Head Knocks Danny Frawley

[Half forward flank 1,022]

Interesting and sad story regarding the coroners report on head knocks Danny received and potential side effects including anger, anxiety and depression. a comment was made by a family member alluding to a possible connection. It is entirely possible it was a contributing factor however depression is a very complicated beast and should not be thought of as having one possible cause. Danny was brave in his fight and courageous in bringing about public awarnesess but it could be said he was poorly advised to be so public about it when he did not have his own situation under control. It sort of gave the impression he was on top of things to many of his collegues and the general public.

Footy knocks very likely played a park and I have to say for the first time in nearly 60 years of playing and watching footy that I cringed when Brown took a courageous mark on the weekend running with the flight of the ball. commentators praised the bravery and inspiration to team mates of the act. But at what cost. One mark v permanent brain damage. i will leave that to the AFL and others to debate and think about. However remember whatever the paid athletes do children and junior coaches will try amd emulate.

[mauriesy 7,352]

The AFL is doing the right thing by trying to limit concussions as much as possible.

Supporters should think about long-term effects to Polly Farmer, Danny Frawley and current cases like Kade Kolodjashnij, Paddy McCartin etc. next time they complain about fines and suspensions for sling tackles, elbows to the head, shirtfronts and rough conduct.

Or even worse, complaining about how the "biff" is going out of the game.

Edited September 1, 2020 by mauriesy

[Lord Nev 13,512]

Pretty sure Gus is dating one of Danny's daughters. This would be a very sobering thing for him to deal with and probably a reminder for us fans how much these young blokes have to deal with sometimes.

 

[Age 485]

Makes one wonder why on the The Bounce they still keep with Frawleys golden fist bit where they seem to celebrate the 'ear massages' each week. Frawley himself used to love it. We cannot keep celebrating people getting belted in the back of the head each week in these marking attempts. Smashing the body is one thing but collecting the head to 'make them earn it' surely has to go as well. 

[daisycutter 29,711]

57 minutes ago, mauriesy said:

The AFL is doing the right thing by trying to limit concussions as much as possible.

Supporters should think about long-term effects to Polly Farmer, Danny Frawley and current cases like Kade Kolodjashnij, Paddy McCartin etc. next time they complain about fines and suspensions for sling tackles, elbows to the head, shirtfronts and rough conduct.

Or even worse, complaining about how the "biff" is going out of the game.

agree maurie, except for first sentence re afl. they are not stepping up, they have many times talked the talk on a lot of these issues then back pedalled when it came to action and enforcement

[deespicable me 1,489]

If umpiring was anywhere near up to scratch, those sort of acts could be taken out of the game, and to be fair they have to a great degree.

The rules though are a mess, the adjudication of those rules is a mess (very hard game to umpire), the MRV is all over the place and yet no-one is allowed to speak up or they get fined and commentators get told off or run off the roster.

Each year we are watching a different game. Not wanting to derail the topic but its hard to trust an organisation to make the correct adjustments to change when to a great degree it doesn't have a clue what its doing.

[Half forward flank 1,022]

11 minutes ago, deespicable me said:

If umpiring was anywhere near up to scratch, those sort of acts could be taken out of the game, and to be fair they have to a great degree.

The rules though are a mess, the adjudication of those rules is a mess (very hard game to umpire), the MRV is all over the place and yet no-one is allowed to speak up or they get fined and commentators get told off or run off the roster.

Each year we are watching a different game. Not wanting to derail the topic but its hard to trust an organisation to make the correct adjustments to change when to a great degree it doesn't have a clue what its doing.

I do not think your are derailing things dee. My view it is forwards we come to watch and score goals, and a few mids. Defenders we admire more than anything else. Forwards should be free to go for the ball in a test of some strength but more so speed and agility. Too much defence training and yes the AFL have made defenders jobs too easy, yes better than the bash merchants days but not enough done yet. Silvani was the example, all he did was scrag and hold and yet some say full back of the century ahead of brilliant and dashing players like Southby, Dench and our own Tassie Johnson.

[mauriesy 7,352]

5 hours ago, daisycutter said:

agree maurie, except for first sentence re afl. they are not stepping up, they have many times talked the talk on a lot of these issues then back pedalled when it came to action and enforcement

The game has still changed to a certain degree. Shirtfronts were once admired (think Whelan on Hird). We all complained bitterly about the "original" Trengove sling tackle, because of the precedent it set.

