Our Midfield group has the worst disposal in the league.

[titan_uranus 25,221]

36 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

He traps himself on his left side and from there can only see the long options and maybe Hunt - but can't get the ball to Hunt with the man on the mark and defender in the way. McDonald and Langdon may as well not exist.

We have this refusal to go back over the mark and look up and hit targets. Constantly playing on yet rarely ever getting a chance to see the field in front of us.

Everything is so rushed because we are desperate to get the ball forward quickly not trusting our forwards. 

Agree.

We also have forwards who don't engender much trust, partly their fault (no repeat leads, poor leads, dropping marks), but partly our structural fault (not playing a second tall, asking Fritsch to be the second tall, not structuring the side properly).

[John Crow Batty 8,889]

I would say roos’s tenure was underwhelming and his le

4 hours ago, drdrake said:

Blame paul roos, these are the type of players he wanted contested players.

We loaded up on them  the issue we have is we will the footy but turn it over because we have poor disposl skills 

I would say Roos’s tenure was underwhelming in many respects and sick of all the unwarranted platitudes he receives here. He won only 21 out of 66 games. Sure he turned us from a basket case to just mere mediocre but any other coach once Schwab and Neeld were gone would have done the same given the resources given to us by the AFL. His game plan was unimaginative and stifled creative play. Recruiting has been horrendous. He had minimal commitment for the long haul, only the money.  He left us with Goodwin at the helm who appears more and more a horrible dud every game. The way the players gifted him a 111 points loss for a farewell was telling. Hiring Roos set us up for another lost decade.

Edited July 5, 2020 by america de cali

[Go the Biff 3,474]

59 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

He traps himself on his left side and from there can only see the long options and maybe Hunt - but can't get the ball to Hunt with the man on the mark and defender in the way. McDonald and Langdon may as well not exist.

We have this refusal to go back over the mark and look up and hit targets. Constantly playing on yet rarely ever getting a chance to see the field in front of us.

Everything is so rushed because we are desperate to get the ball forward quickly not trusting our forwards. 

 

So much stupid in this. As well as over committing to his left side, Viney has brought the man on the mark into play by not getting back far enough. It reduces the angles & area he has to work with and means any kick over the MotM has to be a lob. One of my pet peeves this. Basic footy, basic error. Trac is one of our worst offenders at this but he has plenty of mates. In this case, 2 or 3 metres back & the kick to McDonald is easy, even for Jack

More stupid. WTF is Hunt doing ? His lateral lead will bring him right in line with the MotM. How the hell is Viney supposed to get the ball to him ? If Hunt had worked a mere 10 metres further towards goal & dragged his defender with him he could have doubled back and led into the space they'd just vacated. This happens so often with our blokes - leading into a spot protected by the MotM - not just up forward either. Hunt is also about to block any space for those forwards on the goal line to lead into.

Before I'm accused of being overly negative, a bit of credit to Langdon. He's pushed up where he can be used and can run on to be a scoring threat but not so far that he's in the way. We are world's best practice at flooding our own forward line so good to see him show some positional awareness.

Max gets a tick as well as it appears he's focussed on blocking their ruckman to keep him out of our F50 and away from the path to McDonald.

I can only assume TMac farted. Inexplicable elsewise as to how he found that much space in a dangerous F50 position. But Viney, by not getting the basics right, has made him inaccessible

There's more (e.g. goal line blokes - WTF are they doing ?) but typing this out is just making me crankier because I see it every bloody week. It's one snapshot but it illustrates so much that we get wrong

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

 

Everything is so rushed because we are desperate to get the ball forward quickly not trusting our forwards. 

 

Im not disagreeing with you @DeeSpencer but i reckon i could also find multiple examples today of non ruahed kicks with the same results.

And it's the same offenders all the time.

We need a drastic change of tactics and one trick ponies who continue to butcher the ball should be dropped no matter how much they get it how much they're paid.

