17 hours ago, DemonOX said:

PATHETIC 

Coaches didn’t move with the times. 

Players didn’t have the right attitude. 

This just amazes me and they wonder why this season was crap. 

Its ALL STILL BETWEEN THE EARS for our club and has been for the past 15 seasons. 

Until this changes, nothing will change at our club. 

What an indictment on the coaches, players and club. 

PATHETIC. 

I think I might align my membership with the way they perform. If they have a good year and are switched on then I will pay my membership but if they are switched off I won’t. 

If the players can do it then I don’t see why us supporters can’t do it either. What a joke of a club. 

Way ahead of you man.
At the start of the season I saw us running the same garbage game plan with what looked like no effort to fix our F50 entries, dysfunctional backline or poor skills over the pre-season and so didn't bother renewing my gold membership or make the 700k round trip to watch 1 game.
Seen it all before from this club and have been absolutely disgusted it's happened again.
Will withhold my money next season and watch for improvement before forking any of it over.

Edited August 22, 20195 yr by Fork 'em

On 8/21/2019 at 10:00 PM, chookrat said:

2017 is relevant to the players that were on the list at the time but Im not sure how our playing list is in any way responsible for the late 60's through to early 2000's given that most weren't born, let alone on our list for the majority of that time.

Imagine if you were at work and it kept being brought up how [censored] the company has been since the 1960's.

2017 is very relevant as the majority of leadership & list of players are still there. One would think getting rolled in a prelim would burn  & want to achieve more. This goes to the core of our culture/ leadership issues. Which should have stamped out any attitude issues as per Lewis comments. That’s what successful clubs do!

9 hours ago, TGR said:

We recruit Lewis for his leadership.

A leader takes the group with him.

Either Lewis’s leadership is overrated or the group can’t follow.

Lewis has 4 flags.

MFC has 0 flags for 55 years.

Take your pick...

9 hours ago, TGR said:

We recruit Lewis for his leadership.

A leader takes the group with him.

Either Lewis’s leadership is overrated or the group can’t follow.

Says more about how broken and lost the club is that we can bring in some of the most proven leaders in Roos and Lewis and still be in disarray.

Anyway, congrats Jordan on a brilliant career. I hated you as a Hawk, but appreciate that you chose to come to us, and what you brought to our club. You’ve had a better career than any Demon since the 1950s and IMO could become a successful coach.

I fully welcome the message from Jordan for the players to take ownership of the outcome of this season and create their own destiny from here on.  It's almost refreshing to open the Demonland thread and something other than "is Goodwin the right guy?" thread to be dominating the forum.  However, whilst understand MFC supporters urge to vent after the season which we have had, so much of content in this thread is loaded with pessimism and blame mentality with a very narrow focus on part of the whole message delivered by Jordan.

On reflection, I agree that the message delivered by Jordan is actually quite powerful, honest, but also well measured statement with equal parts positively, that throws down the gauntlet to our club to stand up and be counted in the future.  My dissection of the message is this:

1.  Players and coaches got ahead of themselves a bit and took the foot off the gas;

2.  But we know we have the capacity to perform at the required level because of 2018 etc;

3.  Puts some faith in the playing group that they will respond over the next off season and year ahead.

I prefer to put the emphasis on 2 & 3, because 1 is in the past and we can't influence that anymore.

Honestly, I also think the calls for mass culling to create cultural change are over blown as well.  If you believe the hype on this forum, we have already done this time and time over again with the likes of Silvia, Watts, Hogan, Bugg etc and I think that can get to a point where it not only creates scape goats out of them, but also excuses the majority of the playing group from taking responsibility to embed the values and reform each other.

Edited August 22, 20195 yr by Rodney (Balls) Grinter

Can you lead if you wear a wig?

12 minutes ago, Damo said:

Can you lead if you wear a wig?

Ask Trump

Gotta love this roller coaster.......

Players wanting out! What a total suprise, Goody has it all under control Guys

On 8/22/2019 at 12:38 AM, FireInTheBelly said:

In that case Earl, with Macca gone, I hope we're looking to also exit the senior players involved as well. The cancer can't be allowed to grow, it must be cut out until the culture is up to standard. Cannot have the tail wagging the dog.

Yes but what happens IF  these same players are in leadership??

The cancelled training camp says it all!!

Edited August 23, 20195 yr by picket fence

19 minutes ago, willmoy said:

Gotta love this roller coaster.......

its just like one too....we spend ages slowly climbing .....only to get all too brief a glimpse of the apex before plummeting down. We aren't ever at the top...not really

13 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

Hey mate, not sure what any of that has to do with the point to be honest?

The events Lewis is describing happened almost a year ago, so seems fair to say it's 'leaking' out now.

All I've seen from you about preseason is that it all went great and it was totally uninterrupted. Doesn't seem like Lewis shares your view.

