2020 Brownlow Medal

[BDA 22,755]

20 minutes ago, Demonland said:

Get on Matt Rowell at $26.

Good shout but I think I’ll get on Trac at $13

[Lucifers Hero 39,816]

20 minutes ago, Demonland said:

Betting for the 2021 Brownlow Medal is Open.

NEALE Lachie (BRI)

6.00

CRIPPS Patrick (CAR)

7.00

FYFE Nathan (FRE)

8.00

MARTIN Dustin (RIC)

9.00

DANGERFIELD Patrick (GEE)

11.00

BONTEMPELLI Marcus (WB)

11.00

PETRACCA Christian (MEL)

13.00

BOAK Travis (PA)

17.00

MITCHELL Tom (HAW)

21.00

STEELE Jack (STK)

21.00

ROWELL Matt (GC)

26.00

MACRAE Jackson (WB)

26.00

MERRETT Zachary (ESS)

26.00

KELLY Tim (WCE)

34.00

TRELOAR Adam (COL)

41.00

PENDLEBURY Scott (COL)

41.00

GAFF Andrew (WCE)

41.00

OLIVER Clayton (MEL)

41.00

SHIEL Dylan (ESS)

51.00

MCGRATH Andrew (ESS)

51.00

JONES Zak (STK)

51.00

KELLY Joshua (GWS)

51.00

ADAMS Taylor (COL)

51.00

GAWN Max (MEL)

51.00

SIDEBOTTOM Steele (COL)

67.00

HIGGINS Shaun (NM)

67.00

PARKER Luke (SYD)

67.00

CONIGLIO Stephen (GWS)

67.00

GRUNDY Brodie (COL)

67.00

MCCLUGGAGE Hugh (BRI)

81.00

DANIEL Caleb (WB)

81.00

WHITFIELD Lachie (GWS)

81.00

WINES Oliver (PA)

81.00

GUTHRIE Cam (GEE)

81.00

SIMPKIN Jy (NM)

101.00

LAIRD Rory (ADE)

101.00

KENNEDY Josh (SYD)

101.00

HUNTER Lachlan (WB)

101.00

CROUCH Matt (ADE)

101.00

YEO Elliot (WCE)

101.00

VINEY Jack (MEL)

101.00

SHUEY Luke (WCE)

101.00

BRAYSHAW Angus (MEL)

101.00

BILLINGS Jack (STK)

101.00

ZORKO Dayne (BRI)

101.00

SHEED Dominic (WCE)

101.00

SMITH Bailey (WB)

101.00

MENEGOLA Sam (GEE)

101.00

SCHOLL Lachlan (ADE)

151.00

BOLTON Shai (RIC)

151.00

FRANKLIN Lance (SYD)

151.00

PRESTIA Dion (RIC)

151.00

DUNKLEY Josh (WB)

151.00

COTCHIN Trent (RIC)

151.00

SELWOOD Joel (GEE)

151.00

DUNCAN Mitchell (GEE)

151.00

WALSH Sam (CAR)

151.00

HAWKINS Tom (GEE)

151.00

GREENE Toby (GWS)

151.00

NAITANUI Nicholas (WCE)

151.00

SERONG Caleb (FRE)

201.00

HEPPELL Dyson (ESS)

201.00

EDWARDS Shane (RIC)

201.00

WORPEL James (HAW)

201.00

OMEARA Jaeger (HAW)

201.00

HOPPER Jacob (GWS)

201.00

ELLIS Brandon (GC)

201.00

CRISP Jack (COL)

201.00

BUTLER Dan (STK)

201.00

ROCKLIFF Tom (PA)

201.00

GOLDSTEIN Todd (NM)

201.00

ROSS Sebastian (STK)

251.00

HANNEBERY Daniel (STK)

251.00

ZAHARAKIS David (ESS)

251.00

WELLER Lachlan (GC)

251.00

TARANTO Tim (GWS)

251.00

SMITH Devon (ESS)

251.00

SLOANE Rory (ADE)

251.00

ROZEE Connor (PA)

251.00

RIEWOLDT Jack (RIC)

251.00

REDDEN Jack (WCE)

251.00

LYONS Jarryd (BRI)

251.00

LYNCH Tom (RIC)

251.00

LLOYD Jake (SYD)

251.00

LIBERATORE Thomas (WB)

251.00

JOHANNISEN Jason (WB)

251.00

HURN Shannon (WCE)

251.00

HOULI Bachar (RIC)

251.00

HILL Bradley (STK)

251.00

CURNOW Edward (CAR)

251.00

CAMERON Jeremy (GWS)

251.00

WINGARD Chad (HAW)

251.00

PAPLEY Tom (SYD)

