POSTGAME: Rd 02 vs Carlton

[DeeSpencer 25,383]

12 hours ago, A F said:

Not sure if this has been mentioned but Troy Chaplin, the Defensive coach... just wow. How can players still be leaping for the same ball? Rivers seemed to understand when to stay down and where to guard space, but Joel Smith after how ever many years he's been on the list, still hasn't worked it out. Smith, Chaplin and Goodwin really have to take some responsibility for this decision making. It shouldn't be happening with a player in his 3rd or 4th or whatever it is, season. 

Structurally though, the first half was solid from a defensive POV, but we still fail to do the basics well. Worried what Essendon will do next week even though they're a pretty ordinary team themselves.

What's frustrating is that there are many, many average teams in the competition. If only we got anywhere near our 2018 form, we'd easily be top 4 or 6.

Smith's played 11 AFL games before Saturday, missed the entire 2019 season and has just come off an 8 week break due to a pandemic. Maybe cut him a bit of a break for one really poor decision. He did chop in front of his man and intercept (with a Jetta assist) the crucial game deciding inside 50.

Maybe Smith won't be smart enough, that's pretty much the decision they made with Frosty, but his basketball background does give him an understanding of zone/man defending and it's up to May and Jetta and the coaches to get him right.

At this stage I'm more concerned about the gigantic holes through our midfield and forward line zone, especially when Marvel stadium should be easier to block up than the MCG. Essendon have started games very strongly getting on their bikes and running in a Richmond wave like fashion

[whatwhat say what 22,587]

3 hours ago, Half forward flank said:

My worry with May is he played outstanding footy for GC when he played how he wanted, roaming across the bacline in a sub standard team full of kids. Does he have the disciple and mindset to be a top team first defender. 

i dunno about playing outstanding football

i remember big bags being booted on him on a regular basis

[Half forward flank 1,022]

Just now, whatwhatsaywhat said:

i dunno about playing outstanding football

i remember big bags being booted on him on a regular basis

Then it is worse than I thought.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

23 minutes ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

i dunno about playing outstanding football

i remember big bags being booted on him on a regular basis

While playing for the worst team in the league?  He was always going to get a few bags kicked on him no matter what he did.

[Sir Why You Little 36,918]

3 hours ago, Engorged Onion said:

My take - from a leadership perspective, when errors occur.

If the players are taught to play percentages, ie: play safe... they will never ever ever be comfortable taking risks under pressure during a game.

The negative threads post Carlton have all slammed the inability for this team since 2018 to capitalise on our advantage. Well, if you're teaching your players to play safe, it doesn't translate to a capacity to do that.

Funnily enough, from a spectators perspective, when players take risks and it comes off, it doesnt look like a risk and looks great.

Funnily enough, from a spectators perspective, when players take risks and it doesnt come off, it looks awful.

Petraccas first goal was a risky ($$hit) kick to the hotspot, where due to his amazing core strength was able to hold the mark. That was a risk, it paid off and it looks great.

Carlton's first goal was through Steven May not holding a mark (taking a risk), and it looked [censored] (and ergo, people question leadership credentials).

You can train and train and train for this, but the only real time to train for it (to refine skills, feel more comfortable executing) is on game day.

This is why I rate Goodwin... but this is also why Goodwin may fail.

Agree with the above. But when Players are taking risks, we need other players to spread as back up

Too often we see 2-3 sometimes 4 players going for the same contest, be it in the air or on the ground

I don’t see why this should be happening when a coach has been in charge 3-4 years 

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

15 hours ago, Beetle said:

I apologise to everyone, even though I didn’t post.

I'm sorry you did, 'Btl'.

[Beetle 4,579]

8 minutes ago, MyFavouriteMartian said:

I'm sorry you did, 'Btl'.

Thanks mate.

[Grr-owl 1,208]

On 6/14/2020 at 12:50 PM, Fifty-5 said:

Have you been inside the rooms?

No. I live an awful long way away.... That's an impression formed from the available media. Are you saying things are obviously different in reality? Please (can't believe I'm writing this) explain. Describe. Would love to have a reason to hope...

[old55 23,323]

6 minutes ago, Grr-owl said:

No. I live an awful long way away.... That's an impression formed from the available media. Are you saying things are obviously different in reality? Please (can't believe I'm writing this) explain. Describe. Would love to have a reason to hope...

As has been posted in other threads the players love playing for Goodwin and a number have stated they came to the club because of the impression he made.

But don't conclude this means he's soft. Renowned hard men Brendan McCartney, Jordan Lewis and Bernie Vince all talk him up and they don't need to.  Goodwin has the necessary intensity.  Supporters who complain they don't see it in post match interviews should reflect on the Mark Neeld years.