We carry too many contested players who butcher the ball. Enough is enough 

Edited July 5, 2020 by Unleash Hell

[DeeSpencer 26,632]

16 minutes ago, Go the Biff said:

So much stupid in this. As well as over committing to his left side, Viney has brought the man on the mark into play by not getting back far enough. It reduces the angles & area he has to work with and means any kick over the MotM has to be a lob. One of my pet peeves this. Basic footy, basic error. Trac is one of our worst offenders at this but he has plenty of mates. In this case, 2 or 3 metres back & the kick to McDonald is easy, even for Jack

More stupid. WTF is Hunt doing ? His lateral lead will bring him right in line with the MotM. How the hell is Viney supposed to get the ball to him ? If Hunt had worked a mere 10 metres further towards goal & dragged his defender with him he could have doubled back and led into the space they'd just vacated. This happens so often with our blokes - leading into a spot protected by the MotM - not just up forward either. Hunt is also about to block any space for those forwards on the goal line to lead into.

Before I'm accused of being overly negative, a bit of credit to Langdon. He's pushed up where he can be used and can run on to be a scoring threat but not so far that he's in the way. We are world's best practice at flooding our own forward line so good to see him show some positional awareness.

Max gets a tick as well as it appears he's focussed on blocking their ruckman to keep him out of our F50 and away from the path to McDonald.

There's more (e.g. goal line blokes - WTF are they doing ?) but typing this out is just making me crankier because I see it every bloody week. It's one snapshot but it illustrates so much that we get wrong

I think Hunt is at the end of his lead. Had Viney played on right away Hunt was probably open, he's now creating space for the next guy coming across behind him. The deep blokes in the goal line are holding space and pointing to the open men - something smart, as is Max as you said.

Langdon was open all day today. The Brayshaw shank after the long kick out to Max - Langdon is on the members wing in a paddock of space. We finally have a proper outside runner who gets to all the right spots and our players don't even look for him

[58er 6,867]

1 hour ago, america de cali said:

I would say roos’s tenure was underwhelming and his le

I would say Roos’s tenure was underwhelming in many respects and sick of all the unwarranted platitudes he receives here. He won only 21 out of 66 games. Sure he turned us from a basket case to just mere mediocre but any other coach once Schwab and Neeld were gone would have done the same given the resources given to us by the AFL. His game plan was unimaginative and stifled creative play. Recruiting has been horrendous. He had minimal commitment for the long haul, only the money.  He left us with Goodwin at the helm who appears more and more a horrible dud every game. The way the players gifted him a 111 points loss for a farewell was telling. Hiring Roos set us up for another lost decade.

Rubbish 

He was not just for the money and the team played fine on many occasions in 2016 and 2015. He had no choice to develop defenders and competitiveness but what had happened NO FINISHING and PACE have really been recruited to add to the base he laid.

3 years was never going to complete the team and although 2017  and of course 2018 provided a lineal development path game changes and style of recruits have held our progress up to finish the team.

Javk Watts is a finisher as is Hsrvey  Bennell also Kossie but Goody is so one dimensional and confused his lack of clarity simple game plan and devrlopment of our players has stalled any progress.

NOW we are back to about 2015 with some potential on our list to improve no doubt BUT we need a strong Team oriented coach and a tough one to harness our young bulls who think they can play but really not running AFL footy in 2020.

[KingDingAling 3,758]

5 hours ago, america de cali said:

I would say roos’s tenure was underwhelming and his le

I would say Roos’s tenure was underwhelming in many respects and sick of all the unwarranted platitudes he receives here. He won only 21 out of 66 games. Sure he turned us from a basket case to just mere mediocre but any other coach once Schwab and Neeld were gone would have done the same given the resources given to us by the AFL. His game plan was unimaginative and stifled creative play. Recruiting has been horrendous. He had minimal commitment for the long haul, only the money.  He left us with Goodwin at the helm who appears more and more a horrible dud every game. The way the players gifted him a 111 points loss for a farewell was telling. Hiring Roos set us up for another lost decade.

