Early during the call of the game of the Hawks preseason game, after a laces out pass from Jones (to a leading Freitch I think) Garry Lyon made a statement about what a boon it could be for the MFC to have Jones in the frount half, because he was "pretty much the best kick at the club".

Interested on other's views on a) the Jones statement and b) who would you rate as say our best 5 - 10 kicks in the team at present?

He's one of our better kicks when given time and space, but I wouldn't have him in the top 3. 

For me, it's Salem, Melksham and Fritsch in the top 3, and while very very early days Rivers seems to have a very nice kick and could easily push into that group.

OMac, for all his faults, is also a nice kick. I'd group Jones around the 5-7 range.

4 minutes ago, Mickey said:

Salem, Melksham and Fritsch in the top 3, and while very very early days Rivers seems to have a very nice kick and could easily push into that group.

Agreed, but I regard Rivers as being just that little bit ahead of Melk, albeit so early in his career; I guess it cannot fully be evaluated yet, as there have not been a heap of shots at goal, static or mobile, from Rivers to fully judge that skillset. Bennell is a candidate if he gets over his current difficulties and plays in the forward line.

I was pretty happy when he nailed that goal early in the last qtr vs. Geelong in the 2018 finals. 
He’s done well over his time with those captains goals from around 50.

Melksham is clearly one of the best kicks in the league. 

44 minutes ago, Mickey said:

He's one of our better kicks when given time and space, but I wouldn't have him in the top 3. 

For me, it's Salem, Melksham and Fritsch in the top 3, and while very very early days Rivers seems to have a very nice kick and could easily push into that group.

OMac, for all his faults, is also a nice kick. I'd group Jones around the 5-7 range.

Agree. 

Salem, Fritsch or Milkman in no particular order. 

If Bennell can somehow get back on the park he will be in the conversation too. His kicking is so effortless and it glides through the air. 

When Jones started out he developed a reputation as a bit of a dodgy kick, but it became apparent around 2010, 2011, 2012 that he had been working hard on his kicking and he had become an excellent kick. It was only last year, when our system fell apart he had no one to kick to, that his kicking again seemed ropey.

1 hour ago, Mickey said:

He's one of our better kicks when given time and space, but I wouldn't have him in the top 3. 

For me, it's Salem, Melksham and Fritsch in the top 3, and while very very early days Rivers seems to have a very nice kick and could easily push into that group.

OMac, for all his faults, is also a nice kick. I'd group Jones around the 5-7 range.

The time and space thing is a pretty big key to it I think and it can be a bit like comparing apples with oranges in this respects.  My first reaction to Lyon's call was that it was a bit of a stretch, but as I've pondered it further, I think he is pretty close on the money.  On Nathan Jones my thoughts are:

1. Early in his career he was a bit of a turnover king, but I think that was more about picking the wrong options, letting players close in on him too much and putting himself under the pump.  He prety tidied this up significantly as his career progressed to the point of it becoming a non issue;

2.  Being an in and under, on ball type for most of his career, he has nearly always in tight in positions where little time and space exists.  However through a combination of physical strength and pretty good evasive skills in tight, he is able to work his way out of tight spots and still get a reasonable kick away to position.  I see Trac and to some extent Brayshaw as developing their proficiency in this respects;

3. I've not paid much attention to Jones general feild passing until now, because he's previously been more of that burst kick type, but his skills in this area do seem to be quite good;

4.  He is a pretty decent long kick for goal up forward, on the run, snapping or from a set shot.

 

Along similar lines of being a good kick thing need need to be in the context of where on the ground the kick is being taken and the particular attributes of the player.  Freitch for example was pretty bog ordanary down back by foot and turned the ball over much more frequently than I would have expected for a player of his generally high skill level.  Up forward he has his bearings and sense of where to look for options right and he can be really damaging.  Players like Salem and Melksham typically get the ball in more space than Jones has over the journey.

Asides from the obvious of Salem and Melksham, a few of the others in probably the next tier below that I'd really rate are May, Harmes, Jetta and to some extent Mitch Hannan and possibly Trac.  As others have mentioned, Rivers has the potential to be in the upper eshalon of kicks at the club, but still needs to establish himself at the top level before he can stake a genuine claim in my book. 

Edited March 14, 20205 yr by Rodney (Balls) Grinter

37 minutes ago, Tony Tea said:

Melksham is clearly one of the best kicks in the league. 

Yep, except set shots for goal. Gets the yips from 30 or less. 

1 hour ago, In Harmes Way said:

I was pretty happy when he nailed that goal early in the last qtr vs. Geelong in the 2018 finals. 
He’s done well over his time with those captains goals from around 50.

