POSTGAME: Rd 15 vs Sydney

[SFebes 4,884]

Why....do we rate as the number 1 midfield, have the best ruckman, arguably the best wingman, most improved mid/forward, likewise the full back yet still dish up the same turd burgers each week? Ranked 18th for tackles and 13th for clearances, what was all that talk about brand and being ruthless?  We even do it in our wins! Goodwin has no idea I'm afraid and we are so close to burning talent again. Even if we make finals, we still know what we will dish up next year. We have belted up 5 of the 7 bottom sides, and only just in a couple of those games. We are a directionless/rudderless team, thats coaching.

Edited September 4, 2020 by SFebes

[BillyBoy 71]

1 hour ago, picket fence said:

For a start the coaching panel and about 10 players need to go

I have been following MFC since the early 1960s and have been a long-time paid up Member (in high tier of the membership commitment).

I live in NSW but up until this year I have attended 16 games a year in Melbourne (as per home-and-away Membership).

I don't think I will renew my membership again this time around.

Why?

1. I did not withdraw my membership this year even though I knew there would be no possibility of attending games. I did write to the MFC asking them to reciprocate by negotiating cheap Kayo subscriptions for members, particularly those in NSW, who rarely are able to even watch the games on TV (7 Mate only carries a few games up here). MFC declined that suggestion. So I concluded the loyalty in these difficult times was one-way - me to them.

2. Irrespective of the fact they mistakenly renewed the senior coaches contract for some years it is clear he is consistently out coached by smarter operators. He needs to be replaced. He appears inflexible and is often outwitted by other strategies (the Footscray game was a classic example of that).

3. His game plan, inasmuch as there is one, relies on skill levels that our players do not seem to have. I cannot tell whether that is a basic talent issue (player problem) or a lack of player development issue (coaching problem).

4. They consistently select players that are incapable of the standard. Hiding Oscar in the forward line yesterday was embarrassing.

5. I did manage to see a game in Sydney this year. Melksham was playing poorly and at one stage he came off the field to the interchange and a supporter (there weren't many) shouted something about getting a move on (nothing offensive) and Melksham replied something like "come down here you [censored]" (threatening the spectator) which summarised his disdain for those who support the club through thick and thin. He rarely sets the world on fire with his play, often doesn't contest and is clearly a product of poor decision-making from the coach via his Essendon connection.

6. The fact they select players who cannot compete with the better teams and/or (most importantly) lesser teams that display more earnest indicates a recruitment problem. Despite all the fanfare about Lever, for example, the rate of return to the club from his contract is very low, and I am not including his injury period (which was not his fault) in that assessment. He talks a lot about leadership but is not worth the fee. Steven May is clearly playing well and apart from his initial misadventure (overweight/undertrained etc) has contributed strongly to the club. But he is also expensive. That outlay might have been justified if we were that close to contesting the GF. But we are light-years from that now and we should have used that cash to develop some younger talents. Some of the other recruitment decisions and trading away draft picks are mind-boggling.

7. I can cope the team losing - we have been loyal for decades with that the norm - but when I saw players not even running last night as Sydney players broke tackles with ease - then one has to question why I pay several hundred dollars a year to fund that sort of player commitment. There is a disconnect somewhere and it doesn't seem to be getting any better. The post-match analysis from the journalists often highlight the lack of two-way run from many of our players, who often seem to be coasting. I have seen that a lot.

These are reasons among others why I find it difficult to continue. I thought things were on the improve with Jackson/Roos. But whatever development work they put in seems to have been squandered by a series of poor followup decisions, including the senior coach appointment.

It is very hard psychologically to remain anything other than detached from what is going on with the MFC. And, footy after all is just a game that we seek a bit of fun away from our other, more serious endeavours in life.

Two things the club should do to change this:

1. Get an established senior coach who has demonstrated their skills. If the club asked me to put in an extra hundred bucks or something to help them pay out existing contracts I would do that in a flash.