I mostly agree with that, and have for a while. My issue with Roos is that he appointed Goodwin to carry on his legacy, when it wasn't safe to do so.It was a risky decision. Goodwin wasn't only unproven, but he also shown poor judgement in aligning himself with Hird, and subsequently the saga (essendon drug program) that followed. I have always known what Hird was about and I am not even remotely close to AFL circles, so the fact that Roos appointed someone close to that saga is just lazy and short sighted. Roos loves a dollar. I agree that it is increasingly looking as though his appointment was a failure. 

[drdrake 3,203]

9 hours ago, Stein9193 said:

Yes, Yes, and the 4 years of drafting and recruiting decisions has everything to do with Paul Roos and nothing to do with our current staff. Give me a spell.

Really it is 20 years of drafting and trading  on this topic though we drafted a midfield of contested ball players for Paul Roos game plan, it works if you hit targets but our mids just turn the ball over by hand and foot

[Demonland 74,182]

 

[spirit of norm smith 16,674]

9 hours ago, Go the Biff said:

So much stupid in this. As well as over committing to his left side, Viney has brought the man on the mark into play by not getting back far enough. It reduces the angles & area he has to work with and means any kick over the MotM has to be a lob. One of my pet peeves this. Basic footy, basic error. Trac is one of our worst offenders at this but he has plenty of mates. In this case, 2 or 3 metres back & the kick to McDonald is easy, even for Jack

 

 SNAP. BINGO. EUREKA!!! Yes even this is so simple.  We don’t get back or quickly enough to take our mark or free kick. We play dumb and this is one of the 5-6 most basic easy to fix things.  Trac, Viney, Oliver, Harmes. Plenty of examples.  I’d fix it in 3 minutes to the list with a short video.  Surely Goody!!! 

[spirit of norm smith 16,674]

9 minutes ago, Demonland said:

 

Demonland. Can we start a post on this. It’s been obvious for years and years. Not just the past bad 18 months.  It does “kill us” and the players. There is no skills development coach clearly. I just posted about forgetting about trades etc. Fix the skills of the 22 that play right now. Skills and decision making are CRITICAL 

[Earl Hood 6,163]

43 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Demonland. Can we start a post on this. It’s been obvious for years and years. Not just the past bad 18 months.  It does “kill us” and the players. There is no skills development coach clearly. I just posted about forgetting about trades etc. Fix the skills of the 22 that play right now. Skills and decision making are CRITICAL 

It is not easy to improve skills and decision making mid season or maybe at all but I do believe skills and decision making improves automatically when players have more time and space to work in. you may have noticed how much time and space the Cats players had last week as they played keepings off. 

Our game plan doesn’t seek time and space it encourages contests and rapid ball movement, players banging it forward to the next contest or attempting low percentage passes that get intercepted. 

Every loose ball yesterday seemed to go to a Tiger on the outside, where were our players positioned? I need to watch a replay to try and work out what our players are doing off the ball. 

[spirit of norm smith 16,674]

4 minutes ago, Earl Hood said:

It is not easy to improve skills and decision making mid season or maybe at all but I do believe skills and decision making improves automatically when players have more time and space to work in. you may have noticed how much time and space the Cats players had last week as they played keepings off. 

Our game plan doesn’t seek time and space it encourages contests and rapid ball movement, players banging it forward to the next contest or attempting low percentage passes that get intercepted. 

Every loose ball yesterday seemed to go to a Tiger on the outside, where were our players positioned? I need to watch a replay to try and work out what our players are doing off the ball. 

I agree that on TV it’s hard to know where our players went sometimes.  I miss watching the game live at the ground. You get more perspective on why and how

[jnrmac 20,327]

10 hours ago, Unleash Hell said:

Im not disagreeing with you @DeeSpencer but i reckon i could also find multiple examples today of non ruahed kicks with the same results.

And it's the same offenders all the time.

We need a drastic change of tactics and one trick ponies who continue to butcher the ball should be dropped no matter how much they get it how much they're paid.

