Ruckmen are now proven to be the least important player in the modern game. Clubs have shown you can win without even playing a designated ruckman anymore. This year the Bulldogs played 189cm midfielder Josh Dunkley in the ruck against Max Gawn for long stretches of the match and not only broke even in clearances, they actually scored more from stoppages than we did!

Pruess coming to Melbourne made sense for our club, as we had no ruck backup for Max. It was baffling decision for him as a player though to go to a club where he'd never get a game in his desired position unless bad injury struck. At a club like GWS or Sydney, he'd be first ruck and play every game barring injury.

If we can trade Pruess for a second round pick or a best 22 player then we should absolutely trade him. We have others now like Jackson, Weid, Tomlinson etc who can provide ruck backup when required. 

2 hours ago, Demon Disciple said:

If we’re willing to let him go, what was the purpose of bringing him in in the first place?

All of a sudden we don’t need back up for Gawn (who has needed time off for injuries and rest just about every year).

Jackson way too young and inexperienced, Bradtke not even close.

A late first rounder/early second which we could onsell for Gunston?

Smart actually bring in a player then on trade him for a profit ( draft picks or players)

Pruess came to MFC as a backup for Max and to learn ruck craft from max and Stafford who is a highly regarded ruck coach. Added bonus this year is Burgess got him really fit. He showed he could now be a clubs number 1 ruckman and if he want to move for greater opportunity good luck to him. There is a guy in Queensland out of contract this year who could not get a game this year at Gold Coast. If Pruess leaves maybe consider 2 metre Peter as the back up who plays as a forward.

4 minutes ago, Lord Travis said:

Ruckmen are now proven to be the least important player in the modern game. Clubs have shown you can win without even playing a designated ruckman anymore. This year the Bulldogs played 189cm midfielder Josh Dunkley in the ruck against Max Gawn for long stretches of the match and not only broke even in clearances, they actually scored more from stoppages than we did!

Pruess coming to Melbourne made sense for our club, as we had no ruck backup for Max. It was baffling decision for him as a player though to go to a club where he'd never get a game in his desired position unless bad injury struck. At a club like GWS or Sydney, he'd be first ruck and play every game barring injury.

If we can trade Pruess for a second round pick or a best 22 player then we should absolutely trade him. We have others now like Jackson, Weid, Tomlinson etc who can provide ruck backup when required. 

Unless of course - Preuss and the club agreed it was an apprenticeship under Max (which may come with a version of cache in itself...learning from the best in the business) whereby he was the understudy, filling in when required, with a view to move on, when the time was right for both parties. 

Edited September 24, 20204 yr by Engorged Onion

It depends where Bradtke is at and I don't think any of us know that.  He'll be 21 at the start of next season so should be ready for some AFL ruck load if he's going to make it.  If Max got a long term injury we would not want to ruck Jackson full time - at 19-20yo that could break his body and ruin his career.  But if we believed that he could share the load with Bradtke if necessary then that would pave the way for Preuss trade.

As someone else pointed out to me - if GWS are interested then a trade for Bobby Hill or Brent Daniels would work!

Might there be a juicy first rounder we could upgrade our second rounder to ??

2 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

The Club has to be shrewd here. We need a back up for Max who can also kick goals up forward

Tmac is not able to do both

I thought we should have looked at Ryder last year. He and Gawn would have been  a nighmare match up. Hard to find rucks who kick goals but Max resting forward with another ruckman who can cover the ground and complete is a tactic worth trying. I remeber the panic opposition Clubs went into when Sandilands was plonked forward. Height in the forward 30 metres frome goals makes backs nervous.

13 minutes ago, Pollyanna said:

As someone else pointed out to me - if GWS are interested then a trade for Bobby Hill or Brent Daniels would work!

Would sign in a heartbeat. Hill is a first round talent who can't solidify his spot due to GWS embarrassing riches of talent in their midfield and forward half. It'd solve our small issues for the next 10 years to have Pickett and Hill harassing and crumbing. Both have midfield potential too. 

Preuss for Ben Ronke. Both players on the outer. Fills a need for both clubs. If not a pick in that 30-40 range would be ideal considering how both these Sydney clubs are in that desparate need of a ruck.

To anyone who might know - has Bradkte shown even the slightest possibility so far of making it at AFL level?  I know he is a project player, but from the small sample size I have, I don't think he is someone we could rely upon right now.

18 minutes ago, buck_nekkid said:

Might there be a juicy first rounder we could upgrade our second rounder to ??