Said before I am one who won't accept the preseason as an excuse, I watched it, I saw the amount of work put in, players coming out of rehab were fit and ready to go

Maybe as the games approached, after last season, some players thought it was a given, that is maybe the attitude that Lewis is taking about

We got off to a poor start and it deterioated from there

3 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

Said before I am one who won't accept the preseason as an excuse, I watched it, I saw the amount of work put in, players coming out of rehab were fit and ready to go

Maybe as the games approached, after last season, some players thought it was a given, that is maybe the attitude that Lewis is taking about

We got off to a poor start and it deterioated from there

Appreciate how much of a loyal fan you are mate, but the facts (Misson's famous preseason injury report and now Lewis' comments) don't seem to align with your perception. I admire that you don't want to give them excuses as far as the injuries go, but it's just a reality of our situation and impacted our ability to have match simulation which would have included adjusting to the new rules. Those new rules also would have majorly effected our setup with the 2 players coming off the back of the square, something Jennings was not able to solve or innovate with and he now finds himself out of a job.

15 hours ago, Demon17 said:

Disappointing if true because goody as a serious finals player should know how hard it is to get there and should have been ahead of the curve in pre season.

Is he dumb or just so inexperienced its scary.? ??

Sometimes the players have to experience things to learn from their own mistakes

3 hours ago, picket fence said:

Yes but what happens IF  these same players are in leadership??

The cancelled training camp says it all!!

Even more important to clean them out.  I recall there were some high profile (for us) names mentioned in that story. Happy to see them all moved on, this off season, before it's too late.

22 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

It beggars belief that the whole football department took their eye off the ball and just thought the good times would simply roll around again.

For those that thought:  "It is the pre-season stupid".  We now know from a number of sources that it wasn't.  The primary issue was the Off-Season!

I beg to differ.  I can't confirm or deny these rumours, and that's all they are, regarding coming back in poor condition.  And even if they did come back underdone much of that is able to be made up in the preseason.

But here is what I do know:

These players were in discussions for our best 22 this season:-

 

B:     Jetta  May  Lever

HB:    Salem  OMac  Hibberd 

?  Harmes Oliver Fritsch

HF:    Petracca   Weid  ANB

F:    Melksham TMac Spargo

R:    Gawn   Brayshaw Viney 

I:    Kolo,  Jones, AVB,  J Smith

Others:  Hannan, Preuss, Lewis, Stretch, Frost, Hore

That's 28 players that I would have expected to form the basis of the team for the season.  You can take off and add some of your own but it won't change the arguments below.

These players had significantly interrupted Preseasons (17):  Jones, Harmes, Oliver, Petracca, Brayshaw, Viney Jetta, May, Lever, Hibberd, Melksham, TMac, Kolo, Hannan, Hore, OMac and  Stretch

These players had Injury ruined seasons after a good PS (3):  Weideman,  AVB, JSmith,

These players had a full PS and good run at season (8): Salem, Fritsch, ANB, Spargo, Gawn, Preuss, Frost, Lewis

I'm working from memory so you can correct me on some of the detao;s but the facts are compelling.  17 or our best 28 players had significantly interrupted PS's and three others had significantly disrupted seasons.  It really wouldn't have mattered if they were a bit underdone at the start of PS.  Of the 8 players who had a good go at it only Salem, Fritsch, Gawn and Frost were definite best 22 for me and some will add Lewis. That's 4 players and not one midfielder.

Now fitness aside, is it any wonder connection from backs to forwards through the midfield was awful.  Why?  Because they didn't practice over the PS.  Is it any wonder our skill level was awful.  Why? Because we had a whole lot of NQR players in the team and many who didn't practice over the preseason.

The preseason was the issue not the off season, which may have been garnish to the PS issues but it certainly not the steak.

 

Edited August 23, 20195 yr by Baghdad Bob

5 minutes ago, Baghdad Bob said:

I beg to differ.  I can't confirm or deny these rumours, and that's all they are, regarding coming back in poor condition.  And even if they did come back underdone much of that is able to be made up in the preseason.

But here is what I do know:

These players were in discussions for our best 22 this season:-

 

B:     Jetta  May  Lever

HB:    Salem  OMac  Hibberd 

?  Harmes Oliver Fritsch

HF:    Petracca   Weid  ANB

F:    Melksham TMac Spargo

R:    Gawn   Brayshaw Viney 

I:    Kolo,  Jones, AVB,  J Smith

Others:  Hannan, Preuss, Lewis, Stretch, Frost, Hore

That's 28 players that I would have expected to form the basis of the team for the season.  You can take off and add some of your own but it won't change the arguments below.

