Are We The Mentally Weakest Side Ever?

[Dr. Gonzo 24,208]

53 minutes ago, old dee said:

What we are seeing IMO is more a case of a lack quality that appears as poor play in a lot of games. Endeavour  and effort can carry You  a fair way you but When you run into better skill And or you get tired we fail.  We do not have a player list to get us higher than the mid level of the ladder. How many very Good and Good players do we actually have ? I cannot see more than 10 then we drop away rapidly. Add a FD that is gloriously average and the result is an average team who if things go our way means we can sneak into the finals but little else will happen. We still have a long way to go.

I couldn't disagree more. It's not a lack of quality that lost it against the Swans. It's a lack of onfield leadership, workrate and pride in their performance.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,208]

3 hours ago, Supreme_Demon said:

Yes, the Demons as an entire club has been mentally weak since 1965.

We lost that killer instinct when we let Ron Barassi go to Carlton. The club had grown arrogant from it's success and had too many people on board level that were not willing to make radical changes. The whole of the 1970s was a waste for the Melbourne Demons.

We tried to get back our killer edge in 1981 with the return of the prodigal son Rob Barassi as coach, but didn't have the talent. We basically had to build a list almost from scratch and we had to contend with nationalisation of the competition in the late 1980s.

 

Overall, there is a fundamental issue with the Melbourne Football Club's culture and this needs to change.

We had an opportunity to do that in 2007 but we foolishly ignored the opportunity to take on Kevin Sheedy as our coach and chose a "nice guy" in Dean Bailey (may he rest in peace). I am still bewildered as to why that huge mistake was made but maybe it had to do the the club being in a difficult financial position at the time and not being able to afford Kevin Sheedy? Either way, it was a sliding doors moment for our club and one that still irks me to this day. If anyone could shed light on this utter failure by the club that happened in 2007 with overlooking Kevin Sheedy as the Demons coach it would be greatly appreciated.

 

Anyway, back to mental weakness. This is a big problem for us and this relates to our "soft as butter" culture. Paul Roos never finished the job in rectifying this issue. If you may recall he was only coach of the Demons for a mere 3 seasons compared to almost 9 seasons at the Swans. That was a lot longer to ingrain their "Bloods" culture up in Sydney. So here at Melbourne it was basically a band-aid fix to a bullet wound which really required in-depth surgery to take that bullet out and patch up the wound.

Now we seem to have the same old problems of inconsistency in performance and lack of mental toughness coming back again. Take the disastrous loss to Collingwood in 2017 when a finals spot was on the line in the last game of the home and away season. Another example was the totally embarrassing thrashing by the hands of West Coast in the preliminary final over in Perth. A crucial finals game that should of been thoroughly reviewed but instead was totally ignored and denied. Why did Simon Goodwin sweep this game under the carpet?! As for 2019 the entire season was an utter disaster and a waste as well as one of the most disappointing in recent memory.

As for 2020 we needed to play far better than we did against Sydney. We have a chance to redeem ourselves against Fremantle but if we lose this will be another season wasted and flushed down the toilet. In fact we must win all our remaining home and away games to be a chance to make the finals in 2020.

I have faith that President Glen Bartlett and the Melbourne Football Club board wants to change the club's culture. The Coronavirus (COVID-19) has thrown a spanner in our works to sort out a proper combined administrative offices and football headquarters with a training oval.

 

Nevertheless, if Simon Goodwin is not up to it ...and we keep having these constant disappointments...we need to go all out to try and get Alistair Clarkson as our next coach on a long-term deal. Preferably a 5 year contract. Alistair Clarkson's time is almost up at Hawthorn (with the likelihood of him surviving a rebuild very low) and if we can sell it to him to become the Demon's next coach and help us break our Premiership drought then he may relish this new challenge and fresh start.

Either way, the toxic culture at our club needs to cease and this must be driven by the Melbourne Football Club board downwards.  The mental weakness must end or our club will die.

 

Two reasons we didn't get Sheedy

1) he was insulted that we wanted to put him through the interview process and make him come up with a PowerPoint etc

2) (my opinion) Sheedy would not tank for priority picks which was a clear strategy of the club for 2008/09

[old dee 23,787]

37 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I couldn't disagree more. It's not a lack of quality that lost it against the Swans. It's a lack of onfield leadership, workrate and pride in their performance.

I guess we are not going to agree on this one Dr. Just don't think we are skilled enough. You cannot win games against the better side with poor kicking skills. 

[Bitter but optimistic 22,238]

7 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

Just putting it here on record that you're accusing me of being a stalker while sending me threats through my work email. Have previously tried to DM you to call a truce but you ignored it and continued with the personal attacks, which have clearly now crossed a line.

In your words, I'm "calling you out" on this behaviour as it's appalling.

 

WTF is this ? 

Mate You,ve got to be be kidding me!!

[Fork 'em 6,983]

6 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

Have tried to DM you multiple times and have commented to let you know about that too. That's the best way to clear the air IMO.

Clearly now this has crossed a line that is not ok. I'll say again, I'm open to messaging to call a truce. I don't want the drama, and I certainly do not want this crossing over into my personal life again like it now has.

