What has happened to Clayton Oliver?

[Dr.D 1,771]

very reactionary. Oliver is still arguably our best player. it's just because he had a few terrible mistakes by foot. He is still elite and we need his leg speed and power.

 

[Deemania since 56 6,716]

17 hours ago, Billy said:

Well said,

He along with Petracca & Gawn are our only above average players 

it’s the dozen players that can’t even get the ball that I’d be worried about

 

By Jiminy, Petracca is a champion, now. Gawn is as well, but he needs to be assisted in his role to gain any potential longevity.

[Dr.D 1,771]

1 minute ago, Deemania since 56 said:

By Jiminy, Petracca is a champion, now. Gawn is as well, but he needs to be assisted in his role to gain any potential longevity.

petracca is not a champion! Oliver is far ahead of petracca. how many top 3/top 5 finishes in our best and fairest has petracca had? any?  he hasn't strung together an elite season yet like Oliver has. Oliver has been AA for God's sake.

[DeeZone 10,100]

Clary needs to get back to being Clarry maybe start playing with the ball more than the play station, not that he is the only one Gus & Jack need to sort out their issues as well, how is it possible for these three to have gone so far backwards in such a short time!!!

[At the break of Gawn 4,460]

As David King put it, he just gets junk possessions. He's not damaging at all with ball in hand. I'd rank him at the same level as an Adam Treloar at the minute.

[Gawndy the Great 9,011]

18 hours ago, MyFavouriteMartian said:

I said the coaches weren't happy with is disposal ratios, and he wastes a lot of them.  And they want him to use the ball better and use it by foot.  For him to kick more, as we know. That means they want him to get out with the ball and use it by foot. 

Not that he receives the ball on the outside, although that would be good as well.

 He should kick the ball more often,  but not slam it onto boot under pressure as he does.  He needs to escape with ball,  away from the ball up, and use the ball.  He can kick very well when he has time.

I think you are right on the money. First he needs to work on his running patterns to clear the congestion ( like Danger) then work in his kicking to advantage.

He is quick so definitely can reinvent himself.

[Dr.D 1,771]

Bump

Whoever was calling for Oliver to be dropped, please kindly remove yourself from demonland and assess how much you understand football and whether you should really be commenting on melbourne and our players.

The most ridiculous thing I've heard in a long time!!

[Deeko2 844]

22 hours ago, Dr.D said:

Bump

Whoever was calling for Oliver to be dropped, please kindly remove yourself from demonland and assess how much you understand football and whether you should really be commenting on melbourne and our players.

The most ridiculous thing I've heard in a long time!!

Agree Dr.D. 

Some very ordinary commentary here on a sample size of a couple weeks from what has still been a very good season from the kid.  

The kid wasn't at his best but is still in our first three picked along with Gawn and now Trac and again proved it on the weekend.

Not sure what some people expect of our players.  

 

[dazzledavey36 55,318]

On 7/5/2020 at 7:01 PM, MyFavouriteMartian said:

We aren't talking in this thread about other players,  this is solely on Oli.

And he needs to be saved from himself. Before he goes right off the rails.

 

Everyone needs some discipline or self-disciplne,  and Oli  has had last 2 years to sort out his disposals.   Including handball to kick rations,  and his accuracy.

He hasn't.!

Nuff

[DeeZone 10,100]

Clarry and his three amigo's are back...........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JTR 2,855]

23 hours ago, Dr.D said:

Bump

Whoever was calling for Oliver to be dropped, please kindly remove yourself from demonland and assess how much you understand football and whether you should really be commenting on melbourne and our players.

The most ridiculous thing I've heard in a long time!!

So what are the rules here?  Only Oliver?  Are there allowed to be calls for other players to be dropped?

If so, and if those calls are also wrong, will those people be expected to exit demonland? 

Cause...

 

As to what expect from our players, Oliver is one that most would rate as one of our best and rightfully so.

I wouldn't expect then to find myself cringing any time he so much as thinks about kicking it. His kicking is a problem. Certainly not drop from the team worthy, but it's something he must work on.

We can't afford to have multiple players in the middle butchering it by foot, especially when under no pressure at all and he is one of a few

[Little Goffy 14,639]

I've been annoying my wife to hell with complaints about how Gawn is so often winning hitouts but the communication with the rest of the clearance team usnt quite happening. A decisively won hitout will drop just a pace or two too far ahead or a fraction of a second behind and the mid coming through has to reach or twist or stall for just a moment - still getting the ball, still getting the hitout to advantage stat, even still getting the clearance, but it just isn't quite as decisive. 

