POSTGAME: Rd 03 vs Essendon

[Jaded No More 68,974]

17 minutes ago, Nasher said:

The gist of the message was that he’d been working his butt off to get in shape since arriving. I reckon “public bake” is overselling it; it’s more “we’ll give him the benefit of the doubt, but only once”. 

I’m sure he’s worked his butt off. But he never should have come in to begin with unfit. This was his second chance, a new club on the up, experience some success and good culture. And he turns up unfit. It’s pretty [censored] poor. If he was a kid you’d let it slide. But Jesus he’s been around for long enough now. Combine that with his brain fade in the JLT and I think he’s really not made the best impression. 

I compare him to Lever, 6 years his junior, and the level of professionalism he has shown to his rehab and I shake my head. 

We invested a LOT in him. I hope he repays the faith. Because if he’s gonna continue to be unfit and be sidelined with multiple soft tissue injuries as he was at GC, it will be one of the costliest trading decisions the MFC has made this decade. And God knows they’ve made a few. 

[Adam The God 30,418]

My uncle came across a Melbourne player during the week who said Brendan McCartney was rubbing some of the players up the wrong way, because he was pushing them so hard. It's mere speculation, but I presume that McCartney, like the rest of the FD, realise how low our fitness base is and that therefore we need to push a little harder than you usually would in Rounds 1-3.

The biggest concern for me isn't McCartney in this instance, it's the fact that a player would say this to a random stranger. It's very un-Melbourne-like under the stewardship of Peter Jackson.

The reason I post this is because I know the club read this forum and so I hope we have some internal conversations about loose lips sinking ships. Keep any internal rumblings to a minimum from now on. Thank you.

[Jack son 5 162]

May was picked up in October. 

Why wasn't he monitored over the break regarding his fitness and weight. It just goes to show how amateurish the AFL is, or is it just the MFC.

[John Crow Batty 8,879]

7 minutes ago, A F said:

My uncle came across a Melbourne player during the week who said Brendan McCartney was rubbing some of the players up the wrong way, because he was pushing them so hard. It's mere speculation, but I presume that McCartney, like the rest of the FD, realise how low our fitness base is and that therefore we need to push a little harder than you usually would in Rounds 1-3.

The biggest concern for me isn't McCartney in this instance, it's the fact that a player would say this to a random stranger. It's very un-Melbourne-like under the stewardship of Peter Jackson.

The reason I post this is because I know the club read this forum and so I hope we have some internal conversations about loose lips sinking ships. Keep any internal rumblings to a minimum from now on. Thank you.

As I recall McCartney did not leave the Bulldogs under happy circumstances.

Edited April 6, 2019 by america de cali

[Nasher 33,617]

19 minutes ago, Jaded said:

I’m sure he’s worked his butt off. But he never should have come in to begin with unfit. This was his second chance, a new club on the up, experience some success and good culture. And he turns up unfit. It’s pretty [censored] poor. If he was a kid you’d let it slide. But Jesus he’s been around for long enough now. Combine that with his brain fade in the JLT and I think he’s really not made the best impression. 

I compare him to Lever, 6 years his junior, and the level of professionalism he has shown to his rehab and I shake my head. 

We invested a LOT in him. I hope he repays the faith. Because if he’s gonna continue to be unfit and be sidelined with multiple soft tissue injuries as he was at GC, it will be one of the costliest trading decisions the MFC has made this decade. And God knows they’ve made a few. 

The guy’s played at the Gold Coast his whole career. It’s no different to how our players from 2008-2012 went to other clubs and went “I didn’t know how fit you had to be to play AFL LULZ”. It’s why I think he gets the benefit of the doubt *once*.

If he turns up unfit next year, I’ll be right there with you with pitchfork and burning torch in hand.

We invested a lot in Clarry too, and he turned up fat in the 17-18 preseason. He worked his arse off to fix it, had a great year, and turned up this year in good nick despite having had surgery on both shoulders. Benefit of the doubt, once.

