Robert Muir

[Engorged Onion 10,215]

Wasn’t sure where to put this mods. Here is an uncomfortable article dealing with the impact of racism in the VFL, with a very brief portion from a very humanistic John Northey.

Losing makes me sad, but not as a sad as how we treat those ‘different’ from us.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-23/persecution-of-robert-muir-story-football-doesnt-want-to-hear/12553554
 

Go Dees.

[chook fowler 19,458]

A powerful and uncomfortable read. It shows the importance of the Indigenous round that allow stories like this to be told. I hope theAFL and the Saints reach out to him.

[Cranky Franky 2,059]

Interesting article.  He was a very good footballer but geez he had a hair trigger temper & white line fever.  I found the article a bit one sided as everything that happens is always someone else's fault.

He clearly had a tough life but it would have been nice if he had admitted to some mistakes he made but clearly he didn't get the help & support he needed at the time.

Anyhow hope he gets the $ for his operation & gets more recognition for his talents & career.

 

 

[Gouga 569]

7 minutes ago, Cranky Franky said:

Interesting article.  He was a very good footballer but geez he had a hair trigger temper & white line fever.  I found the article a bit one sided as everything that happens is always someone else's fault.

He clearly had a tough life but it would have been nice if he had admitted to some mistakes he made but clearly he didn't get the help & support he needed at the time.

Anyhow hope he gets the $ for his operation & gets more recognition for his talents & career.

 

 

Wow. Even today people don't get it.

Your comment embodies the very issue he faced. 

[Redleg 40,914]

This is so sad and unfair. We live in a world that can be wonderful and rotten, to the people who inhabit it. I just have no more words at the moment. 

Edited August 23, 2020 by Redleg

[jules7 792]

OMG I have tears after reading this story, so incredibly sad. 

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,824]

And people wounder why our indigenous brethren might seem hyper sensitive to the odd sly monkey emoji posted on social media.

On a minor tangent, good on the North Melbourne Footy club for calling out the social media giants for their pathetic and week response to the issue in it's modern manifestation in the article below, as have the MFC and others:

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-2020-aaron-hall-partner-sophia-absalom-slam-disgusting-instagram-racist/news-story/6e4903f0b64ebee434a80ba776c3ca9e

If this kind of rubbish doesn't go against 'Comunity Guidelines' then what kind of messed up world are you living in?

Edited August 23, 2020 by Rodney (Balls) Grinter

[binman 42,938]

Coincedentaly I just read the article (not realising there was this thread).

Heartbreaking. So much trauma.

I started going to the footy regularly (ie most weeks), usually by myself, as a 11 year old in 1978 and fans yelling racial abuse was so common as not to be even noticed.

The footy show episode says everything you need to know about racism in this country. And how far we have to go to even get close to meaningful reconciliation.

Assuming of course we actually want to get there. Which I am far from convinced about.

No doubt many would say oh that was long ago.

Well one of those aresehokes who thought such a 'skit' was funny is the president of Collingwood (in a lineage that includes that pig mcallister) who still thinks racial jokes are hilarious.

And the other shamefully still has a very public voice. And was just sued by Nicky winmar for defamation after claiming he was lying about his famous protest (one i didn't know Robbie muir had made a decade before)

I feel ashamed for using the mad dog epithet many times over years when talking about Robert Muir.

 

[nosoupforme 3,085]

Talk about white line fever. On the other side of the line is the crowd the one's that carried on and abused the life out of Muir. He retaliated.  Abused by some of the opposition in his playing days. It is amazing with the mental  illness he was diagnosed with that he is still alive. One tough hombre.

I know what it's like to be abused and be vilified .....   That's all l will say about that.

As for Robert Muir he wanted to play the game he loved however the crowds and some of the  the opposition players saw it different and Muir stood up to them.    

[Sir Why You Little 37,035]

Wow what a harrowing story

I saw many of Muir’s games in the 70’s (Moorabbin was easy to get to from home) he was a sensational player and was obviously abused on the field. He reacted. 
 

I hope St. Kilda wake up. Their treatment of him over the years has only made it worse. Don’t get me started on The Filth and Vic Park

[rjay 24,921]

Like' @binman' above, I had just read the article before catching this post.

It's a very sad story indeed.

The reaction from the VFL and local football bodies at the time was telling.

They were not cast in a great light.

Sports administrators often follow rather than lead the way.

I expect to be reading about how the AFL turned a blind eye to the behaviour of certain club Presidents and the poor behaviour shown to Adam Goodes among others sometime down the track.

We've certainly got a long way to go despite the current rhetoric.

[Half forward flank 1,022]

6 hours ago, Engorged Onion said:

Wasn’t sure where to put this mods. Here is an uncomfortable article dealing with the impact of racism in the VFL, with a very brief portion from a very humanistic John Northey.