Indicative for Jones to be seriously considered in the forward line. He has the turn, space seeking and a good boot. Kossie and a few others could learn much playing alongside him as opportunistic smalls when the bigs cannot mark lollipops or long bombs. 

1 hour ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

 

Asides from the obvious of Salem and Melksham, a few of the others in probably the next tier below that I'd really rate are May, Harmes, Jetta and to some extent Mitch Hannan and possibly Trac.  As others have mentioned, Rivers has the potential to be in the upper eshalon of kicks at the club, but still needs to establish himself at the top level before he can stake a genuine claim in my book. 

I had trouble thinking of the 4-10 range, outside of Rivers and OMac. But you've listed a few I'd forgotten.

May is, at times, a very good kick but can miss the easy ones at times. Trac likewise, but generally when it's a long kick or he doesn't have time to think about it (On the run, etc.) he is an excellent kick. When kicking for goal or from a standing start he seems to have too much time and fluffs them.

Jetta is good but safe kick for me. I don't see him trying anything too difficult, which may be because he knows his limitations. But I also think it rules him out of being one of the best.

Harmes is a bit Jonesy-like. Started as a bit of a butcher but has obviously worked hard at it. I'd still prefer the ball in Salem's hands, but it isn't heart in mouth stuff like TMac was coming out of defence.

I'm quite excited about Rivers. I know it's early days and we've hardly seen him play, but his kicking against North, and the fact he didn't go into his shell when he missed a kick, is a great sign, I think. I don't think he'll be the best of the draft haul (Jackson and Kossie look special), but I think he'll develop into a more than reasonable replacement for Hibbo.

I thought the consensus here was that Gary Lyon doesn’t know what he is talking about. 
Jones is a good kick for goal from long range that is a fact but his general field kicking is not. Bombs the ball too much with poor decision making. For his passing game I haven’t noticed much elan about it. 

I don’t know why Melksham has the yips on every set shot as he is the most complete and skilled kicker in our team otherwise.

Salem is a good kick but has bad days.
Jetta is the most thinking kicker in the game. Never wastes a kick if he can help it but lacks range and penetration. Always disposes the ball within his limits.

Fritsch is very good also as well as May and Omac.

Edited March 14, 20205 yr by america de cali

He is a good kick when he lowers his eyes, but is prone to just bombing it inside 50 too often to be considered the equal of Melksham or Fritsch.

I’m a big wrap for Salem and he pretty much never misses a target, but he usually kicks short and safe. I would love to see him take it on a bit more.

May is another who is a beautiful kick, although he turned it over a couple of time against Hawthorn.

Without looking at his stats, he’s a very good kick for goal and underrated for his creativity and vision.

Veru good, underrated kick... not our best though.

Given space and time, he delivers very well to our forwards, and he is cool, usually, under a bit of pressure, but that's all up to the opposition.

On goal: T.Mac, Fritsch, Hannan, Melksham, Weideman (if he can find consistency, I think he'll be known as our best kick on goal, let's just hope he can), Jones
Field: Salem, Fritsch, Spargo, Melksham, Harmes, Lockhart
I'm probably missing a few, but generally speaking. 

Edited March 14, 20205 yr by Ham

often goes unnoticed, but i should note jones is also an excellent kick on his non-preferred side. this obviously has many advantages besides just the kick.

the only knock on his kicking is the excessive big bomb kick, which is really a decision making problem than a kicking problem. nathan buckley had the same problem and to an extent so does dangerfield

Last year Champion Data had a pretty good stat where they had a 'kick rating' based on degree of difficulty of every kick and then how many of each kick a player completed successfully.

Jones was number 1 at the Dees.

 

 

24 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Last year Champion Data had a pretty good stat where they had a 'kick rating' based on degree of difficulty of every kick and then how many of each kick a player completed successfully.

Jones was number 1 at the Dees.

 

 

Yes, Champion Data has credibility.  

Edited March 14, 20205 yr by america de cali

Just now, america de cali said:

Yes, Champion Data has credibility. 

Sure, some stats are a bit shonky (disposal efficiency is a useless stat), but measuring the difficulty of a kick and then how many times a player nails it is a pretty handy stat.

People get too carried away with having a crack at Champion Data anyway, stats don't always tell the whole story, but they just measure the numbers part of it. As they say, the game isn't played on paper.

Melksham for me. While Salem is a good kick they’re not long and penetrating kicks. 

The real edge Jones has in being a good set shot at goal.  Our team is littered with players you wouldn't back from 30m directly in front.  Having a guy who you can back from pretty much anywhere in the 50 is very much needed.  One of the things that really separates the top sides from the rest is that they don't waste the easy chances. 

Hibberd is the one we have probably forgotten. Booming kick with penetration. Hopefully we see a lot more of it this season

Edited March 15, 20205 yr by Demons1858