 

Lets not kid ourselves.
You thrive on drama.
Imagined or otherwise.

Edited September 5, 2020 by Fork 'em

[Bitter but optimistic 22,238]

3 minutes ago, Fork 'em said:

Lets not kid ourselves.
You thrive on drama.
Imagined or otherwise.

Certainly seems that way fork !! 

I just don't get what he's on about.

[Sir Why You Little 37,033]

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Two reasons we didn't get Sheedy

1) he was insulted that we wanted to put him through the interview process and make him come up with a PowerPoint etc

2) (my opinion) Sheedy would not tank for priority picks which was a clear strategy of the club for 2008/09

And we Failed so dismally at it, with such arrogance...

This is why we need someone with a wealth of hard experience, not the exuberance of a First Timer

[Biffen 12,943]

11 minutes ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

Certainly seems that way fork !! 

I just don't get what he's on about.

We are supposed to be discussing mental weakness.

Your knowledge and input on the subject might be of rare ,intrinsic and experiential value.

[John Crow Batty 8,863]

22 minutes ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

Certainly seems that way fork !! 

I just don't get what he's on about.

There could be a horses head involved. 

[Moonshadow 17,676]

7 hours ago, picket fence said:

Agree 100% Viney's first instinct is to run headlong into tackle after tackle after...... Never gives it of to first option just wants to play Rugby time and time again. Just dumb footy. I would not bat an eyelid if the club traded him at years end. 

Except that he's a FA, no trade required, so we'd get little in compo for him. He's certainly not a A grader, but he's worth more than that IMO 

[Rogue 585]

11 hours ago, Mel Bourne said:

Don’t ask Melbourne supporters this question. You’ll never get an unbiased answer. Ask all the other club’s supporters. 
 

They’ll all say “Yes”. 

I suppose the same supporters would talk about the 'shinboner spirit' too. Lazy stereotypes are hard to kill and if you've got a little too excited about where we're at, it's easy to blame losses on 'mental weakness'. How are North going?

The reality is that we're performing on par for a mid-ladder team around the fringes of the top eight. We've won 5/7 games vs teams currently below us on the ladder, but lost 5/7 vs teams currently above us. Our record is 0-5 versus the top five, and 7-2 versus the teams from 6th down.

I reckon the results are a reasonable reflection of where our side is at, and not a surprise that a team of our calibre would drop a game to a bottom six side. It's not 'mental weakness', it's that we're just not that good, and teams that aren't that good drop games they 'should' win.

1 Port - loss 51 points
2 Brisbane - loss 4 points
3 Richmond - loss 27 points
4 Geelong - loss 3 points
5 WCE - loss 27 points
6 Collingwood - won by 56 points
7 Saints - win by 3 points
8 GWS -
***
10 WB - loss by 28 points
11 Essendon -
12 Carlton - won 1 point
13 Suns - won 17 points
14 Freo -
15 Swans - loss by 21 points
16 Hawks - won 43 points
17 North - won by 57 points
18 Adelaide - won 51 points

Edited September 5, 2020 by Rogue

[FritschyBusiness 1,478]

3 minutes ago, Rogue said:

I suppose the same supporters would talk about the 'shinboner spirit' too. Lazy stereotypes are hard to kill and if you've got a little too excited about where we're at, it's easy to blame losses on 'mental weakness'. How are North going?

The reality is that we're performing on par for a mid-ladder team around the fringes of the top eight. We've won 5/7 games vs teams currently below us on the ladder, but lost 5/7 vs teams currently above us. Our record is 0-5 versus the top five, and 7-2 versus the teams from 6th down.

I reckon that's a reasonable reflection of where our side is at, and not a surprise that a team of our calibre would drop a game to a bottom six side.

1 Port - loss 51 points
2 Brisbane - loss 4 points
3 Richmond - loss 27 points
4 Geelong - loss 3 points
5 WCE - loss 27 points
6 Collingwood - won by 56 points
7 Saints - win by 3 points
8 GWS -
***
10 WB - loss by 28 points
11 Essendon -
12 Carlton - won 1 point
13 Suns - won 17 points
14 Freo -
15 Swans - loss by 21 points
16 Hawks - won 43 points
17 North - won by 57 points
18 Adelaide - won 51 points

bang on

[Mel Bourne 4,515]

2 hours ago, Rogue said:

I suppose the same supporters would talk about the 'shinboner spirit' too. Lazy stereotypes are hard to kill and if you've got a little too excited about where we're at, it's easy to blame losses on 'mental weakness'. How are North going?

The reality is that we're performing on par for a mid-ladder team around the fringes of the top eight. We've won 5/7 games vs teams currently below us on the ladder, but lost 5/7 vs teams currently above us. Our record is 0-5 versus the top five, and 7-2 versus the teams from 6th down.

I reckon the results are a reasonable reflection of where our side is at, and not a surprise that a team of our calibre would drop a game to a bottom six side. It's not 'mental weakness', it's that we're just not that good, and teams that aren't that good drop games they 'should' win.