Losing makes me sad, but not as a sad as how we treat those ‘different’ from us.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-23/persecution-of-robert-muir-story-football-doesnt-want-to-hear/12553554
 

Go Dees.

Agree on this one EO.  Every Club likely has a reason to help Robbie out in some small way. Would love us to reach out to him.

[robbiefrom13 887]

excellent response from St Kilda - well done.  Admiration.

[Lucifers Hero 39,779]

st-kilda-apologises-to-former-player-robert-muir

Kudos for the apology.  But do they have to wait until a harrowing story is in the media.

It behoves all clubs to look back at those that have worn their jumper and reach out before the media spotlight past wrongs.  Those wrongs weren't seen as wrongs at the time; sadly it is how our society was.  Nor can those wrongs be undone.  But the player can be embraced for what they contributed to the club.

Edited August 23, 2020 by Lucifer's Hero

[bjDee 1,249]

Good discussion - thanks EO for raising it.

I read the article this morning and couldn’t put it down until the end.  Like others here, I have a different view now vs what I had about him back when he was playing.

Totally innocent question, triggered by LH’s comment:  who do you think in our club’s past would have reason or need for the club to reach out and right some past mistakes?

On a non-racial basis, I think Junior McDonald might deserve some arms around him.

Are there others, particularly indigenous, who come to mind?

[deebug 1,754]

Both the AFL and Saints should be giving both respect and help for Robert.

His lost so much from such a hated past, this needs to stop!

 

[Sir Why You Little 37,035]

Muir would go off like a Nuclear Bomb on the ground. So i can only imagine what the comments to him were like. 
 

Only 68 games that in itself is a tragedy 

[Return to Glory 8,441]

I think most have made the comments I would have liked to have made. Suffice to say, incredibly sad. An indictment on the period he played in and our tendency to pay lip service to the plight of too many of our indigenous players post-footy career.

As a sIight departure, I will say that the Australian media tends to be terrified of long form journalism. This ABC article is an example of the impact it can have when done well. 

 

[Engorged Onion 10,215]

2 hours ago, bjDee said:

Good discussion - thanks EO for raising it.

I read the article this morning and couldn’t put it down until the end.  Like others here, I have a different view now vs what I had about him back when he was playing.

Totally innocent question, triggered by LH’s comment:  who do you think in our club’s past would have reason or need for the club to reach out and right some past mistakes?

On a non-racial basis, I think Junior McDonald might deserve some arms around him.

Are there others, particularly indigenous, who come to mind?

It's interesting @bjDee - I'm 40 - so don't recall Muir playing - but do remember commentators reference 'mad dog muir'. It makes sense why someone subjected to socially sanctioned, and systemic racism would at times react SO SO strongly (the notion of a mad dog),and the fact of not a single person had an a) understanding of your emotional experience, and b) having your back/support.

My head goes to Sean Charles's experience. I must have been 12/13 perhaps a bit younger and remember the language, when he (im sure people can correct me) turned up later to pre season training, or perhaps broke his leg and didnt hang around the club. The langauge in the media (perhaps from MFC) was that he went 'walk about' - which of course is rather derogatory, dismissive and a lack of cultural respect.

So for mine, he would be perhaps an indigenous person the football club have failed...from the outside looking back 25 years ago.

Edited August 23, 2020 by Engorged Onion

[Adam The God 30,248]

This is a devastating, challenging and extraordinary piece of journalism. I cried most of the way through it. It's been shared quite a bit through Facebook too.

It shows that the AFL's corporate platitudes are just that.

[Cranky Franky 2,059]

2 hours ago, Engorged Onion said:

It's interesting @bjDee - I'm 40 - so don't recall Muir playing - but do remember commentators reference 'mad dog muir'. It makes sense why someone subjected to socially sanctioned, and systemic racism would at times react SO SO strongly (the notion of a mad dog),and the fact of not a single person had an a) understanding of your emotional experience, and b) having your back/support.

My head goes to Sean Charles's experience. I must have been 12/13 perhaps a bit younger and remember the language, when he (im sure people can correct me) turned up later to pre season training, or perhaps broke his leg and didnt hang around the club. The langauge in the media (perhaps from MFC) was that he went 'walk about' - which of course is rather derogatory, dismissive and a lack of cultural respect.

So for mine, he would be perhaps an indigenous person the football club have failed...from the outside looking back 25 years ago.

The Muir story has no comparisons with what happened to Sean Charles.  After the first few years Sean started getting a lot of injuries.  He also stated he was struggling for motivation & wanted to spend more time with his family & was eventually delisted.

He made comebacks with Carlton & St Kilda but more injuries & lack of motivation meant both were very short lived. 