2. Stop talking about brands and all that hype and admit that the team is nowhere near being a successful finals club with its current list and use that cultural shift to renew the list. St Kilda and Carlton are now ahead of us in prospect and Sydney and Fremantle will next overtake us.

 

 

 

Edited September 4, 2020 by BillyBoy
fixing grammar

[—coach— 3,496]

Have refrained from posting post game so far as I have been incredibly disappointed with what I saw last night.

Rang the membership department today to ask them to downgrade my membership for next year as I’m kinda over paying good money for the team to repeatedly make the same mistakes.

The lady on the phone was lovely and I really feel for her as she is a long time member and hurting just as much as all of us. She explained to me that the phones have been busy today with people wanting to cancel memberships for next year and downgrading. She also confirmed that they keep a record of calls like mine and send the report to Pert each day, which is the main reason I wanted to call. As it’s the only way I have of telling the club that the current habits are unacceptable and inexcusable.

Unless things change dramatically over the coming weeks, there is a really good chance membership numbers for next year will slump back to numbers last seen in the bad old days early last decade.

[Dannyz 2,682]

41 minutes ago, Stevienic23 said:

Any combination of:

1. Walk Goodwin

2. Walk Mahoney

3. Major changes at selection. Ie Viney out, Jones out (for good)

4. No more social media - this isn't directed at our marketing team, they have a harder job than Dan Andrews at the moment but we dont need to see fluff pieces, back from hell, behind the scenes BS! It just creates hope which we know will come crashing down

5. Send the wives and girlfriends back to Melbourne (unfair collateral damage I know but I'm bloody livid) 

6. Recruit players & staff that know what hard work and success looks like (this one is obviously off season). We should be pillaging Hawthorn.

We have a big enough fan base that our club could be anything. We outnumbered Geelong and Hawthorn in those finals in 2018. Those numbers don't convert to memberships because [censored] like this happens far too often. 

In Bartletts own words he said he wanted us to be like the New York Yankees. Well its time for action as the Yankees wouldn't stand for this crap!

Who do the New York Yankees want to be like? No one. They create their own identity. Time we did the same. 

[Red But Mostly Blue 4,547]

10 minutes ago, BillyBoy said:

I have been following MFC since the early 1960s and have been a long-time paid up Member (in high tier of the membership commitment).

I live in NSW but up until this year I have attended 16 games a year in Melbourne (as per home-and-away Membership).

I don't think I will renew my membership again this time around.

Why?

1. I did not withdraw my membership this year even though I knew there would be no possibility of attending games. I did write to the MFC asking them to reciprocate by negotiating cheap Kayo subscriptions for members, particularly those in NSW, who rarely are able to even watch the games on TV (7 Mate only carries a few games up here). MFC declined that suggestion. So I concluded the loyalty in these difficult times was one-way - me to them.

2. Irrespective of the fact they mistakenly renewed the senior coaches contract for some years it is clear he is consistently out coached by smarter operators. He needs to be replaced. He appears inflexible and is often outwitted by other strategies (the Footscray game was a classic example of that).

3. His game plan, inasmuch as there is one, relies on skill levels that our players do not seem to have. I cannot tell whether that is a basic talent issue (player problem) or a lack of player development issue (coaching problem).

4. They consistently select players that are incapable of the standard. Hiding Oscar in the forward line yesterday was embarrassing.

5. I did manage to see a game in Sydney this year. Melksham was playing poorly and at one stage he came off the field to the interchange and a supporter (there weren't many) shouted something about getting a move on (nothing offensive) and Melksham replied something like "come down here you [censored]" (threatening the spectator) which summarised his disdain for those who support the club through thick and thin. He rarely sets the world on fire with his play, often doesn't contest and is clearly a product of poor decision-making from the coach via his Essendon connection.