251.00

LAMBERT Kane (RIC)

251.00

KENNEDY Josh (WCE)

251.00

CAMERON Charlie (BRI)

251.00

DIXON Charlie (PA)

251.00

STACK Sydney (RIC)

501.00

BUDARICK Connor (GC)

501.00

PARISH Darcy (ESS)

501.00

HILL Ian (GWS)

501.00

ZIEBELL Jack (NM)

501.00

WALKER Taylor (ADE)

501.00

SWALLOW David (GC)

501.00

STRINGER Jake (ESS)

501.00

STEPHENSON Jaidyn (COL)

501.00

SICILY James (HAW)

501.00

SCULLY Tom (HAW)

501.00

LEVER Jake (MEL)

501.00

HURLEY Michael (ESS)

501.00

HOGAN Jesse (FRE)

501.00

HEWETT George (SYD)

501.00

HARMES James (MEL)

501.00

GRIMES Dylan (RIC)

501.00

GRESHAM Jade (STK)

501.00

FRANCIS Aaron (ESS)

501.00

FIORINI Brayden (GC)

501.00

ELLIOTT Jamie (COL)

501.00

DUURSMA Xavier (PA)

501.00

DUMONT Trent (NM)

501.00

DE BOER Matthew (GWS)

501.00

DANIHER Joe (ESS)

501.00

CUNNINGTON Ben (NM)

501.00

COX Mason (COL)

501.00

CADDY Josh (RIC)

501.00

BURGOYNE Shaun (HAW)

501.00

BROWN Ben (NM)

501.00

BREUST Luke (HAW)

501.00

BLAKEY Nick (SYD)

501.00

BETTS Eddie (CAR)

501.00

BARRASS Tom (WCE)

501.00

ATKINS Rory (ADE)

501.00

ANDREWS Harris (BRI)

501.00

ALIIR Aliir (SYD)

501.00

MUNDY David (FRE)

501.00

KEAYS Ben (ADE)

501.00

WEITERING Jacob (CAR)

501.00

PARFITT Brandan (GEE)

501.00

OBRIEN Reilly (ADE)

501.00

FRITSCH Bayley (MEL)

501.00

PICKETT Marlion (RIC)

501.00

WITTS Jarrod (GC)

501.00

WARD Callan (GWS)

501.00

STEVEN Jack (GEE)

501.00

SHIELS Liam (HAW)

501.00

RAMPE Dane (SYD)

501.00

MURPHY Marc (CAR)

501.00

M-TIPUNGWUTI Anthony (ESS)

501.00

MOORE Darcy (COL)

501.00

MILLS Callum (SYD)

501.00

MCGOVERN Mitch (CAR)

501.00

HIPWOOD Eric (BRI)

501.00

HIMMELBERG Harrison (GWS)

501.00

GUNSTON Jack (HAW)

501.00

GREENWOOD Hugh (GC)

501.00

GRAY Robbie (PA)

501.00

DE GOEY Jordan (COL)

501.00

DARLING Jack (WCE)

501.00

Top 5:  Neale, Cripps, Fyfe, Martin, Dangerfield.  I get that Neale and (maybe Cripps) would be short odds but the others are more 'yesterday's heroes'. 

So, how do the odds work? 

[Demonland 72,200]

Just now, Lucifer's Hero said:

Top 5:  Neale, Cripps, Fyfe, Martin, Dangerfield.  I get that Neale and (maybe Cripps) would be short odds but the others are more 'yesterday's heroes'. 

So, how do the odds work? 

I believe it's mostly based on where the money is. Having said that this is basically the opening market so I don't know how that works. I'm sure there are more proficient punters on here that can answer correctly.

[sue 9,106]

I agree the umpires are not in a great position to vote, but I'm not sure the coaches rankings are without issues. For example, I expect they sometimes use the vote to make a point within the club, reward someone for doing their job etc, all of which may not be relevant to them being best and fairest.

[Deeoldfart 8,033]

11 hours ago, A F said:

Clarry finishes 9th in the league and doesn't finish top 3 in the BnF. What a joke.

You mean the umps got one right for a change.?  ?

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,757]

8 hours ago, deebug said:

We were the only club with two players in the top ten, proud of our boys?

Not quite. Geelong also had two (Dangerfield and Guthrie). But if we're looking for bragging rights, the combined total of our two was 34 compared with their 29.

Footnote: I think Geelong supporters might have us covered for bragging rights given they're playing off for the premiership this weekend.

[nosoupforme 3,085]

Oliver and Petrac working in tandem two powerhouses and at their prime. Umpires will take notice  from now on, no doubt.   