[titan_uranus 25,043]

1 hour ago, Scoop Junior said:

I've got a lot of faith in Goodwin. He's a smart operator and has shown before some innovative tactics and also an ability to adjust to get us out of a hole. It was also good to hear him specifically refer to the team defence and that we leak far too many goals, which in turn gives the opposition belief and confidence. That was the biggest issue last night.

I disagree with some on here about the changes to the game making it an uncontested game. I still believe a game based on contested footy is the right way to go. The year is still young and as the rounds roll on it usually becomes more contested. And we know that finals footy has always been a contested style of footy.

So I don't believe we need to fundamentally change our approach as being a contest-based side. What we do need to do though IMO is to make some slight tweaks, both in terms of structure and personnel, to be able to defend better when we're not dominating the contest and to get some more spread away from the contest.

We've actually been fairly ordinary in the contest this year. Last night Essendon beat us in contested ball and clearances and they are far from an accomplished contest team. So of course our game plan will look a failure when we are not achieving the key fundamentals of the plan, which then fully exposes our weaknesses. Getting our forward 50 pressure and contested work back to something resembling last year will make a massive difference, but clearly we need to consider some more conservative set ups behind the ball.

I agree.

The 6-6-6 thing is being overplayed. Outside of initial centre bounces, teams are setting up the way they want.

We lost the CP count twice last year and IIRC we were averaging 10+ more CPs per game than our opponents.

But we're 0-3 so far this year.

We're a side built on winning CPs and setting up our game from stoppages but we're being beaten at our core strength. And our gameplan is such that if we're not on top at the coalface, we don't have anything to fall back on.

Oliver and Brayshaw are playing well but as a collective our midfield isn't reaching the CP/clearance level we hit last year. We approached this year on the basis that our game starts in the middle. Being off in the middle means we're seeing flow on effects everywhere else.

Our gameplan has always exposed our back half, we saw it last year repeatedly (e.g. vs Hawthorn, Richmond, St Kilda, Sydney). But we were able to cover during our wins when we had CP/stoppage dominance and forward half pressure. The ball would be camped in our forward half and we would relentlessly pressure our opponents until we got the ball back.

The losses of Hannan and vandenBerg are hurting our forward pressure, as is the simultaneous decrease in form of TMac, Petracca and ANB. And as the pressure is dialled up on our back six, the loss of Lewis has robbed us of vital leadership (not to mention having both Lever and May on the sidelines, both of whom are significantly more talented than Frost and OMac). Then when you take that lack of leadership/talent and you add Hibberd and Jetta, two reliable A-graders, being out of form, and it becomes much easier to understand our three losses.

[Macca 17,034]

35 minutes ago, loges said:

Think you can add Hannan to your list.

It is not really my list loges although it might look that way.  I see it as the MC's list based on how they select teams.   And the better players stand out anyway.

Anyway,  my point is that our good players are collectively well down on form ... thus,  it is a struggle to win games.

Back 6 or 7 years ago we hardly had a decent player so the losses were inevitable.   Wins were never expected. 

Again,  pointing the finger at the lesser lights or fringe players is pointless.  They are never going to be difference makers anyway.

[—coach— 3,496]

1 hour ago, OzJackyl said:

I guess my question is: Is Goody the coach to lead the club forward? He's been out-coached three weeks in a row, and doesn't seem to have reinforced Roosy's message of "Defence wins matches!" He also doesn't seem to have plans B, C, and Dee, when the initial plan no longer works. Not to mention the consistent selection of Frost, and OMac... Not that there's much alternative though... But still... Need some new ideas. 20 goals against is not going to Win you many games of footy. (Sigh) 2012 anyone? 

I had an interesting conversation with a coach of a team I won’t name. It’s his view that it’s the coach of the specific area who is responsible for the vast majority of the coaching and strategy in that area and the head coach is largely a manager of other coaches. This fits with what we have seen at both collingwood and Richmond in sacking their assistant coaches and retaining their head coach which in both cases was a very successful move. Others have posted on here that there may be rumblings on specific assistant coaches at the moment and I wonder if we will see a shake up in that area at years end. 