6. The fact they select players who cannot compete with the better teams and/or (most importantly) lesser teams that display more earnest indicates a recruitment problem. Despite all the fanfare about Lever, for example, the rate of return to the club from his contract is very low, and I am not including his injury period (which was not his fault) in that assessment. He talks a lot about leadership but is not worth the fee. Steven May is clearly playing well and apart from his initial misadventure (overweight/undertrained etc) has contributed strongly to the club. But he is also expensive. That outlay might have been justified if we were that close to contesting the GF. But we are light-years from that now and we should have used that cash to develop some younger talents. Some of the other recruitment decisions and trading away draft picks are mind-boggling.

7. I don't mind the team losing - we have been loyal for decades with that the norm - but when I saw players not even running last night as Sydney players broke tackles with ease - then one have to question why I pay several hundred dollars a year to fund that sort of player commitment. There is a disconnect somewhere and it doesn't seem to be getting any better. The post-match analysis from the journalists often highlight the lack of two-way run from many of our players, who often seem to be coasting. I have seen that a lot.

These are reasons among others why I find it difficult to continue. I thought things were on the improve with Jackson/Roos. But whatever development work they put in seems to have been squandered by a series of poor followup decisions, including the senior coach appointment.

It is very hard psychologically to remain anything other than detached from what is going on with the MFC. And, footy after all is just a game that we seek a bit of fun away from our other, more serious endeavours in life.

Two things the club should do to change this:

1. Get an established senior coach who has demonstrated their skills. If the club asked me to put in an extra hundred bucks or something to help them pay out existing contracts I would do that in a flash.

2. Stop talking about brands and all that hype and admit that the team is nowhere near being a successful finals club with its current list and use that cultural shift to renew the list. St Kilda and Carlton are now ahead of us in prospect and Sydney and Fremantle will next overtake us.

 

 

 

Great post, perfect summary really.

Agree - we have an opportunity to correct things but we have to make some immediate, tough decisions or else we'll continue to be overtaken by other clubs. 

We're wasting the good talent we DO have (and we do have it), and sorely need to recognise that something very ordinary happened to our culture long ago and it has not been restored. The marketing videos don't restore a thing, they just keep putting our deficiencies in the spotlight to be mocked when we don't deliver, which is about as close a thing as we have to a brand right now - i.e. disappointment, false dawns, over-inflated egos. I don't mind ego, I guess, but you need to win things for that sort of crap.

We're a great club, but the glory days fade day by day and we're at risk of squandering talent and having to do yet another rebuild, which will be harder and harder to do as the years go by - who would want to join this basket case when you could go to the other clubs on the rise?

For things to change, we have to change.

[DemonOX 8,779]

We need an established coach full stop.

We eat up and spit out rookie coaches.

Time to spend some quality $$$$$$$ on an established and successful coach such as Lyon, Clarkson maybe even Mark Williams.

IT NEEDS TO CHANGE.

[Deemania since 56 6,607]

15 hours ago, Tired and Emotional Dee said:

How many times in my 49 years have we lost "that game" - i.e. the one against a struggling side, lower on the ladder than us, that would help cement our spot in the finals (or even the Top 4) and actually give us some hope that maybe we're a chance of going all the way?  Will we EVER be able to trust this team? I think not.

Agreed, fully. The opposite scenario would be that if we won those critical games (that could be pencilled in to our tally) we would be facing a finals series with Goodwin as Coach. That would lead us to even more misery I'd think. The man has ruined our footy team that looked to be so bright for the shorter-term future. How do we get Goodwin out? Does not the Board hierarchy see the discontent of paying Members of the MFC and the supporting public? Water off a duck's back; over-committed themselves to a non-evidentiary football guru. The Board needs a kick up the R's, as well. Not one of us is happy or satisfied to tolerate this appalling record of mediocrity wherein a slather of complaints have resided almost continuously with such management across the whole depth of a professional footballing construct. 

