30 minutes ago, Rossmillan said:

On Viney,

You just can’t replace heart and soul players.  I don’t think anyone  thinks for a second he isn’t busting his guts every time he runs out.

It’s very frustrating watching him get caught holding the ball after trying to break tackles.  On reflection I wonder if he is going through a transition and trying to get the balance right.  After the “red mist” bang it on the boot was the in vogue game style, I think Viney is looking to not do that and is finding his feet with the don’t waste the ball game plan.

Clarry seems to be using his feet more to explode out of contests to use the ball better, I think we need to give Viney the chance to find the balance of when to bang it forward and when to hold the ball for better options.  

Id like to see the structure allow someone to be moving to offer Viney some handball options when he’s likely to be tackled.

Still a very valuable player in my opinion, we shouldn’t be letting him go anywhere.

They've clearly been trying to find the balance with Jack for a long time.

It took Clarry last year to change his game from predominantly handball to something resembling a balance between handball and kick.

This year, at 23 years old, Oliver's continued to develop his game.

Jack is 26 and has been making the same mistakes and playing the exact same way for 131 games. He's had more than enough time to change his game and hasn't IMV.

1 hour ago, A F said:

My sister* said she just read on one of the Facebook* pages that he's committed to Geelong. Anyone heard that?

* not reliable sources...

Is that the same fb page that said he's signed? Not reliable IMO

12 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

Is that the same fb page that said he's signed? Not reliable IMO

No idea. I tend to steer clear of the MFC Facebook pages.

I’m sorry, but I have no problem with losing Viney, provided we are bringing in an A grade Star in return. How that happens is up to recruiters, but it would not sit well with me if we used compo on a compromised draft selection. We have plenty of deficiencies that need addressing. 

1 hour ago, Half forward flank said:

Comprimised draft but if Geelong could get him and still have those 3 picks they could be in good future shape. Kinda think they are planning on not using, 11, 15 and 16.

So we match if none of those are on the table.

With that sort of hand, let’s see how serious they are.

2 hours ago, binman said:

If i recall correctly you said, in response to my concerns that his close relationships with players could potentially cloud Goody's judgment, that you didn't think that is likely.

Sorry binman, I don't remember the specific post.  If you could quote it I'd be happy to respond.

57 minutes ago, A F said:

They've clearly been trying to find the balance with Jack for a long time.

It took Clarry last year to change his game from predominantly handball to something resembling a balance between handball and kick.

This year, at 23 years old, Oliver's continued to develop his game.

Jack is 26 and has been making the same mistakes and playing the exact same way for 131 games. He's had more than enough time to change his game and hasn't IMV.

100 [censored] % @A F

I get the romanticism, but... just because you love some one, doesn't mean it's workable. 

And i don't think Jack himself thinks this, but the historical names, are not bigger than the club in of itself.

 

Edited September 22, 20204 yr by Engorged Onion

1 hour ago, A F said:

They've clearly been trying to find the balance with Jack for a long time.

It took Clarry last year to change his game from predominantly handball to something resembling a balance between handball and kick.

This year, at 23 years old, Oliver's continued to develop his game.

Jack is 26 and has been making the same mistakes and playing the exact same way for 131 games. He's had more than enough time to change his game and hasn't IMV.

That is a fair point.  

Hypothetically, if he was traded, is the value he would attract going to make us better? 

Personally I don’t think so.  Would I rather Jack or a second rounder in a compromised draft, I’m taking And backing in Jack every day of the week.

I don’t think Jack is the problem.

 

5 hours ago, Rossmillan said:

That is a fair point.  

Hypothetically, if he was traded, is the value he would attract going to make us better? 

Personally I don’t think so.  Would I rather Jack or a second rounder in a compromised draft, I’m taking And backing in Jack every day of the week.

I don’t think Jack is the problem.

I don't think we should predicate the idea of value on what we would receive in compensation for Jack. I think we should be looking at what removing his presence from our team brings to the midfield balance (cleanness from stoppage, ball use, predictability to team mates etc).

So I'd argue it could be a case of removing the ball and chain from the ankle of our midfield and enabling it to move with more freedom and agility.

It sounds like Jack has re-signed anyway, so it may well be a moot point.

9 hours ago, A F said:

I don't think we should predicate the idea of value on what we would receive in compensation for Jack. I think we should be looking at what removing his presence from our team brings to the midfield balance (cleanness from stoppage, ball use, predictability to team mates etc).