We carry too many contested players who butcher the ball. Enough is enough 

4th qtr

3 out of our first 4 kicks into our 50m were marked by Richmond players. Kicks by our mids under no pressure.

[jnrmac 20,327]

1 hour ago, spirit of norm smith said:

 SNAP. BINGO. EUREKA!!! Yes even this is so simple.  We don’t get back or quickly enough to take our mark or free kick. We play dumb and this is one of the 5-6 most basic easy to fix things.  Trac, Viney, Oliver, Harmes. Plenty of examples.  I’d fix it in 3 minutes to the list with a short video.  Surely Goody!!! 

This is coaching and its pathetic. The running back from the mark is highly frustrating

Its like having no one on the goal line. Or not manning the mark properly. OR when Tomplinson was kicking for goal last week with 48 secs on the clock - put the ball on the ground and stop the clock.

Or when a Richmond player is on the ground and we slide in to tackle their head - free kick. Or when a player is targeted by opposition no one goes

Basic football that you learn at school. Its so frustrating. We all see it in the stands or on TV but these geniuses struggle.

This is leadership as well. If I was leader I would have team rules that shamed/fined players for breaking them.

We have very few 'professional' footballers.

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

32 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

4th qtr

3 out of our first 4 kicks into our 50m were marked by Richmond players. Kicks by our mids under no pressure.

I'm verry well aware.

If i get some time im going to post pics/vids of how pathetic we are.

That Viney clearance you're mentioned in your point was embarrassing. He burnt T Mac and rainbowed the ball to the opposition.

Ive been patient but enough is enough. They need to drop players who cant execute or follow team orders.

When we moved fast we looked ok. But some players dont get it or cant because they're not good enough.

I'm also pretty sure i didn't need Tim m Garry to tell me what i posted at half time.

Turnovers are killing us and nothing is changing.

But to be clear im not talking about all turnover, they will happen. Im saying punish players who can't hold possession or play the way the team wants.

And im focusing on our high profile midd who are the leading cause 

Edited July 6, 2020 by Unleash Hell

[Jaded No More 68,976]

This play on at all costs fast ball movement game plan, is so poorly executed and does not suit our players.

We are a contested ball machine. We have loads of excellent ball winners and one of, if not the best ruckman in the league.

Instead of winning clearances and using them to our advantage by having a clear system forward of the centre, our players are told to move it on as quickly as possible in this 'chaos ball' method. This method is great for teams with lots of foot speed, good kicking skills and a couple of very good contested marking tall forwards, eg- Richmond or West Coast. This method is NOT successful for teams with poor kicking skills, not great foot speed, and no key forwards eg- Melbourne.

We went and recruited Langdon (poor kicking skills, but tick on the speed and spread) and Tomlinson (poor kicking skills, average speed, but a tick on marking and ability to cover the ground). However these two have not fixed our issues forward of the centre where we still refuse to play a single in-form tall forward. I appreciate that Tmac has been getting more and more involved the last 2 weeks, but he gets double teamed and yesterday his opponent took 8 intercept marks. EIGHT! For someone who used to be a defender himself, that is pretty pathetic handling of an opponent. 

Our problems are so obvious and were so obvious last year, that given we had a full pre-season with minimal injuries, I do not understand why the coaches did not work on tweaking the game plan, as it looks exactly the same as 2019. Even Goodwin said post match that the stats read the same every week, and so does the result. And yet, here we are, 3 wins since our humiliating prelim loss in 2018, and nothing has been done to change the outcome. 

I don't believe that our players are so poorly skilled. I believe that they are confused, lacking a genuine forward option to kick to, and most importantly they are rushed to move the ball at all costs to the determent of their decision making and execution. 

[deebug 1,754]

2 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

 SNAP. BINGO. EUREKA!!! Yes even this is so simple.  We don’t get back or quickly enough to take our mark or free kick. We play dumb and this is one of the 5-6 most basic easy to fix things.  Trac, Viney, Oliver, Harmes. Plenty of examples.  I’d fix it in 3 minutes to the list with a short video.  Surely Goody!!! 