Seems another one if those things you have to play together to really improve, and I'm hopeful that we'll soon see a bit more of the bonus game changing double-goals that defined 2018 (goal, centre bounce, goal).

It would also give Oliver that little extra moment to steady and deliver a clean kick or handball. Not necessarily brilliant but the proverbial 'high percentage option' that keeps the ball moving effectively. 

That's plenty when your work is done in a pack all day.

[Pickett2Jackson 3,904]

Brilliant player.  Has been from day 1, and will be until the day he retires.

If you want to drop  Oliver,  you have to drop Gawn and Trac too.   After all they're all in the same form.

Edited July 20, 2020 by Pickett2Jackson

[DeeSpencer 26,080]

He was still pretty poor with the ball on the weekend but the second half in particular he started to find his range a bit more. 

In many ways I'd rather he cop the heat now and so there's no doubt in his mind and the clubs mind that he has to get better rather than it drag on and he becomes a poorly skilled player for life. Look at Viney who seems to be getting the message only now.

Of course like all our inside mids they are victims of the lack of smart receivers around them. Langdon's made a difference in that regard but obviously we need more.

Four big improvements I'd like to see from Clarry:
1. Find a reliable left foot get out of jail clearance kick - you can't get clean ball out of every stoppage, there's times you just have to get it forward rather than invite pressure.

2. Lower his ball drop and work on the technical aspects of his kicking so he can reliably hit targets going from right to left. He drops the ball high and has an inside outside leg swing which means his best kicks are from left to right - see the match winner to Petracca v Suns.

3. Long handballs - take the pressure off the need to kick whilst still getting the ball out to space.

4. Drive those legs out the front of the stoppage, make them catch you, if they get you they get you, but drive it forward.

[Master Deebater 492]

11 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

He was still pretty poor with the ball on the weekend but the second half in particular he started to find his range a bit more. 

In many ways I'd rather he cop the heat now and so there's no doubt in his mind and the clubs mind that he has to get better rather than it drag on and he becomes a poorly skilled player for life. Look at Viney who seems to be getting the message only now.

Of course like all our inside mids they are victims of the lack of smart receivers around them. Langdon's made a difference in that regard but obviously we need more.

Four big improvements I'd like to see from Clarry:
1. Find a reliable left foot get out of jail clearance kick - you can't get clean ball out of every stoppage, there's times you just have to get it forward rather than invite pressure.

2. Lower his ball drop and work on the technical aspects of his kicking so he can reliably hit targets going from right to left. He drops the ball high and has an inside outside leg swing which means his best kicks are from left to right - see the match winner to Petracca v Suns.

3. Long handballs - take the pressure off the need to kick whilst still getting the ball out to space.

4. Drive those legs out the front of the stoppage, make them catch you, if they get you they get you, but drive it forward.

Really good analysis of Clarry. 

To get confidence in his left foot he could look for the short option rather than a bomb-it-long (like my style) and create a turn over.

Lowering the ball drop is not easy unless you lower the eyes and look for a shorter option. Difficult under pressure I realise!

 Longer handballs is a great suggestion.

Power out of the congestion, really good advice.

Clearly you've played the game & most probably coached.

 

[nosoupforme 3,085]

17 hours ago, DeeZone said:

Clarry and his three amigo's are back...........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

l believe that the combination of Clarry and Petracca in the middle compliment each other. Clarry has plenty of upside and will improve with every game he plays . His skills are sometimes scratchy however is effective and reads the play well.

In 2018 he was on top of his game he was demanding the ball and chasing hard like Petrac is at the minute.  With Gawn, Viney starting to put it together l am confident the wheel has turned.

 

[picket fence 17,499]

17 hours ago, Pickett2Jackson said:

Brilliant player.  Has been from day 1, and will be until the day he retires.

If you want to drop  Oliver,  you have to drop Gawn and Trac too.   After all they're all in the same form.

Agree because

IM CLARRY CHOO CHOO, STREAMLINED, TOUGH, TACKLING MACHINE, KNOW HOW TO WIN THE BALL AND ON SATURDAY DELIVERED A HIGH 505 METERS GAINED! NUFF SAID!!

Edited July 21, 2020 by picket fence

[Sir Why You Little 37,125]

Some of his tackles last Sunday were glorious 

To see Whorethorn jumpers ragdolled was pure bliss to those who have endured that club since the 1970’s

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,510]

17 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

He was still pretty poor with the ball on the weekend but the second half in particular he started to find his range a bit more. 

In many ways I'd rather he cop the heat now and so there's no doubt in his mind and the clubs mind that he has to get better rather than it drag on and he becomes a poorly skilled player for life. Look at Viney who seems to be getting the message only now.