So I'd argue it could be a case of removing the ball and chain from the ankle of our midfield and enabling it to move with more freedom and agility.

It sounds like Jack has re-signed anyway, so it may well be a moot point.

Let me first say I don't want him to leave but where is the proof he has signed?

If he had re signed surely the club would be crowing about it.

1 minute ago, old dee said:

Let me first say I don't want him to leave but where is the proof he has signed?

If he had re signed surely the club would be crowing about it.

Perhaps they will announce it at the BnF tonight? 

1 minute ago, 3183 Dee said:

Perhaps they will announce it at the BnF tonight? 

Hmm not usually done on B and F night it takes away the limelight of what is a players function.

I will believe it when it happens I still think he is weighing up his options.

48 minutes ago, old dee said:

Hmm not usually done on B and F night it takes away the limelight of what is a players function.

I will believe it when it happens I still think he is weighing up his options.

I agree - just postulating. It will be interesting to hear the speeches tonight.

I wonder what table Jack will be sitting on tonight?

I hope he stays and plays up forward. 
 

I’ve got a gut feel Viney is going to the Cats! 

For a club desperately lacking onfield leadership and elite professional standards, losing Jack is not an option imo

he needs to improve his game no doubt, study some tapes of Libba and how he handballs early and long outside the packs.

9 minutes ago, DubDee said:

For a club desperately lacking onfield leadership and elite professional standards, losing Jack is not an option imo

he needs to improve his game no doubt, study some tapes of Libba and how he handballs early and long outside the packs.

Jack Viney isn’t a leader though! He doesn’t get around teammates, plays selfish football  and because of his name and title we all assume he is a leader. I think he is gone and believe the club has seen that it’s a win/win

34 minutes ago, Dee tention said:

I’ve got a gut feel Viney is going to the Cats! 

Sounds like Crouch is almost signed, sealed and delivered to the Cattery, so I would expect Viney to stay with us if that is  the case.  They can't afford both.

40 minutes ago, Dee tention said:

I’ve got a gut feel Viney is going to the Cats! 

 

26 minutes ago, Kick_It_To_Pickett said:

Jack Viney isn’t a leader though! He doesn’t get around teammates, plays selfish football  and because of his name and title we all assume he is a leader. I think he is gone and believe the club has seen that it’s a win/win

Doubt it very much.

38 minutes ago, Kick_It_To_Pickett said:

Jack Viney isn’t a leader though! He doesn’t get around teammates, plays selfish football  and because of his name and title we all assume he is a leader. I think he is gone and believe the club has seen that it’s a win/win

You know nothing about Jack then.

17 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Sounds like Crouch is almost signed, sealed and delivered to the Cattery, so I would expect Viney to stay with us if that is  the case.  They can't afford both.

There'd be other suitors - Essendon, Carlton, Sydney, Freo, Norf, Hawforn, Saints - they could all use him.

27 minutes ago, Pollyanna said:

There'd be other suitors - Essendon, Carlton, Sydney, Freo, Norf, Hawforn, Saints - they could all use him.

Possibly, but how many are really chasing him, and how many can afford him?

At 26, he is still in the prime of his career and will demand good money.  Blues are about to land Williams and that would soak up plenty of cash.  Sydney and Freo are interstate and, with a new kid and family here, would be highly unlikely to go there.  Norf and Hawks are struggling, so would he want to really go there?

Bombers and Saints would be options, but they have given little indication of going there.

The Cats made sense as the are always in the finals reckoning and it's 40 minutes down the road from Melbourne.  

However, with them seemingly snaring Crouch, I think it makes sense for him to re-sign with us.

It would not be a trade, all we would get is a free agent compo.  maybe end of first round unless he goes on a ridiculous term and coin

2 hours ago, deebug said:

You know nothing about Jack then.

Ok, happy to be enlightened...go ahead 

2 hours ago, Kick_It_To_Pickett said:

Jack Viney isn’t a leader though! He doesn’t get around teammates, plays selfish football  and because of his name and title we all assume he is a leader. I think he is gone and believe the club has seen that it’s a win/win

him and Gawn were apparently the two standouts from a leadership perspective.  He has the respect of his teammates.  Trains and plays like a maniac. you wouldn't see him laughing or groping during a 3/4 time address from the coach. he sets the tone often early in games with toughness and mental application and in the two finals we won, he was terrific. If he was to leave which I don't think he will, it would be because he is disillusioned with the lack of professionalism of his teammates to turn up each session/each game with the right attitude