This is what Goodwin should be doing, and not onlythat, what about the other, how many bloody coaches do we have now, should be doing.?

We can see why the hell can't they see it?

[Earl Hood 6,163]

On 7/5/2020 at 5:31 PM, JTR said:

Look at this...

Viney with the ball kicking inside 50.

Left to right he has Hunt running to space, McDonald on his own with no one near him and Langdon on his own with no one near him.

Where does it go?

Long bomb to Fritsch in a 1v3

That not a problem with the forward structure.  It's just taking the wrong option when going inside 50. 

Much as I like Viney, he is one of the worst offenders. 

I looked at this screen shot the other day  and it is damming and showed lack of vision but it just occurred to me is that without crowds surely Viney could hear the calls from the loose players to his right. I assume with full stadiums players can’t hear team mates calls and have to rely on vision only but playing in an empty echo chamber you have to scratch your head why a player wouldn’t pick up such obvious free targets. I believe it comes from our mantra to play on at all times so we tend to kick straight ahead in predictable lines. Any directional switching only occurs in the back half, once we have possession forward of Centre we are so predictable it must remind opposition defenders of their days playing in the under 16’s. 

[La Dee-vina Comedia 17,119]

On 7/5/2020 at 4:29 PM, Unleash Hell said:

Our side has to worst decision makers and ball users in the league.

Coachibg and structure aside, we wont win with this group of butchers.

Who knew? Apparently there is a collective known for a group of butchers. It's a goring of butchers. I'm not sure why, but having read this thread, that name somehow seems appropriate.

[Demon Dynasty 17,149]

On 7/5/2020 at 5:31 PM, JTR said:

Look at this...

Viney with the ball kicking inside 50.

Left to right he has Hunt running to space, McDonald on his own with no one near him and Langdon on his own with no one near him.

Where does it go?

Long bomb to Fritsch in a 1v3

That not a problem with the forward structure.  It's just taking the wrong option when going inside 50. 

Much as I like Viney, he is one of the worst offenders. 

Nice work JTR.  How many times have we seen this nonsense pop up over so many matches and losses now.

Viney, Gus, Chunk and Clarry.  They all do the same thing.  You might be able to coach / train this out of Clarry if you catch him now and put some crazy work into him.  The other 3 are Gawnsky IMO and all need to be either retired (in the case of Chunk) or let go at season's end.

Edited July 7, 2020 by Rusty Nails

[old dee 24,072]

On 7/5/2020 at 8:55 PM, Leoncelli_36 said:

Our midfield looked better once Harmes went in there in the last 1/4. For mine, he is the only classy mid with a big of genuine pace. 

And his disposal is not bad either.

[Redleg 42,087]

8 hours ago, Earl Hood said:

I looked at this screen shot the other day  and it is damming and showed lack of vision but it just occurred to me is that without crowds surely Viney could hear the calls from the loose players to his right. I assume with full stadiums players can’t hear team mates calls and have to rely on vision only but playing in an empty echo chamber you have to scratch your head why a player wouldn’t pick up such obvious free targets. I believe it comes from our mantra to play on at all times so we tend to kick straight ahead in predictable lines. Any directional switching only occurs in the back half, once we have possession forward of Centre we are so predictable it must remind opposition defenders of their days playing in the under 16’s. 

That kick is typical of the dumb decision making of too many of our players.

Viney had the time, as the photo shows, to see the free men and at least try and pass it to them.

He then compounds the mistake with another pathetic kick.

This scenario is repeated often by our players.

 

Edited July 7, 2020 by Redleg

[Half forward flank 1,022]

Oliver, the eighth worst kick in the Comp. That is shameful to both player and coaching group. Either he is not getting the help and direction, home truths, he needs or he is not listening or respecting the coach. 

[Pickett2Jackson 3,904]

We already had the worst disposal in the comp.  Bringing in Ed Langdon has made it even worse.    Freo fans couldn't  have cared less that he was leaving them.

Of course Bennell will help immensely if he ever gets selected.