Of course like all our inside mids they are victims of the lack of smart receivers around them. Langdon's made a difference in that regard but obviously we need more.

Four big improvements I'd like to see from Clarry:
1. Find a reliable left foot get out of jail clearance kick - you can't get clean ball out of every stoppage, there's times you just have to get it forward rather than invite pressure.

2. Lower his ball drop and work on the technical aspects of his kicking so he can reliably hit targets going from right to left. He drops the ball high and has an inside outside leg swing which means his best kicks are from left to right - see the match winner to Petracca v Suns.

3. Long handballs - take the pressure off the need to kick whilst still getting the ball out to space.

4. Drive those legs out the front of the stoppage, make them catch you, if they get you they get you, but drive it forward.

I've never really noticed his ball-drop until recently.  It's not so much 'high' as it is forced down onto his boot from up high.  It's as though he's standing in the middle of a pack and slamming it onto his boot as he doesn't have the time/space to build momentum.  The problem being, he uses this ball-drop even when he's running into space.

 

 

[BW511 2,688]

He’s also more of a ‘place the ball out in front’ style kick than say a Petracca or Fritsch who kick through it, hard and low.

He was certainly a lot better on the weekend, but he could find another gear.

The point about him driving out of stoppages is the key, he can create space for others, by drawing players to him before releasing.

Edited July 21, 2020 by BW511

[deanox 9,989]

Clarry received 5 coaches votes this weekend, 3 from one coach, 2 from the other, making him the 3rd best player on field according to the two coaches. 

He could be *more* damaging but it is clear he is still very damaging. 

Trac standing up helps because he isn't the only one they need to worry about in the centre and he gets an extra milisecond off space.

[binman 43,758]

On 7/6/2020 at 12:39 PM, Dr.D said:

 Oliver is far ahead of petracca.  Oliver has been AA for God's sake.

Bump.

In my opinion Tracc is now a better player than Oliver.

And I rate Oliver super highly so tbat is no small statement.

Had a much underrated season last year. Addressed his inconsistency.

Has addressed his fitness and got his psychology spot on.

In 16 minute quarters is now averaging mid 20s for possessions, despite playing forward 30% of the time. Elite.

And contested possessions are off the chart.

Goal average has gone from 0.9 a game (with 70% of his time forward) to 1.1. In 16 minute quarters this season.

Has always been able to do things only a very small handful of players can do..

Is now doing it week in week out. Martin is absolutely an apt comparison and tracc is plsying much better this year.

Tracc is a lock for AA.

Oliver has leveled off a bit, but still been very good and was terrific last two games. Great to see him kicking more and getting metres gained.

If Oliver keeps that form up he is a good chance of a second AA selection, which would put him in a very small group of players who achieved that before their 25th birthday.

But try a thought experiment. Imagine you are the coach of the Saints. A team on the rise.

And you have the choice of tracc or Oliver to come to your club.

Who do you select?

[rjay 25,087]

8 minutes ago, binman said:

Bump.

Still want to play him (Oliver) as a forward 'bin'???

[Waltham33 475]

Oliver gets marked highly - that comes with being a genuine contributor since day 1.  Trac has the higher upside and isn't it good to see it in action.  Fingers  crossed they peak at the same time

Edited July 21, 2020 by Waltham33

[BW511 2,688]

37 minutes ago, binman said:

Bump.

In my opinion Tracc is now a better player than Oliver.

And I rate Oliver super highly so tbat is no small statement.

Had a much underrated season last year. Addressed his inconsistency.

Has addressed his fitness and got his psychology spot on.

In 16 minute quarters is now averaging mid 20s for possessions, despite playing forward 30% of the time. Elite.

And contested possessions are off the chart.

Goal average has gone from 0.9 a game (with 70% of his time forward) to 1.1. In 16 minute quarters this season.

Has always been able to do things only a very small handful of players can do..

Is now doing it week in week out. Martin is absolutely an apt comparison and tracc is plsying much better this year.

Tracc is a lock for AA.

Oliver has leveled off a bit, but still been very good and was terrific last two games. Great to see him kicking more and getting metres gained.

If Oliver keeps that form up he is a good chance of a second AA selection, which would put him in a very small group of players who achieved that before their 25th birthday.

But try a thought experiment. Imagine you are the coach of the Saints. A team on the rise.

And you have the choice of tracc or Oliver to come to your club.

Who do you select?

Oliver is one of my favourites, but Trac can/does win you games off his own boot.

His newfound fitness and shorter quarters have been a match made in heaven