 

[GCDee 3,199]

12 hours ago, A F said:

I'm just hoping the ridicule directed towards the club makes the players realise you have to bring 4 quarters of football every week.

Not too much to hope for, hey?

They haven't learnt the lesson after being burnt time and time again. They are either not serious about winning or don't believe in the system.

[DeeZee 7,361]

1 hour ago, SFebes said:

Why....do we rate as the number 1 midfield, have the best ruckman, arguably the best wingman, most improved mid/forward, likewise the full back yet still dish up the same turd burgers each week? Ranked 18th for tackles and 13th for clearances, what was all that talk about brand and being ruthless?  We even do it in our wins! Goodwin has no idea I'm afraid and we are so close to burning talent again. Even if we make finals, we still know what we will dish up next year. We have belted up 5 of the 7 bottom sides, and only just in a couple of those games. We are a directionless/rudderless team, thats coaching.

Exactly 

We are far from that ruthlessness we saw late 2018 and have become almost smug , meek and mild , with no right to be.

[chook fowler 19,444]

Along with GWS we are the flakiest side in the comp and have been for a decade. Also, we have had a terrible history of poor selection. Last night was a prime example. We selected a side slow by foot and brain against a young highly mobile outfit and payed the price. Those that believe it’s on the players and not the coaches have NFI.

[Deemania since 56 6,607]

14 minutes ago, DemonOX said:

We need an established coach full stop.

We eat up and spit out rookie coaches.

Time to spend some quality $$$$$$$ on an established and successful coach such as Lyon, Clarkson maybe even Mark Williams.

IT NEEDS TO CHANGE.

I'd still support Jordan Lewis, if available; Yze may well be another good candidate; Lyon (Ross or Gary) make sense, too.

 

[Sir Why You Little 36,955]

28 minutes ago, RedButMostlyBlue said:

 

We're a great club, but the glory days fade day by day and we're at risk of squandering talent and having to do yet another rebuild, which will be harder and harder to do as the years go by - who would want to join this basket case when you could go to the other clubs on the rise?

For things to change, we have to change.

No, we are not a great Club. That is the root problem, we want to be great, but it’s hard work being a great club

The MFC doesn’t like hard work, and i mean the really hard work. 
 

The DeeBrief on instagram calls it “institutionalised complacency”

They are dead right

The Football Department needs to be stripped down (again)

Get a real Coach who KNOWS what needs to be done. 

[Red But Mostly Blue 4,547]

2 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

No, we are not a great Club. That is the root problem, we want to be great, but it’s hard work being a great club

The MFC doesn’t like hard work, and i mean the really hard work. 
 

The DeeBrief on instagram calls it “institutionalised complacency”

They are dead right

The Football Department needs to be stripped down (again)

Get a real Coach who KNOWS what needs to be done. 

What I mean by great club is the legacy, as in something worth saving. If there wasn't that, I'd say bugger it, sell the bloody thing for parts.

We're worth saving, but as you point out, it'll take actual hard work - which is something we have not proven over any material period of time (unless you count the hard work editing the marketing videos).

Also 'institutionalised complacency' is spot on.

[DeeZee 7,361]

We were a great club in the 50s/60s

Since then been bog ordinary 
We have no right to be treading water 

We should be desperate, ruthless and brutal.

Edited September 4, 2020 by DeeZee

[Sir Why You Little 36,955]

Just now, RedButMostlyBlue said:

What I mean by great club is the legacy, as in something worth saving. If there wasn't that, I'd say bugger it, sell the bloody thing for parts.

We're worth saving, but as you point out, it'll take actual hard work - which is something we have not proven over any material period of time (unless you count the hard work editing the marketing videos).

Also 'institutionalised complacency' is spot on.

I get what you mean mate and we are worth saving, BUT only if the Club is willing to do the REAL Hard Work. 
Burgess needs to ramp it up even further, not just physically but mentally 

Yes “institutionalised Complacency” is the perfect summary of the last 6 decades. 
I wish i had thought of it!!!