Edited October 18, 2020 by nosoupforme

[Lucifers Hero 39,816]

1 minute ago, sue said:

I agree the umpires are not in a great position to vote, but I'm not sure the coaches rankings are without issues. For example, I expect they sometimes use the vote to make a point within the club, reward someone for doing their job etc, all of which may not be relevant to them being best and fairest.

I kept a close eye on the coaches votes and found high consistency in how their 5 and 4 votes were allocated, medium consistency in their 3 vote and a bit of variability with their 2 and 1 votes. 

As both coaches are voting it is unlikely the overall result would be affected by any 'messaging'.

The top 4 players in the Coaches votes were the same players as the top 4 at the Brownlow with spots 2 to 4 being close in both talllies so some minor repositioning.

[deebug 1,754]

2 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Not quite. Geelong also had two (Dangerfield and Guthrie). But if we're looking for bragging rights, the combined total of our two was 34 compared with their 29.

Footnote: I think Geelong supporters might have us covered for bragging rights given they're playing off for the premiership this weekend.

My bad, just was so happy for our guys?

[Demonland 72,200]

Still can't understand the decision not to allow Fages to present the medal to Lachie.

[tiers 2,840]

The umpires are always in the best position to vote. They are close to the action and can tell who is working hard successfully and who is not. They can see up close who is winning the ball and using it well in a way that is superior to all coaches and commentators.

They have never picked a dud and always pick one of the top fancies. Lachie Neale proves the point as does previous winners Pyke, Dangerfield, Martin, Ablett, Priddis etc.

[Dee Zephyr 19,267]

Gutsy mark by Sam Walsh but MOTY??? Not sure about that, saw at least half a dozen better marks during the highlights for each round’s votes.

[Return to Glory 8,441]

My biggest take away from the Brownlow - Dane Swan is still a prize [censored] 

[Lucifers Hero 39,816]

18 minutes ago, Demonland said:

Still can't understand the decision not to allow Fages to present the medal to Lachie.

Apparently Simon Black was in the same room so he would also have been a very fitting presenter.  One of the Lions all time greats.

[picket fence 17,169]

12 hours ago, A F said:

Clarry finishes 9th in the league and doesn't finish top 3 in the BnF. What a joke.

Absolute Joke!!! at least the umpires appreciate and can see the difference between a footballer than an overated Rugby player!

[Demonland 72,200]

5 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Apparently Simon Black was in the same room so he would also have been a very fitting presenter.  One of the Lions all time greats.

Exactly. I can understand the situation in Victoria is different and if the player had been here then I can accept that. I also understand that Brisbane are out and are presumably not hubbing anymore (were they even in a hub this year?) and therefore out of the AFL's strict rules. However if that is the case why were they all sitting on top of each other? If it's about optics then why were they all not socially distanced throughout the night?

A few weeks ago at the All Australian presentation Fages presented Neale with the Coaches Award and the Players Association MVP.

[Deemania since 56 6,639]

Congratulations Tracca on a great season - closing strongly with more to come, no doubt. 

[sue 9,106]

1 hour ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

I kept a close eye on the coaches votes and found high consistency in how their 5 and 4 votes were allocated, medium consistency in their 3 vote and a bit of variability with their 2 and 1 votes. 

As both coaches are voting it is unlikely the overall result would be affected by any 'messaging'.

The top 4 players in the Coaches votes were the same players as the top 4 at the Brownlow with spots 2 to 4 being close in both talllies so some minor repositioning.

You are right - the lower ranked votes are more likely to be affected By the things I mentioned 

[roy11 3,853]

I echo the view of a lot of posts in this thread but will summarize my thoughts

1. Happy M Brown got in on the votes, was playing some good footy at the end of the year. Hope we can find a place for him.

2. Had money on Neale/Boak/Petracca trifecta - Winnings reduced 50% cos Jack Steele snuck it at the end to tie with Trac. So he is now my most hated player in the AFL.

3. I did not like Danger's suit.

4. Trac had polled 5 votes in 85 AFL games until 2020 where he polled 20 votes in 17 games. The finger has well and truly been pulled out and i look forward to seeing what he brings to the table next year. 

5.Black should have given the award

6. Mark of the Year and Goal of the year were wrong - but who cares - Pickett will win them both next year.

7. Happy for Clay to poll well, hopefully all can be soothed going forward

8. Langdon unlucky not to poll, but he's only ever received 2x 1 votes in his career. (68 Games Freo, 17 games Melbourne). Maybe needs more end product for the umps to get attention. Had a look at some other wingers and Isaac Smith polled 25 votes in 210 games, Brad Hill 15 votes in 168. 