I think the AFL would like to do more, but every suggestion is greeted with the "we don't want the game to be like basketball" chorus, mainly from certain retired players of the game who are now media commentators.

Sooner or later the AFL will be forced to do more any way, because they risk being faced with a raft of legal cases.

[Half forward flank 1,022]

I have never viewed the game quite the same since the events of the 2000 Grand Final. There remains a massive loophole that players can run amok in the biggest game of the year with a penalty delayed until the following season.

[Moonshadow 17,676]

Article in The Age featuring Sam Blease indicating a concussion class action against the AFL is not far away

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/afl-concussion-class-action-probably-not-too-far-away-20200901-p55rbo.html

[Little Goffy 14,636]

My thoughts go to Daniel Bell, who last I heard was already struggling with aspects of brain damage from his string of playing concussions when he was barely 30.

The long layoffs for Brayshaw might not only have saved him as a player but also saved him a lot of grief as a human being, and the contrast with Bell are a pointer to how far we've come and how important it is to get it right.

[TRIGON 4,790]

On 9/1/2020 at 6:04 PM, Moonshadow said:

Article in The Age featuring Sam Blease indicating a concussion class action against the AFL is not far away

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/afl-concussion-class-action-probably-not-too-far-away-20200901-p55rbo.html

It's just a matter of time until a class action judgement and/or huge insurance payout shakes the AFL to its core.

Edited September 17, 2020 by TRIGON

[SPC 3,551]

I actually cannot recall Sam being knocked out.. not being smart, assuming it was at AFL level. 

[roy11 3,893]

3 minutes ago, SPC said:

I actually cannot recall Sam being knocked out.. not being smart, assuming it was at AFL level. 

Former Melbourne and Geelong speedster Blease, 29, retired in 2015 following a concussion suffered while playing for the Cats’ VFL team.

 

 

Edited September 17, 2020 by roy11

[Cranky Franky 2,089]

On 9/1/2020 at 10:13 AM, mauriesy said:

The AFL is doing the right thing by trying to limit concussions as much as possible.

Supporters should think about long-term effects to Polly Farmer, Danny Frawley and current cases like Kade Kolodjashnij, Paddy McCartin etc. next time they complain about fines and suspensions for sling tackles, elbows to the head, shirtfronts and rough conduct.

Or even worse, complaining about how the "biff" is going out of the game.

Nothing much will change until the AFL deals with the biggest cause of concussion which is CONGESTION.

AFL is often like an ugly rubgy maul with 30 players around the pack.  Whoever gets hold of the ball immediately gets hammered.

Until they find a way to stop the congestion concussions will keep increasing.

 

[drdrake 3,185]

There is a massive difference in how concussion is dealt with today.  Back in Frawley's playing days you get concussed you spend some time to regain your head then went straight back to playing.  Most likely you would sink 10 to 20 pots after the game as well.

Unless you were severely knocked out you wouldn't go off and if you did you most likely came back on.

[Dame Gaga 2,453]

The AFL can't be too serious about stamping out head knocks from fists and knees when they hand out only a fine to so called players like Mumford.

[monoccular 17,572]

On 9/1/2020 at 10:13 AM, mauriesy said:

The AFL is doing the right thing by trying to limit concussions as much as possible.

Supporters should think about long-term effects to Polly Farmer, Danny Frawley and current cases like Kade Kolodjashnij, Paddy McCartin etc. next time they complain about fines and suspensions for sling tackles, elbows to the head, shirtfronts and rough conduct.

Or even worse, complaining about how the "biff" is going out of the game.

Very selectively with respect to the team for which the offender plays, as in all aspects of adjudication at MRP MRO or tribunal.

”Make a statement” with a little known player from a “non elite club” but as finals approach in particular, or for high profile players at “ranked clubs” Christian charity applies. 

[rjay 25,063]

5 hours ago, Cranky Franky said:

Nothing much will change until the AFL deals with the biggest cause of concussion which is CONGESTION.

AFL is often like an ugly rubgy maul with 30 players around the pack.  Whoever gets hold of the ball immediately gets hammered.

Until they find a way to stop the congestion concussions will keep increasing.

 

I'm not sure this is right 'Cranky'...

Now that tackling has been cleaned up you are unlikely to get concussed in congested play.