[picket fence 17,033]

1 hour ago, BillyBoy said:

I have been following MFC since the early 1960s and have been a long-time paid up Member (in high tier of the membership commitment).

I live in NSW but up until this year I have attended 16 games a year in Melbourne (as per home-and-away Membership).

I don't think I will renew my membership again this time around.

Why?

1. I did not withdraw my membership this year even though I knew there would be no possibility of attending games. I did write to the MFC asking them to reciprocate by negotiating cheap Kayo subscriptions for members, particularly those in NSW, who rarely are able to even watch the games on TV (7 Mate only carries a few games up here). MFC declined that suggestion. So I concluded the loyalty in these difficult times was one-way - me to them.

2. Irrespective of the fact they mistakenly renewed the senior coaches contract for some years it is clear he is consistently out coached by smarter operators. He needs to be replaced. He appears inflexible and is often outwitted by other strategies (the Footscray game was a classic example of that).

3. His game plan, inasmuch as there is one, relies on skill levels that our players do not seem to have. I cannot tell whether that is a basic talent issue (player problem) or a lack of player development issue (coaching problem).

4. They consistently select players that are incapable of the standard. Hiding Oscar in the forward line yesterday was embarrassing.

5. I did manage to see a game in Sydney this year. Melksham was playing poorly and at one stage he came off the field to the interchange and a supporter (there weren't many) shouted something about getting a move on (nothing offensive) and Melksham replied something like "come down here you [censored]" (threatening the spectator) which summarised his disdain for those who support the club through thick and thin. He rarely sets the world on fire with his play, often doesn't contest and is clearly a product of poor decision-making from the coach via his Essendon connection.

6. The fact they select players who cannot compete with the better teams and/or (most importantly) lesser teams that display more earnest indicates a recruitment problem. Despite all the fanfare about Lever, for example, the rate of return to the club from his contract is very low, and I am not including his injury period (which was not his fault) in that assessment. He talks a lot about leadership but is not worth the fee. Steven May is clearly playing well and apart from his initial misadventure (overweight/undertrained etc) has contributed strongly to the club. But he is also expensive. That outlay might have been justified if we were that close to contesting the GF. But we are light-years from that now and we should have used that cash to develop some younger talents. Some of the other recruitment decisions and trading away draft picks are mind-boggling.

7. I can cope the team losing - we have been loyal for decades with that the norm - but when I saw players not even running last night as Sydney players broke tackles with ease - then one has to question why I pay several hundred dollars a year to fund that sort of player commitment. There is a disconnect somewhere and it doesn't seem to be getting any better. The post-match analysis from the journalists often highlight the lack of two-way run from many of our players, who often seem to be coasting. I have seen that a lot.

These are reasons among others why I find it difficult to continue. I thought things were on the improve with Jackson/Roos. But whatever development work they put in seems to have been squandered by a series of poor followup decisions, including the senior coach appointment.

It is very hard psychologically to remain anything other than detached from what is going on with the MFC. And, footy after all is just a game that we seek a bit of fun away from our other, more serious endeavours in life.

Two things the club should do to change this:

1. Get an established senior coach who has demonstrated their skills. If the club asked me to put in an extra hundred bucks or something to help them pay out existing contracts I would do that in a flash.

2. Stop talking about brands and all that hype and admit that the team is nowhere near being a successful finals club with its current list and use that cultural shift to renew the list. St Kilda and Carlton are now ahead of us in prospect and Sydney and Fremantle will next overtake us.

 

 

 

Up there for the Demonland Post of the year Billy Boy! ?

[buck_nekkid 5,845]

So some food for thought:

Our midfield is over-rated.  Why have we been smashed in contests and clearances with what could be the best midfield in the league?  Look at how little movement our guys commit to.  When Langdon ran a channel at a boundary throw in, it was a revelation!  We are slow to move, provide no support for each other and seem to have no system.