9. The players in the Melbourne studio sitting there with the masks, raw end of the deal aha. 

[Adam The God 30,260]

2 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

2016

Dustin Martin 25

Trent Cotchin 9

*Alex Rance 7

Ben Griffiths 4

Brandon Ellis 3

Jack Riewoldt 2

Shaun Grigg, Anthony Miles 1

2015

Dustin Martin 21

Trent Cotchin 17

Anthony Miles 9

*Brett Deledio, Alex Rance 8

Brandon Ellis 7

Shane Edwards 6

Taylor Hunt, *Ty Vickery 4

*Ivan Maric, Jack Riewoldt 3

Bachar Houli, Kamdyn McIntosh 2

2014

Trent Cotchin 18

Dustin Martin 13

*Brett Deledio 12

Brandon Ellis 9

Jack Riewoldt 7

Anthony Miles 4

Alex Rance 3

*Reece Conca 2

*Ty Vickery 1

2013

Trent Cotchin 19

Dustin Martin 16

Brett Deledio 10

Daniel Jackson 9

Brandon Ellis, Shaun Grigg, Bachar Houli 5

Jack Riewoldt 4

Aaron Edwards, Alex Rance, Matt White 2

Tyrone Vickery, Nick Vlastuin 1

 

They made finals 2013-15 but not 2016. But there's an obvious consistency: Martin and Cotchin.

To be fair, two of their other A-graders during that time were Riewoldt and Rance, and forwards/defenders don't poll well.

Thanks mate.

This is why I really want Ben Brown. 

Martin / Petracca - Cotchin / Oliver - Riewoldt / Brown - Rance / May

That elite spine. Weideman might make it, but I can't see him kicking 50+ next year. Others might, I don't.

Edited October 19, 2020 by A F

[Lord Nev 13,512]

17 minutes ago, A F said:

Thanks mate.

This is why I really want Ben Brown. 

Martin / Petracca - Cotchin / Oliver - Riewoldt / Brown - Rance / May

That elite spine. Weideman might make it, but I can't see him kicking 50+ next year. Others might, I don't.

I know there's more to it than just goals, but this year:

Riewoldt - 1.6 goals per game

Weideman - 1.5 goals per gam

I reckon it's more that we need our Lynch. Weid is trying to do it all himself atm.

[mauriesy 7,297]

2 hours ago, picket fence said:

Absolute Joke!!! at least the umpires appreciate and can see the difference between a footballer than an overated Rugby player!

Hard to equate the Brownlow with the club Best and Fairest.

Players very rarely receive Brownlow votes when their side loses (I think Max Gawn receiving 2 was one of the few occasions this year). There were 8 games Melbourne lost where significant Brownlow votes weren't given to Melbourne players, but votes would have still been given to players in the Best and Fairest.

Maybe Viney works harder regardless of whether Melbourne wins or loses, hence gets more BaF votes?

[titan_uranus 25,020]

3 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Top 5:  Neale, Cripps, Fyfe, Martin, Dangerfield.  I get that Neale and (maybe Cripps) would be short odds but the others are more 'yesterday's heroes'. 

So, how do the odds work? 

Fyfe, Martin and Dangerfield are three of the last four winners prior this year (the other was Mitchell), and they're all traditionally high-polling players. They seem to attract votes even when they're not playing amazing football.

It's an easy place to put early money if you're having a speculative bet this far out from Round 1 2021, I think.

I wonder what Neale's odds were on the day after last year's Brownlow - he was equal third last year so maybe some thought he was a chance of being there abouts.

[mauriesy 7,297]

35 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Riewoldt - 1.6 goals per game

Weideman - 1.5 goals per gam

I reckon it's more that we need our Lynch. Weid is trying to do it all himself atm.

Jack Riewoldt is on the way out. His modus operandi now is to fly spectacularly through the air and then flop around on the ground looking for a free kick, which he gets occasionally and hence scores 1.6 goals a game. ?

[Swooper1987 3,322]

2 minutes ago, mauriesy said:

Hard to equate the Brownlow with the club Best and Fairest.

Players very rarely receive Brownlow votes when their side loses (I think Max Gawn receiving 2 was one of the few occasions this year). There were 8 games Melbourne lost where significant Brownlow votes weren't given to Melbourne players, but votes would have still been given to players in the Best and Fairest.

Maybe Viney works harder regardless of whether Melbourne wins or loses, hence gets more BaF votes?

Max polled in 6 games, 3 times he scored 2 votes in losses - Geelong, Richmond and the Swans.  He polled in three wins - 2 votes v Carlton and Gold Coast and 3 v Hawthorn.  Says a bit about Max that he still plays well when some of his team mates don't. Viney was the other one to pick up votes in multiple losses - WC and Fremantle.