1 Port - loss 51 points
2 Brisbane - loss 4 points
3 Richmond - loss 27 points
4 Geelong - loss 3 points
5 WCE - loss 27 points
6 Collingwood - won by 56 points
7 Saints - win by 3 points
8 GWS -
***
10 WB - loss by 28 points
11 Essendon -
12 Carlton - won 1 point
13 Suns - won 17 points
14 Freo -
15 Swans - loss by 21 points
16 Hawks - won 43 points
17 North - won by 57 points
18 Adelaide - won 51 points

Very well collated and presented argument. However you’re not factoring in the other 55 years. Our exceptional premiership drought is an albatross around the neck of everyone who dons the red and blue. It surely contributes considerably and negatively to the club’s psychology. How could it not? 

[leave it to deever 17,511]

We certainly dont seem to learn very quickly or grow from our previous errors. With the exception of a few and we all know who they are, most of these blokes turn up for a paycheque and thats it. Dont worry about us supporters who cobble enough for a membership. Oh well I guess thats on us.

[leave it to deever 17,511]

12 hours ago, Rogue said:

I suppose the same supporters would talk about the 'shinboner spirit' too. Lazy stereotypes are hard to kill and if you've got a little too excited about where we're at, it's easy to blame losses on 'mental weakness'. How are North going?

The reality is that we're performing on par for a mid-ladder team around the fringes of the top eight. We've won 5/7 games vs teams currently below us on the ladder, but lost 5/7 vs teams currently above us. Our record is 0-5 versus the top five, and 7-2 versus the teams from 6th down.

I reckon the results are a reasonable reflection of where our side is at, and not a surprise that a team of our calibre would drop a game to a bottom six side. It's not 'mental weakness', it's that we're just not that good, and teams that aren't that good drop games they 'should' win.

1 Port - loss 51 points
2 Brisbane - loss 4 points
3 Richmond - loss 27 points
4 Geelong - loss 3 points
5 WCE - loss 27 points
6 Collingwood - won by 56 points
7 Saints - win by 3 points
8 GWS -
***
10 WB - loss by 28 points
11 Essendon -
12 Carlton - won 1 point
13 Suns - won 17 points
14 Freo -
15 Swans - loss by 21 points
16 Hawks - won 43 points
17 North - won by 57 points
18 Adelaide - won 51 points

I get where you are coming from. Most supporters overate the players level of skill. Its part of the fun and passion of footy.

The troubling aspect of the swannies game was the so much of the time there was footage of players not chasing. Also too many tackles were shrugged off. This isnt about level of skill. Anyone can run and tackle.

Did it look like we gave it everything we had so as to secure a spot in the finals of the worlds greatest game?

Did not look like it to me.

[Rogue 585]

GWS says hi.

[The heart beats true 18,123]

12 minutes ago, Rogue said:

GWS says hi.

Agree. Their list and what they’ve achieved is literally one of the things that gives me solace when we are terrible. 

Its a tough game AFL. Talent and potential only gets you on the park. Hard work and consistency is the key.

[Spit Demon 58]

It's never gonna end... The curse lives on ???

[Pickett2Jackson 3,904]

47 minutes ago, Rogue said:

GWS says hi.

Yeah they are weak as but they've been around less than 10 years, we have been around since the 1800's.

You can excuse them for having no culture.

 

[layzie 33,794]

We're just as bad as those bumblefoots. No use using someone else to make us feel better.

[old dee 23,787]

On 9/5/2020 at 7:53 PM, Dr. Gonzo said:

I couldn't disagree more. It's not a lack of quality that lost it against the Swans. It's a lack of onfield leadership, workrate and pride in their performance.

I guess we are just going to disagree on this one Dr. 

[Pickett2Jackson 3,904]

Just watching the Eagles win with half their team out.  They win every season and rarely miss finals.,  They win flags.

What does that club do so differently to us?  We need to study clubs like that and work out why we continually fail.

[gs77 4,237]

6 minutes ago, Pickett2Jackson said:

Just watching the Eagles win with half their team out.  They win every season and rarely miss finals.,  They win flags.

What does that club do so differently to us?  We need to study clubs like that and work out why we continually fail.

Being from a one-team city in an Aussie Rules-mad state with world class facilities, huge membership numbers, and the commensurate sponsorship dollars that would attract might have something to do with it. We are a homeless amateur rabble compared to the top clubs.

[BDA 22,743]

13 minutes ago, Pickett2Jackson said:

Just watching the Eagles win with half their team out.  They win every season and rarely miss finals.,  They win flags.

What does that club do so differently to us?  We need to study clubs like that and work out why we continually fail.

They have the pick of Western Australia, benefit from home town umpiring, excellent club facilities, winning tradition, very good coach, competent list management, proven player development program, sponsors and money. I might have missed some.

[NeveroddoreveN 1,034]

13 minutes ago, Pickett2Jackson said:

Just watching the Eagles win with half their team out.  They win every season and rarely miss finals.,  They win flags.

What does that club do so differently to us?  We need to study clubs like that and work out why we continually fail.

Watching the last 7 minutes in particular both Nic Nat and Kelly were heroic.  Both these blokes ooze leadership. Makes me bit jealous actually.