Concussions are more likely to occur in marking contests and accidental contact with players running at speed in more open spaces.

They can't get the momentum in congested play to cause concussions and now sling tackles and head high hits have for the most part been taken out of the game I can't see this adding to the problem.

[Giles 181]

On 9/1/2020 at 5:33 PM, Half forward flank said:

I have never viewed the game quite the same since the events of the 2000 Grand Final. There remains a massive loophole that players can run amok in the biggest game of the year with a penalty delayed until the following season.

Completely agree. Brad Green left the field with a detached retina before the ball was even bounced and Michael Long performed the most cowardly act on a 19yr old. Troy was rushed to hospital. Michael was raced to the AFL hall of fame. Times have indeed changed. Burgoyne did cop a massive $1k fine for his sling tackle on an opponent who never had the ball.

Edited September 17, 2020 by Giles

[Dr. Gonzo 24,273]

On 9/1/2020 at 6:04 PM, Moonshadow said:

Article in The Age featuring Sam Blease indicating a concussion class action against the AFL is not far away

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/afl-concussion-class-action-probably-not-too-far-away-20200901-p55rbo.html

Wouldn't they have to prove negligence to succeed in a class action? The circumstances in the AFL are completely different to those in the NFL who for years ignored and actively tried to cover up medical research which indicated a link between playing football and CTE or the symptoms associated with it, most notably severe migraines, memory loss and other cognitive issues as well as mental health issues which in some cases led to suicide most notably from Junior Seau. In recent years the NFL have made rule changes to limit the incidence of head knocks but there was a period of about a decade where they ignored it which is where the negligence lies.

The AFL has not ignored it as far as I'm aware and has been making changes to "protect the head" for 15 or so years at least.

The issue is no-one knows exactly what types of hits are the issue. It's not just strikes to the head or incidents leading to someone being concussed or knocked out. It could be the cumulative effect of hits to the body causing a whiplash effect leading to the brain impacting the skull. There are concerns that repeatedly heading the ball in soccer, particularly for juniors, could be an issue. No-one knows and it can only be picked up post mortem. The NFL have limited training sessions where they are allowed to have full contact, that could be something we see in future AFL/AFLPA CBA's (if it's not in there already).

[Buzzy 992]

On 9/1/2020 at 5:10 PM, mauriesy said:

The game has still changed to a certain degree. Shirtfronts were once admired (think Whelan on Hird). We all complained bitterly about the "original" Trengove sling tackle, because of the precedent it set.

I think the AFL would like to do more, but every suggestion is greeted with the "we don't want the game to be like basketball" chorus, mainly from certain retired players of the game who are now media commentators.

Sooner or later the AFL will be forced to do more any way, because they risk being faced with a raft of legal cases.

Simple, get the players to sign a waiver if they want to play.  You want to play, you understand there is some level of risk in a contact sport.  I get the legal cases if they relate to being sent back on the field as per what used to happen a lot, but outside of that there shouldn't be grounds to sue at all.  

Edited September 17, 2020 by Buzzy

[mauriesy 7,352]

10 hours ago, Buzzy said:

Simple, get the players to sign a waiver if they want to play. 

Good luck with that. And the AFL and clubs still have a duty of care to their employees.

[Uncle Fester 2,848]

I was hit by a car cycling 3 years ago. Lots of broken bits that are healed up but I was out for at least 90 minutes. I’m not the old me. Very grumpy over nothing. Sad for no reason. Have some really dark thoughts at times. And I was never that. I was happy go lucky and not think too much about anything. Shaun Smith’s interview was like hearing myself. It’s hard but I don’t know what can be done. Maybe just be aware that these things change a person, and don’t be too hard on their strangness

[drdrake 3,185]

Before someone puts out that everyone should wear helmets, lets look at the NFL, they have massive helmets and this is a big issue.  My experience especially with kids wearing helmets they lead with their head and don't learn to protect themselves. Like the NFL if they weren't wearing helmets they would learn to block and tackle not head first like they do.  It is part of their sport but the helmet is needed but you need to learn how to protect the head both yours and when your opponents.

The biggest issue in AFL for concussion now is sling tackles, these are plain dangerous not only for concussion but the risk of spinal damage.  Grounds are a lot hard these days no real cushion at all once your arms are pinned you are at the mercy of the tackler.