Preuss for late 2nd. Bundle that with our Hawks 2nd for Bulldogs pick 8. Or 2 x 2nd plus a future 2nd for 8.

Dogs will need to offload pick 8 for points to get Ugle-Hagan

Top end of draft is apparently good, even though there are a number of academy/fs selections there

2 hours ago, Demons11 said:

An early 2nd rd pick for a player who is very limited and only played a handful games in 2 years?  Late 2nd or early 3rd I’d say is fair value.  

For a ruckmen, who notoriously take 5+ years to develop and fill an immediate need on many lists right now.... Yes early second rounder will be a minimum. 

Take a look at the Rhys Stanley trade 5 or so years ago. 

Something like P60 and stanley for P20. He too was contracted and he too filled a ruck void for Geelong.

Midfielders and flankers grow on trees, 200 cm big men who possess some sort of football ability (all be it limited) do not.

43 minutes ago, Lord Travis said:

Ruckmen are now proven to be the least important player in the modern game. Clubs have shown you can win without even playing a designated ruckman anymore. This year the Bulldogs played 189cm midfielder Josh Dunkley in the ruck against Max Gawn for long stretches of the match and not only broke even in clearances, they actually scored more from stoppages than we did!

Pruess coming to Melbourne made sense for our club, as we had no ruck backup for Max. It was baffling decision for him as a player though to go to a club where he'd never get a game in his desired position unless bad injury struck. At a club like GWS or Sydney, he'd be first ruck and play every game barring injury.

If we can trade Pruess for a second round pick or a best 22 player then we should absolutely trade him. We have others now like Jackson, Weid, Tomlinson etc who can provide ruck backup when required. 

Exactly where I stand on this. The ruck position is vastly overrated.

8 minutes ago, GCDee said:

For a ruckmen, who notoriously take 5+ years to develop and fill an immediate need on many lists right now.... Yes early second rounder will be a minimum. 

Take a look at the Rhys Stanley trade 5 or so years ago. 

Something like P60 and stanley for P20. He too was contracted and he too filled a ruck void for Geelong.

Midfielders and flankers grow on trees, 200 cm big men who possess some sort of football ability (all be it limited) do not.

Yeah, not sure about that one. You can just as easily get a decent competitor in the ruck off the rookie list.

Just now, A F said:

Yeah, not sure about that one. You can just as easily get a decent competitor in the ruck off the rookie list.

You do that and your left with Matty Eagles as your ruckmen for a flag tilt.

Answers the question why there are 3+ teams pushing for the contracted Pruess signature. 

If your in the window, you need a ruck. 

40 minutes ago, Pollyanna said:

It depends where Bradtke is at and I don't think any of us know that.  He'll be 21 at the start of next season so should be ready for some AFL ruck load if he's going to make it.  If Max got a long term injury we would not want to ruck Jackson full time - at 19-20yo that could break his body and ruin his career.  But if we believed that he could share the load with Bradtke if necessary then that would pave the way for Preuss trade.

As someone else pointed out to me - if GWS are interested then a trade for Bobby Hill or Brent Daniels would work!

Would love Daniels. Crafty, pressure forward.

10 minutes ago, GCDee said:

You do that and your left with Matty Eagles as your ruckmen for a flag tilt.

Answers the question why there are 3+ teams pushing for the contracted Pruess signature. 

If your in the window, you need a ruck. 

Disagree.

54 minutes ago, Lord Travis said:

Ruckmen are now proven to be the least important player in the modern game. Clubs have shown you can win without even playing a designated ruckman anymore. This year the Bulldogs played 189cm midfielder Josh Dunkley in the ruck against Max Gawn for long stretches of the match and not only broke even in clearances, they actually scored more from stoppages than we did!

 

LT, Gawn didn't play that game.  it was the third game he missed. I feel we may have seen a somewhat different outcome in the stoppages had he taken the field. That was all on Preuss and our rather pathetic midfield performance that day.

49 minutes ago, Lord Travis said:

Ruckmen are now proven to be the least important player in the modern game. Clubs have shown you can win without even playing a designated ruckman anymore. This year the Bulldogs played 189cm midfielder Josh Dunkley in the ruck against Max Gawn for long stretches of the match and not only broke even in clearances, they actually scored more from stoppages than we did!

Pruess coming to Melbourne made sense for our club, as we had no ruck backup for Max. It was baffling decision for him as a player though to go to a club where he'd never get a game in his desired position unless bad injury struck. At a club like GWS or Sydney, he'd be first ruck and play every game barring injury.