 

2 hours ago, Engorged Onion said:

 

 

[layzie 33,796]

A very difficult but necessary read. Thank you Engorged Onion for bringing it to attention. I'll be reading a lot more of Russell Jackson's stuff after this.

Absolutely tragic, I missed his era but saw plenty of footage and always got the impression the 'Mad Dog' name was a badge of honour for him. Hardly.

I also vaguely remember the Footy Show spot and I knew there was something slap stick about it but still had lasting memories of Muir's 'outburst'. Turns out that show did him no favours. 

These are the stories I would like to hear more of, forget what the latest WAG is getting up to on their Hub trip. No-one should ever have to deal with what he went through. And I hope he eventually does come through with the book idea, might actually be the perfect thing. 

Edited August 23, 2020 by layzie

[Adam The God 30,248]

7 hours ago, binman said:

Coincedentaly I just read the article (not realising there was this thread).

Heartbreaking. So much trauma.

I started going to the footy regularly (ie most weeks), usually by myself, as a 11 year old in 1978 and fans yelling racial abuse was so common as not to be even noticed.

The footy show episode says everything you need to know about racism in this country. And how far we have to go to even get close to meaningful reconciliation.

Assuming of course we actually want to get there. Which I am far from convinced about.

No doubt many would say oh that was long ago.

Well one of those aresehokes who thought such a 'skit' was funny is the president of Collingwood (in a lineage that includes that pig mcallister) who still thinks racial jokes are hilarious.

And the other shamefully still has a very public voice. And was just sued by Nicky winmar for defamation after claiming he was lying about his famous protest (one i didn't know Robbie muir had made a decade before)

I feel ashamed for using the mad dog epithet many times over years when talking about Robert Muir.

 

Well said, mate. 

As for the bolded bit, this is why a story like this, covered the way it has been, is so important.

It makes some of us in more privileged positions reflect on the damage this sort of structural racism can have on people. 

Edited August 23, 2020 by A F

[Adam The God 30,248]

6 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Wow what a harrowing story

I saw many of Muir’s games in the 70’s (Moorabbin was easy to get to from home) he was a sensational player and was obviously abused on the field. He reacted. 
 

I hope St. Kilda wake up. Their treatment of him over the years has only made it worse. Don’t get me started on The Filth and Vic Park

I agree, but this was also clearly a societal and competition-wide thing. 

5 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

st-kilda-apologises-to-former-player-robert-muir

Kudos for the apology.  But do they have to wait until a harrowing story is in the media.

It behoves all clubs to look back at those that have worn their jumper and reach out before the media spotlight past wrongs.  Those wrongs weren't seen as wrongs at the time; sadly it is how our society was.  Nor can those wrongs be undone.  But the player can be embraced for what they contributed to the club.

It's very hard not to be cynical isn't it? It feels a very corporate, brand-saving sort of move to me. But at least they've done it and shows why it's important this story was written.

I hope Robert gets some solace from it and I hope it causes those to reflect in football circles and the wider community. 

37 minutes ago, layzie said:

A very difficult but necessary read. Thank you Engorged Onion for bringing it to attention. I'll be reading a lot more of Russell Jackson's stuff after this.

Absolutely tragic, I missed his era but saw plenty of footage and always got the impression the 'Mad Dog' name was a badge of honour for him. Hardly.

I also vaguely remember the Footy Show spot and I knew there was something slap stick about it but still had lasting memories of Muir's 'outburst'. Turns out that show did him no favours. 

These are the stories I would like to hear more of, forget what the latest WAG is getting up to on their Hub trip. No-one should ever have to deal with what he went through. And I hope he eventually does come through with the book idea, might actually be the perfect thing. 

I got the sense this article is the most likely to create change. Given it's not in a tabloid, I'm sure there would have been an element of consultation in the editorial, something you couldn't necessarily control in book form or in the Murdoch and Costello press.

Edited August 23, 2020 by A F

[Happy Jack 197]

I remember the game where Robert had 19 possessions in a quarter and virtually won the game off his own boot. Thought at the time he was the most dynamic player I had ever seen. Also saw the despicable coverage in Adelaide when he jumped the fence to deck the cretin who had been abusing him and throwing cans at him. No mention of this on the news coverage at the time. Mate of mine was there and was livid at the news services for not telling the real story. 
I had personal experience of the sort of abuse aboriginal kids suffered at the hands of spectators and players. My brother and I had an aboriginal foster brother in our teens. He was a good enough footballer to play for a state high school rep team. Baz and I played basketball with him as well and often had to step in to defend him against some truly obscene abuse by people’s W.E. thought should have known better. It was an eye opening for a teenager into the true nature of our society. Still makes me smoking angry 40 years later.