We stood around ‘blocking space’ but refused to tackle for most of the match.  Witches hats.

Our entry into 50 was simply deplorable.  We had no idea.

Against the saints, we required the individual brilliance of May and Petracca (and a bit Langdon) to get the team over the line.  May had to cover the whole backline with the dreadful selections and no support, and Petracca had an off game.  Can’t rely on one or two to win it for us, all of the passengers need to be censured.

We gave up easy goals. I mean really easy goals.  The defense was abysmal.  How could we really bring in Smith and keep with OMAC with no tall opponents??  THeir first 3 goals were lollies.

Our goal kicking is sub standard.  Fritsch can mark, but if he cant kick, Gove someone else a go.  Honestly!

WHo else knew what we were in for 30 seconds after the first bounce?

Goodwin says the second half was more the way we wanted it.  No it wasn’t, it was still poor, with all of the same flaws mentioned above.

We have systemic issues with attitude, work rate, skill and gameplan.  This mob would be disgraceful in the finals.  Need drastic changes, and no more excuses from goodwhine

[DemonOX 8,779]

31 minutes ago, Deemania since 56 said:

I'd still support Jordan Lewis, if available; Yze may well be another good candidate; Lyon (Ross or Gary) make sense, too.

 

Ross and you could look at Jordan or Yze as support to the head coach imo.

To me it just obvious a rookie coach is out of his depth and not suited at our club.

[Engorged Onion 10,215]

I'm taking the cynical view, that it's all scripted for a

bumper, edge of your seats, fingernail chewing extravaganzaaaaaaaaaaaar final round against Essendon.

[Mickey 4,647]

6 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

I'm taking the cynical view, that it's all scripted for a

bumper, edge of your seats, fingernail chewing extravaganzaaaaaaaaaaaar final round against Essendon.

Which we lose after Essendon jump us and kick 7 in the first 10 minutes 

[BScotti 178]

59 minutes ago, Deemania since 56 said:

I'd still support Jordan Lewis, if available; Yze may well be another good candidate; Lyon (Ross or Gary) make sense, too.

 

Voss for midfield coach, new fwd coach, new backline coach - and bring back Jennings as Strategy

There is no way they will sack Goody.  Would devistate hope and given history would feel like starting again so lets get rid of Richardson who has NEVER been involved with a successful organisation and bring in some senior support to Goody.  Clarko , Lyon, Williams would all be gettable except Clarko who will stay at Hawks to mentor Mitchell to take over.  Lyon makes sense.

Changes to player personnel is another post all together

 

[jnrmac 20,053]

We need 22 players with the commitment of Langdon.

Yes he made some blues at the end but he tries his guts out 

We have some serious downhill skiers.

[3183 Dee 2,845]

24 minutes ago, Mickey said:

Which we lose after Essendon jump us and kick 7 in the first 10 minutes 

But we’ll break even over the remaining 3 quarters, so at least they’ll be done positives to take out of the game.

[layzie 33,740]

3 hours ago, Stevienic23 said:

In Bartletts own words he said he wanted us to be like the New York Yankees. Well its time for action as the Yankees wouldn't stand for this crap!

If we were the New York Yankees and Bartlett was George Steinbrenner, he'd be getting the balance sheet out, finding out what we owe certain people, cutting a check then telling them to get the hell out of here and never come back.

We are not them and never will be it's apples and oranges, our best bet is to find what we want to be and stop with this follow the leader crap. 

Edited September 4, 2020 by layzie

[Forest Demon 4,681]

1 hour ago, jnrmac said:

We need 22 players with the commitment of Langdon.

Yes he made some blues at the end but he tries his guts out 

We have some serious downhill skiers.

I really felt for Langdon yesterday.

He gave it everything he had and you could see he was getting frustrated that nobody was going with him.

And then 2 massive clangers at the end makes him a cheap target for the critics.