[binman 42,492]

4 hours ago, Engorged Onion said:

@binman, I agree with the 'notion' of playing percentages, particularly in that part of the ground. It sounds (and correct me if I am wrong) like you are arguing that no matter the circumstances, never back your own ability to do something that isn't part of your fundamental drilled role. Always in every given situation, no matter the context - always do those things.

If I have interpreted that correctly, what I don't agree with, is that it doesn't allow the fact that people make errors, without the intention of making errors.

 

Really appreciate this post EO. Love that rather than an automatic combative response, as sometimes feels the norm here, you are checking if your understanding of what i'm saying is correct. 

As it happens it isn't, though i understand how you could have reached that conclusion as the phrase playing percentages does suggest mot taking risks. I would have been better to say assess the percentages, or even better assess the risk reward ratio. Or simply making good decisions.

I totally agree players have to take risks and perhaps more importantly are encouraged to do so. And that means not piling in when they make inevitable mistakes. We've all sen players paralyzed by fear of making mistakes. Stretch comes to mind. Omac and Weed too for that matter.

In my opinion May actually made two mistakes. His first mistake, in my opinion, was his decision to leave the ground and go for the mark rather than spoil. Why? Because of the risk reward ratio.

What was the potential reward? He marks the ball and goes back behind the mark to kick (or less likely play on). He stops an inside 50. He has time to assess his options with the next kick. But that's it. The game would have stopped and the blues players would have manned up making it difficult (but not impossible) to turn that possession into an attacking threat.

If instead he chose to spoil the reward would be very similar. He stops an inside 50. If the ball goes over the boundary we can set up a stoppage with the games dominant ruck man. If it doesn't go over the line but forward it opens up the opportunity of us initiating an attacking play as everyone is in motion and the game hasn't stopped. And yes there is a risk the ball goes to a blues player still (though not goal side unless he has an air swing).  

And the risk of leaving the ground going for a mark? The easy goal they kicked under no pressure.

The second mistake, which compounded the first, was that he failed to mark the ball or keep it going out the back. Which happens. And i'm not going to bag him for that.

I reckon on the risk reward assessment it was simply the wrong decision. 

You're right Hero Ball is probably a bit over the top. But i do think that decision did not demonstrate great leadership as leaders are judged on their decisions more than if they make a technical error (like dropping mark, or missing a kick). You'd like to think he would not have made that decision in the last quarter when the game was on the line. Why then make it in the second?

But compare that to a couple of his kick outs that he shanked going for dangerous kicks. Or for instance some of his kicks into the corridor he is capable of. If he is confident he can hit those targets than it is usually a risk worth taking, even with the chance of a turnover as the reward can be that it sets up a goal scoring opportunity. And i hope he continues to take those risks. As i do Rivers. Omac, Salem and Jetta (maybe not smith)

 

Edited June 16, 2020 by binman

[sue 9,096]

7 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

It was lairising plain and simple and he should be pulled up for it. We were 7 goals to 0, if it was 7 goals to 5 I doubt May flies for that ball or at least punches it towards the boundary.

I think you should always play as if the scores are close until the game is 99% in the bag.

[dieter 3,325]

The normal Doomer and Gloomers Brigade Of D/Land have come out and banged on and on about Goodwin, the game plan, the selectors, the selections, ANB,, O.Mc, T.Mc, May, Lever, Smith, Brayshaw, on and on it goes, I.E. the usual culprits as seen by the WiseMen and Wisewomen of D/Land.

In the meantime, there is one aspect of round two which many here seem to either overlooked or  disregarded. To my knowledge, four of the games involved teams coming out like the fury of hell and banging on goal  after goal after goal before their opponents woke up. Adelaide got slaughtered , the E Coli Wobblers hung on for a draw, Essendon won by a kick, as did Melbourne. I wonder if - apart from Adelaide - their supporters have banged on and on and on and on about the woeful uselessness of most of their players, a feature we see quite regularly on this site. 

Am I missing something? 

[binman 42,492]

2 minutes ago, dieter said:

Am I missing something? 

Who knows? But if you are look behind the couch.

[old dee 23,699]

7 minutes ago, dieter said:

The normal Doomer and Gloomers Brigade Of D/Land have come out and banged on and on about Goodwin, the game plan, the selectors, the selections, ANB,, O.Mc, T.Mc, May, Lever, Smith, Brayshaw, on and on it goes, I.E. the usual culprits as seen by the WiseMen and Wisewomen of D/Land.

In the meantime, there is one aspect of round two which many here seem to either overlooked or  disregarded. To my knowledge, four of the games involved teams coming out like the fury of hell and banging on goal  after goal after goal before their opponents woke up. Adelaide got slaughtered , the E Coli Wobblers hung on for a draw, Essendon won by a kick, as did Melbourne. I wonder if - apart from Adelaide - their supporters have banged on and on and on and on about the woeful uselessness of most of their players, a feature we see quite regularly on this site. 