These players had significantly interrupted Preseasons (17):  Jones, Harmes, Oliver, Petracca, Brayshaw, Viney Jetta, May, Lever, Hibberd, Melksham, TMac, Kolo, Hannan, Hore, OMac and  Stretch

These players had Injury ruined seasons after a good PS (3):  Weideman,  AVB, JSmith,

These players had a full PS and good run at season (8): Salem, Fritsch, ANB, Spargo, Gawn, Preuss, Frost, Lewis

I'm working from memory so you can correct me on some of the detao;s but the facts are compelling.  17 or our best 28 players had significantly interrupted PS's and three others had significantly disrupted seasons.  It really wouldn't have mattered if they were a bit underdone at the start of PS.  Of the 8 players who had a good go at it only Salem, Fritsch, Gawn and Frost were definite best 22 for me and some will add Lewis. That's 4 players and not one midfielder.

Now fitness aside, is it any wonder connection from backs to forwards through the midfield was awful.  Why?  Because they didn't practice over the PS.  Is it any wonder our skill level was awful.  Why? Because we had a whole lot of NQR players in the team and many who didn't practice over the preseason.

The preseason was the issue not the off season, which may have been garnish to the PS issues but it certainly not the steak.

 

Spot on bb.

As you suggest if player did not come back cherry ripe (which us unforgivable) then that compounds the issue of interrupted preseason and injury as it means some never had a chance of getting close to fit enough. Particularly if they also had postseason surgery and had rehab to do. I suspect Brayshaw is in that camp.

It would be folly to say that the preseason and injuries woes were the only reason, and that there are not other issues at play (e.g. leadership issues, poor culture among players) . But they are the key reason.

Sometimes these threads feel like round and round the garden like a teddy bear ...

On 8/21/2019 at 10:12 PM, Sorry kids said:

Imagine being a member of the team that breaks the drought.

Yes...just imagine...a premiership...and the wooden spoon the year after..

On 8/21/2019 at 9:45 PM, Sir Why You Little said:

You are making excuses for the players Chook

They haven’t been hungry all year. 

Why they are not the Hungriest bunch of kids in the AFL, i will never understand. 

Fact is this Club hasn’t won a Cup in 55 years and we are still eons away

It's truly fascinating that you haven't bored yourself to death by posting the same message over and over with slightly different wording year after year

You're not gonna see a flag from the MFC mate. Accept it.  

Edited August 23, 20195 yr by Smokey

Just now, Smokey said:

It's truly fascinating that you haven't bored yourself to death by posting the same message with slightly different wording year after year

You're not gonna see a flag from the MFC mate. Accept it.  

Wimp. I would never accept such a thought...

Take a long walk if that’s the best you can offer

Just now, Sir Why You Little said:

Wimp. I would never accept such a thought...

Take a long walk if that’s the best you can offer

Then I truly feel you. If this year and all its promise has taught us anything, its that our club's scars are so deep that we will never see true success again. 

Wimp? If you measure courage by following a bad football team then I'm not even sure what to say to that. 

8 minutes ago, Smokey said:

Then I truly feel you. If this year and all its promise has taught us anything, its that our club's scars are so deep that we will never see true success again. 

Wimp? If you measure courage by following a bad football team then I'm not even sure what to say to that. 

Don’t expect me to bend over, just because you have...

Just now, Sir Why You Little said:

Don’t expect me to bend over, just because you have...

Not bending over, just can see our situation for what it is. The financial hit we will cop because of this year will have deep rooted effects. We went from a "sort of" destination club to a club that, from what I'm reading, is looking for hand outs again. 

You've been around long enough - 2018 was the peak of this era, now queue the trough. Your online demands for on field performance equate to zero. 

These insights from Lewis seem to have tipped a few people over the edge. Hasn't it been obvious for years that what we've seen from the players this year is about par for the course from this club? There's been enough evidence over pretty much this century that the cultural issues run deeper than you'd think possible at pro sports level:

- Players deciding what they will and won't do during pre-season consistently over (at least) the last 10 years.
- Players delivering 186.
- Players delivering 148.
- Players delivering one of the most embarrassing halves of professional sport imaginable in the 2018 preliminary final.
- Many stories of the Melbourne Storm players commenting on the lazy and unprofessional approach of the MFC players.
- Many many off the record comments from opposition players and coaching staff on how pi$$ weak they see the collective MFC playing group to be.
- All the stories of the bizarre arrogance of a group of players that opposition clubs see as ripe for the picking with a hint of physicality.

And the main problem? There have been excuses made and excuses accepted for all of this. If the absolute heart of a club, which has to be it's supporter base, doesn't demand better then I just don't see how we're going to get afforded much better. It's seems clear that the playing group aren't showing a lot of pride to elevate themselves off their own bat.

I don't know how you change the culture of a supporter base. But I do know that I am way past having had enough of hearing stories of player divisions, or this player doesn't like playing in x or y position, or whatever else the players don't like about the MFC. I'd like a line in the sand moment. If there's something you don't like, and it's going to effect you in a way that culminates in a lack of desire to compete in a meaningful way for this club, then hand over your jumper and f*&k off. I really no longer care whether they're a perceived star or a first year player. It's all gone on for way too long.