Farewell Sam Frost

[640MD 2,784]

My take, only my opinion.

he had a better year this year and I think he can get better, not worth high money unless he improves but..

he does not walk on water so is not the saviour of the club. And when he stuffed up it was bad for our defenders and when he grabbed it I had my heart on my mouth.

if he goes good!  If he stays good!

if Melbourne went out of the way to trade him in I think I would be appalled as I think most hawk supporters should be.

time will tell   Good luck frosty which ever way it goes  I will certainly watch what you do ,  at 26. I don’t think things get better again time will tell 

we need better players than we have on 2019 that’s for sure 

go dees 2020

[Stretch Johnson 2,568]

22 hours ago, Stretch Johnson said:

Righto.

Let's revisit this in 12 months.

On this @stevethemanjordan  I want to be wrong and see that Frost plateaus or regresses elsewhere...and that we get value for whatever we get for him, and I do understand that there are salary cap constraints and players that we are trying to bring in.

My concern is that we are trading out a physically gifted defender, albeit a flawed one, but one that we have invested heavily in that is just starting to show some evidence of getting his game together.

My contention is that we are selling too early, but yeah, I want to be wrong.

Edited October 5, 2019 by Stretch Johnson

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

6 minutes ago, Stretch Johnson said:

On this @stevethemanjordan  I want to be wrong and see that Frost plateaus or regresses elsewhere...and that we get value for whatever we get for him, and I do understand that there are salary cap constraints and players that we are trying to bring in.

My concern is that we are trading out a physically gifted defender, albeit a flawed one, but one that we have invested heavily in that is just starting to show some evidence of getting his game together.

My contention is that we are selling too early, buy yeah, I want to be wrong.

I understand all of that, but let's see what we end up with if he does in fact leave.

It's not as if we'll lose him for nothing.

 

[Lord Travis 10,158]

Prefer to keep him but not the end of the world he’s leaving. We need to be firm and get a second round pick in return for him though. All talk in media has us getting a third round pick in return, which will be in the 50s. A pick in the 50s for a proven durable AFL level player with 4-5 more years in him is a big loss IMO.

[Bay Riffin 1,413]

16 hours ago, Pennant St Dee said:

You can guarantee replace Ross Lyon (Clarko) and Zac Dawson (Frosty)

Play tight off the shoulder, spoil in the air at all times in a contest and only ever dispose by handball. Your roll in this defence is to negate not to create

Frost handballs are worse than his kicking. He and Hunt are the worst handballers in the league. Just atrocious. 

[Macca 16,173]

3 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Of course and that's why we finished 17th. Trying to move on one of these players who did all of the above while playing at his ceiling is a good move. Gawn, Oliver etc have shown they are better than what they produced in 2019. For Frost that was his best.

Well Frost did improve this year where previously he struggled to get a game.  And Goodwin kept picking him. 

So he could easily improve again.  Not saying he will but if the coach played to the blokes strengths,  this conversation may not even exist. 

The long ball is being used effectively by Richmond & Collingwood (and West Coast) where as we're playing a slow keepings-off style with unskilled players

And Frost is better suited to hoofing the ball long into our forward line.

Just my view and I'm happy to agree to dusagree Gonzo.  You may well be right but so might I.

It's ok to see things differently.

Edited October 5, 2019 by Macca

[DemonOX 8,529]

I’m just concerned that there seems to be so much faith in Omac from the coaches  and to date I cannot see why that is justified. He seems to be a goody favourite and I have no idea why  

Omac would want to get a lot better to warrant a game rather than get one because someone is injured or to keep developing him. 

We cant afford to play one down when he is in the team  

 

[Demonland 64,705]

 

[Ethan Tremblay 28,356]

Frost has a number in his head, the club thought it was too much - happy for you to explore your options, if it doesn’t work out come and see us and we might formalise our offer. Perhaps what he was asking may have pushed our salary cap too far. Nothing puzzling about it IMO. 

[Macca 16,173]

51 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Frost has a number in his head, the club thought it was too much - happy for you to explore your options, if it doesn’t work out come and see us and we might formalise our offer. Perhaps what he was asking may have pushed our salary cap too far. Nothing puzzling about it IMO. 

Reckon there is more to it than that ET

We follow a largely unsuccessful club,  face it.  You even started a thread seemingly urging others to not renew their memberships.  That's how it read anyway.  I can understand such a stance though,  even though I don't agree. 

So you were disillusioned same as a number of players who previously have ended up wanting out.  Those who stay, keep collecting the coin which is their right (I suppose)

I too am disillusioned but I've held off until now ... Goodwin admitting that he didn't coach the fundamentals and Lever questioning the attitude of the playing group re the pre-season is damning.  My red & blue goggles are well and truly off.

As I said earlier,  Frost wanting out after playing every game this season tells a different story to me.  The ambit claim is just that,  an ambit claim - in my opinion.

Edited October 5, 2019 by Macca

[TGR 1,367]

On 10/3/2019 at 10:30 PM, Dr. Gonzo said:

If Roos couldn't get the best out of Howe that's on Howe, not the club. He's overrated anyway takes some decent intercept marks, does the odd thing that sets up the play but still turns it over more than he should

You make me feel so much better.  Club apologists are worth their weight in gold leaf rust.

[Binmans PA 25,978]

2 hours ago, Lord Travis said:

Prefer to keep him but not the end of the world he’s leaving. We need to be firm and get a second round pick in return for him though. All talk in media has us getting a third round pick in return, which will be in the 50s. A pick in the 50s for a proven durable AFL level player with 4-5 more years in him is a big loss IMO.