Am I missing something? 

The difference is that it is a regular event at the MFC. 

[Little Richard 6,255]

Only one thing is certain... if we beat the Dons by five goals there'll be a tidal wave of comments claiming we've already got the flag in the bag.

[old dee 23,699]

18 minutes ago, Luther said:

Only one thing is certain... if we beat the Dons by five goals there'll be a tidal wave of comments claiming we've already got the flag in the bag.

You mean there is something that is certain about the MFC Luther?

[Mickey 4,639]

33 minutes ago, Luther said:

Only one thing is certain... if we beat the Dons by five goals there'll be a tidal wave of comments claiming we've already got the flag in the bag.

Not if we blow a 12 goal lead, there won't. 

[dieter 3,325]

47 minutes ago, binman said:

Who knows? But if you are look behind the couch.

I shudder to think what I might find there: we have a 19 month old swiss white shepherd puppy!

By the way, I always enjoy your comments. They are positive and constructive.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,129]

1 hour ago, sue said:

I think you should always play as if the scores are close until the game is 99% in the bag.

Exactly sue, as I mentioned earlier in the thread (or another thread?) the focus should always be on winning the next contest. The scoreboard is irrelevant.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,129]

59 minutes ago, dieter said:

The normal Doomer and Gloomers Brigade Of D/Land have come out and banged on and on about Goodwin, the game plan, the selectors, the selections, ANB,, O.Mc, T.Mc, May, Lever, Smith, Brayshaw, on and on it goes, I.E. the usual culprits as seen by the WiseMen and Wisewomen of D/Land.

In the meantime, there is one aspect of round two which many here seem to either overlooked or  disregarded. To my knowledge, four of the games involved teams coming out like the fury of hell and banging on goal  after goal after goal before their opponents woke up. Adelaide got slaughtered , the E Coli Wobblers hung on for a draw, Essendon won by a kick, as did Melbourne. I wonder if - apart from Adelaide - their supporters have banged on and on and on and on about the woeful uselessness of most of their players, a feature we see quite regularly on this site. 

Am I missing something? 

I don't put myself in the "doom brigade" but the game on Saturday was pretty concerning. Will wait and see how the next few weeks play out but I am not confident of beating the Bombers on Sunday, in fact I would bet against it.

The difference between us and other clubs is that MFC regularly have these mental lapses in quarters/games/seasons that mean we rarely take advantage and go for the jugular when the opportunity arises. Every Melbourne supporter would have been thinking the same thing at quarter time; great to be up but I bet we let them back in. Until we develop the killer instinct and prove it over multiple seasons supporters will rightfully be dismayed with those kinds of performances. I've been following the Demons since I was 5 years old in 1987 - I am yet to see us put a complete season together where we grind out the season getting results and providing consistent performances. We have had the odd game where we steamroll teams but for the most part we have never been known to put the foot down - and we certainly haven't maintained that edge over the course of a season.

[old dee 23,699]

23 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I don't put myself in the "doom brigade" but the game on Saturday was pretty concerning. Will wait and see how the next few weeks play out but I am not confident of beating the Bombers on Sunday, in fact I would bet against it.

The difference between us and other clubs is that MFC regularly have these mental lapses in quarters/games/seasons that mean we rarely take advantage and go for the jugular when the opportunity arises. Every Melbourne supporter would have been thinking the same thing at quarter time; great to be up but I bet we let them back in. Until we develop the killer instinct and prove it over multiple seasons supporters will rightfully be dismayed with those kinds of performances. I've been following the Demons since I was 5 years old in 1987 - I am yet to see us put a complete season together where we grind out the season getting results and providing consistent performances. We have had the odd game where we steamroll teams but for the most part we have never been known to put the foot down - and we certainly haven't maintained that edge over the course of a season.

The only game I can Remember is the one against the Swans when Roos coached them. 

[titan_uranus 24,963]

46 minutes ago, old dee said:

The only game I can Remember is the one against the Swans when Roos coached them. 

We beat Carlton by 100 and Adelaide by 90-odd in 2018. Those don't count?

[Demonstone 22,202]

Of course they count, it's just that old dee can't remember them.  ?

[old dee 23,699]

2 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

We beat Carlton by 100 and Adelaide by 90-odd in 2018. Those don't count?

UMM so I really am losing my memory.

where am I again?

Edited June 16, 2020 by old dee

[old dee 23,699]

1 minute ago, demonstone said:

Of course they count, it's just that old dee can't remember them.  ?

Spot on DS, after 2019 I think I have blanked out back beyond October 2019.