that they don't listen to what supporters or the media say .... it's because they generally don't know what they're talking about.

1 hour ago, Nasher said:

I don’t think the jury is in yet. I can’t believe that a 23 year old forward has no prospect at rectifying the deficiencies in his game. 

I guess we will see at selection this week whether Goodwin shares your view that he’s unviable.

OK so I'll ask you two questions.

1. What does he have in his game aside from the fact he is tall?

2. How long do you think we should give him if his exposed 'assets' remain the same?

32 minutes ago, Ham said:

Under what type of development? 

MFC have let Weideman down, monumentally. If we're going to point fingers, it needs to be right at the club, not at Weideman.  

 

Edited June 5, 20213 yr by drysdale demon
deleted

22 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

I think the last couple of years have been different. A lot of people aren’t saying trade him, we’re simply saying drop him. Before last night’s game it was his marking “he’s getting to contests but they’re just not sticking”, but last night his kicking was off too. Full forward is a key position, no one would have us where we are without a settled forward line. Just because we’ve been winning doesn’t mean we can’t improve. As people have also mentioned someone might have an off game but other players star. He’s had 4 games now and done very little. I would like to see Ben Brown give a run of 4-6 games to let him settle into the side. 

You didn't address the point I made, at all.

Weideman hasn't had ANY decent development at all. He contacted J. Brown in the off-season for 'advice'. Whenever that's happening (like King going to Lloyd) it's a sign that SOMETHING IS WRONG (and clearly in the St. Kilda case, they didn't like it, so they put a line through it). Put the correct people at the club (like they have in every other facet it would seem) and we may see some improvement with the development of Weideman. 

Why do we have a ruckman as our forward/kicking coach?

The reason we're winning is our defence.

The reason we aren't putting teams away by 50-80+ is because we have a ruckman as our forward/kicking coach.

Edited June 5, 20213 yr by Ham

36 minutes ago, Bring Back Barassi said:

Each game Weed plays adds to his trade value.

He won't be traded

1 hour ago, Pennant St Dee said:

And generally it’s the same usual suspects calling for Weid to be dropped and/or traded.

We got 3 goals last night directly from Weid vs Andrews in contests and bringing the ball to ground

Having now watched the replay he should have had 2 goals. Add those to his tally and all of a sudden he been good. 

15 minutes ago, Axis of Bob said:

Weid is going OK. He's jumping, competing and we're kicking goals because of it. 

People would still complain when Brayshaw didn't win enough footy until Daisy Pearce spelled out to everyone how well he played his role. Everyone hated on Spargo forever. Lever copped it. ANB too. Even Viney cops it.

There's a reason why footy clubs say that they don't listen to what supporters or the media say .... it's because they generally don't know what they're talking about.

Couldn't agree more.

13 minutes ago, Axis of Bob said:

Weid is going OK. He's jumping, competing and we're kicking goals because of it. 

People would still complain when Brayshaw didn't win enough footy until Daisy Pearce spelled out to everyone how well he played his role. Everyone hated on Spargo forever. Lever copped it. ANB too. Even Viney cops it.

There's a reason why footy clubs say that they don't listen to what supporters or the media say .... it's because they generally don't know what they're talking about.

"people' would complain. Nice straw man argument.

You were backing them on OMac too. How did that go?

Sam could be anything. He's a world better than OMac for example. But 5 1/2 yrs he has shown very little. Even Max showed something to keep himself on the list after 5/6 yrs.

Would be interesting with Sam if we were losing games. The calls would be much louder for him to go and for Sideshow to come in.

 

 

I remember hearing Luke Hodge saying that Harris Andrews was clearly the best defender he had played with... that is an amazing achievement given how good Hawthorns defence was for a very long time. Before this game I was thinking it’s good to have someone like Weid in because Andrews would HAVE TO follow him which draws Andrews away from our other forward.

Give the Weid another crack against the pies to see what he can do. Key Forwards tend to have games where something clicks and their form becomes more stable. I remember when Hawkins was starting to find form after just doing ‘his role’ for quite a few years. About Weids age.
 

Also, I completely trust the coaching staff in their decision making... 11-1 has earned that. So if they’re happy to keep Weid in then so am I.

It's worth remembering that Weed hasn't even played 50 games yet.

I reckon he'll improve considerably and I'd back him in to do so.

@Ham

My take on Sam, is that his development hasn't stalled, he has had numerous injuries over the course of numerous years and this has impacted on his continuity. Also, neither am I expecting him to be a big dog so to speak (Hawkins Kennedy, Lynch) in his role in the forward line.

Just on Stafford as coach, why would a professional club employ someone in a role if they're not fit for the purpose, and then continue on the knowledge that that person is not fit for purpose?

What's your take on Stafford and what he brings to the table?