We're not offering him a contract mate. We can't then demand a second rounder for him. We'll take a third or a fourth rounder and move on. I'm excited that we can now play a solid system with everyone on board.

If Oscar had come on, Frost would have been traded/delisted a year or two ago. With Petty coming in and the side's success based on an ability to play a cohesive defensive game, Frost was always going to be first one out the door. If we can get something back for our investment/development of him, great, but either way Melbourne's defensive set up is far more important than a rogue agent failing to adhere to the game plan.

One of my mates is on the Hawthorn coaching staff. Clarkson won't let Frost go rogue and he therefore won't last more than one contract with them. Bookmark it. If he does, Hawthorn is in trouble.

Edited October 5, 2019 by A F

[Chook 14,458]

23 minutes ago, A F said:

We're not offering him a contract mate. We can't then demand a second rounder for him. We'll take a third or a fourth rounder and move on. I'm excited that we can now play a solid system with everyone on board.

If Oscar had come on, Frost would have been traded/delisted a year or two ago. With Petty coming in and the side's success based on an ability to play a cohesive defensive game, Frost was always going to be first one out the door. If we can get something back for our investment/development of him, great, but either way Melbourne's defensive set up is far more important than a rogue agent failing to adhere to the game plan.

One of my mates is on the Hawthorn coaching staff. Clarkson won't let Frost go rogue and he therefore won't last more than one contract with them. Bookmark it. If he does, Hawthorn is in trouble.

Wild idea: a good coach would be able to make even rogue players stick to the gameplan.

[Macca 16,173]

24 minutes ago, A F said:

We're not offering him a contract mate. We can't then demand a second rounder for him. We'll take a third or a fourth rounder and move on.

That is how I read it too AF

The reasoning behind it all is debateable though.  It's my opinion that Frost wants out and the club isn't standing in his way.

[Binmans PA 25,978]

57 minutes ago, Chook said:

Wild idea: a good coach would be able to make even rogue players stick to the gameplan.

You'd think so, but without knowing the absolute in and out of it all, it's a bit futile to speculate. 

[DemonOX 8,529]

2 hours ago, Demonland said:

 

Not only has it puzzled two afl greats but it’s got me stuffed. 

Now I can look forward to season 2020 knowing Omac will most likely play in the seniors. Yippie, my 7 yo son has more upper body strength than Omac. Fun times ahead. 

[Demonsone 1,596]

Why would you let your fastest defender/player on your list go in a side aching for speed? Mahoney & Goodwin need to answer this! Watch him excel at the hawks were his forwards will lead to space & will hit targets! Another ex demon who will improve at another club & win a flag! 

[Moonshadow 16,157]

11 minutes ago, Demonsone said:

Why would you let your fastest defender/player on your list go in a side aching for speed? Mahoney & Goodwin need to answer this! Watch him excel at the hawks were his forwards will lead to space & will hit targets! Another ex demon who will improve at another club & win a flag! 

Hyperbole bs

[Demonstone 19,084]

And ... and ... when he wins that flag I won't eat my dinner and I'll hold my breath until everyone's sorry.

[DemonOX 8,529]

46 minutes ago, Demonsone said:

Why would you let your fastest defender/player on your list go in a side aching for speed? Mahoney & Goodwin need to answer this! Watch him excel at the hawks were his forwards will lead to space & will hit targets! Another ex demon who will improve at another club & win a flag! 

Don’t stress de we have Omac. 

Chill out. 

[Cranky Franky 1,483]

I was flabbergasted to read that our BT rates Frost behind Josh Wagner & Oscar McD because no other sane person who watches football would agree with them.

Reminds me that we gave away a Kings ransom to get Lever when we effectively gave away Jeremy Howe who has become one of the top intercept defenders in the competition.

And to those who always pipe up that Howe was going to leave anyway - I have never seen evidence of that & recall that we made no effort to keep him & were very happy to trade him away.  

[picket fence 15,097]

8 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Of course and that's why we finished 17th. Trying to move on one of these players who did all of the above while playing at his ceiling is a good move. Gawn, Oliver etc have shown they are better than what they produced in 2019. For Frost that was his best.

Gawd.. anyone that reckons OSCAR is a better bet than Frost has Rocks in their heads!! I mean really ???

Carysttt

And I'll tell you the Epitome of Delusion

Viney Finished 3rd That right 3rd in our B&F I thought Viney should have been dropped on any number of occasions!

No wonder we are a basket case with Zero premierships to show in a light years of lifetimes!

Sheeeit

Edited October 5, 2019 by picket fence

[Demon Dynasty 15,364]

1 hour ago, picket fence said:

Gawd.. anyone that reckons OSCAR is a better bet than Frost has Rocks in their heads!! I mean really ???

Carysttt

And I'll tell you the Epitome of Delusion

Viney Finished 3rd That right 3rd in our B&F I thought Viney should have been dropped on any number of occasions!

No wonder we are a basket case with Zero premierships to show in a light years of lifetimes!

Sheeeit

Did you enjoy T-Mac's 151 votes PF?

[dieter 3,325]

5 hours ago, Chook said:

Wild idea: a good coach would be able to make even rogue players stick to the gameplan.

Dats why James Sicily keeps bopping people and doing Troppo Sicily things...

[dee-tox 4,793]

Frost played some decent games this year and late last year. In fact, over the full season was probably our best defender with Salem falling in a hole.

I' ll always remember the big barrel he kicked in the first quarter in the semi-final against Hawthorn to help kick our first goal.

Solid shoulder to shoulder player too.

So it seems strange that he is on his way especially with the likes of OMac staying. Surely to improve your list you don't offer contracts to your worst performing players and try and keep your better ones?