If we can trade Pruess for a second round pick or a best 22 player then we should absolutely trade him. We have others now like Jackson, Weid, Tomlinson etc who can provide ruck backup when required. 

Gawn didn’t play in the dogs game. Preuss did. And there are two ways to look at that game, one is that ruck men aren’t important and that Dunkley broke even, the other is that we failed to capitalise on this opportunity in the ruck. Preuss and the mids lacked connection in that game, he was constantly hitting it to where our mids were not and eventually Preuss resorted to just taking it out of the ruck and booting it forward, which hurt us as well as we allowed the dogs so much rebound off half-back and freedom in transition. The fact is we should’ve played better in every facet of the game against the dogs and Preuss’s previous game against North was excellent! 

Good ruckmen are key to Port, Brisbane, Geelong, West Coast and Collingwood and while Richmonds rucks aren’t setting the world on fire they still play them. That’s the top 6 teams all having key ruckman, many would argue Nick Nat is one of the most influential players in the AFL due to his ruck craft! 

We are a better team when a dominant ruckman is connecting with our mids and unless we bring in some good talls to replace TMac and Preuss we can’t afford to take the risk of trading them both. If we have Gawn, Jackson and Weideman as our only ruck/tall forward options next year we’re taking a huge risk, one injury and the good teams are going to exploit our lack of height, both in the ruck and forward, especially if we keep bombing the ball forward under pressure.

If we trade TMac and Preuss we need to be bringing in at least one key forward/back up ruck, and if we can’t, we should keep Preuss for insurance. Unless of course we get a ridiculous offer (like a Brent Daniels) for him and even then we should still be bringing in a backup ruck somehow.

1 hour ago, Cards13 said:

Not looking globally, it is a massive trend with middle to lower tier soccer, NHL, MLB clubs where they look to get young/undervalued/developing players on the books. Develop them for a time period and then offload them at a profit, whether that is financial or draft picks/player trade value. Its a business model.

I'm sure he was brought in as a back up, they now see he probably has more value as a trade and are exploring it. Good thinking by the club.

The whole move to MFC makes sense from the point of view that Preuss gets a gig as a no.1 ruck elsewhere. Could be a win for him and MFC. I wonder if he could help land one of our trade targets. GWS, ESS, NTH?

3 hours ago, GCDee said:

Given he is contracted and certainly a required player.. Anything less than a early second round pick is a big loss from our point of view. 

Watch Mahoney be the good bloke and get him to where he needs to be for a swap of third and forth round picks or some [censored] like that. 

He's a fringe player, and not a very good one at that. If we get a third round pick we'll be laughing. This has "traded for pick 78 and a future 5th round pick" written all over it.

4 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

giants-swans-among-clubs-keen-on-big-demon

"Melbourne is understood to be open to enquiries about a possible trade for the 25-year-old".

Can understand that the clubs position.

Preuss will get regular games at another club.

Not sure who will cover for Max if he gets injured.

Bradke and Jackson don't look ready.  TMac is likely gone.  We need Weideman in the fwd line.

Oh well, interesting times.

Will have to rookie an experienced ruckman if he goes, to allow LJ and Bradtke time to develop.

4 hours ago, Red and Blue realist said:

GWS are the only one of those 2 clubs with something decent to give, I'd be asking for O'Halloran who's got a fair bit of upside and is not just an inside mid, he's quick and tough but could easily play an inside/out role. We'd then free up a bit of cap space and maybe chase Peter Wright who from memory was a better junior ruck than forward, so could be more than just a handy back up but also play forward.  

Jye Caldwell? Don't know O'Halloran. Maybe both if they are better than what we have. Preuss is a valuable commodity now and there should be no fire sale.

Seriously looking forward to the ever expanding Kelly vs Salem/Tyson/Pruess/2021 draft pick debate.

Edited September 24, 20204 yr by adonski

1 hour ago, Wiseblood said:

To anyone who might know - has Bradkte shown even the slightest possibility so far of making it at AFL level?  I know he is a project player, but from the small sample size I have, I don't think he is someone we could rely upon right now.

I have seen him a few times at Casey. IMO he has no chance of ever being a good VFL ruckman let alone at AFL level. I will be surprised if he is on  the list in 2021.

Seemed good planning a couple of years ago when we brought in Preuss as Max's back-up. Why move away from that especially if we want to play Jackson forward? Seems very short-sighted..

Then again, all long-term planning goes out the window if we land a big fish like Cameron!