Edited April 6, 2019 by —coach—

[Moonshadow 17,677]

51 minutes ago, Jack son 5 said:

May was picked up in October. 

Why wasn't he monitored over the break regarding his fitness and weight. It just goes to show how amateurish the AFL is, or is it just the MFC.

It takes more than 4 months for a guy his size to build fitness from GCS level to AFL premium level.

I read the article as saying that the standards at GCS were low and he now needs to aim higher.

[beelzebub 23,383]

17 minutes ago, —coach— said:

I had an interesting conversation with a coach of a team I won’t name. It’s his view that it’s the coach of the specific area who is responsible for the vast majority of the coaching and strategy in that area and the head coach is largely a manager of other coaches. This fits with what we have seen at both collingwood and Richmond in sacking their assistant coaches and retaining their head coach which in both cases was a very successful move. Others have posted on here that there may be rumblings on specific assistant coaches at the moment and I wonder if we will see a shake up in that area at years end. 

Arguably true. I would add the senior coach sets the strategy...the assistants make (or not ) that happen.

The buck stops with Goodwin in that regard.

He not only is required to oversee the players ..in incumbent upon him to manage the assistants.

Where we go is presently up to him.

[old dee 23,872]

2 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Arguably true. I would add the senior coach sets the strategy...the assistants make (or not ) that happen.

The buck stops with Goodwin in that regard.

He not only is required to oversee the players ..in incumbent upon him to manage the assistants.

Where we go is presently up to him.

Not far bb.

[Clayton van Oliver 1,823]

I'm not worried. We will come good. Only 3 weeks in, Goody ain't dumb, everyone needs to chill out.

[Jack son 5 162]

7 minutes ago, AmDamDemon said:

I'm not worried. We will come good. Only 3 weeks in, Goody ain't dumb, everyone needs to chill out.

Like your optimism. I just feel really flat after last year. 

Only 6 teams since 1994 have gone on to play finals from 0 - 3.

[Jack son 5 162]

41 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

It takes more than 4 months for a guy his size to build fitness from GCS level to AFL premium level.

I read the article as saying that the standards at GCS were low and he now needs to aim higher.

Thanks for that. It looks like even GC are fitter and stronger than the MFC atm. 

Agree with posters claiming we need a department clean out from assistant coaches and fitness staff.

[Thehardtackler 785]

Hate Gillon McClachlan and the AFL. Leave the rules alone. Tanking debacle needs to be left alone. Team need to bind together and shove it up the AFL and it all it entails for making it even harder than it should be to win a game.

[sisso 2,580]

1 hour ago, AmDamDemon said:

I'm not worried. We will come good. Only 3 weeks in, Goody ain't dumb, everyone needs to chill out.

I agree that at some stage we will play decent footy this season but like Essendon last year, it may be too little too late

[DV8 2,271]

16 hours ago, A F said:

He's too slow for a wing, he offers very little leadership and still goes around aimlessly bombing it when there are better options in front of him. 

This is a hangover our our old culture and skills,  when Jonesy was a youngster.

16 hours ago, A F said:

 

It speaks volumes for the rest of the leadership stocks on our list that he was made captain again.

Maybe its purely there is no one else worthy. Yet.

Viney ? sore can't run.  TMc ?  sore can't run.   Who else ?

I don't think we have any leaders coming on for a couple of years after Viney TMc. 

Gawn is too busy with his role.

Edited April 6, 2019 by DV8

[jnrmac 20,186]

3 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

True.

But you won't win with forwards and mids who apply inconsistent pressure either.  The way they ran the ball up and down the ground was ridiculously easy, and if we want to get back on track, we'll need to improve in that area quickly.

For 4 years we have been in the bottom 3 clubs for defending one on ones. It's not rocket science. We can't defend. It's also no surprise why we have sold the farm for Lever and May. We are desperate for key backs. Oscar has no attributes as a footballer. He can't take a contested mark, he gets outbodied easily, his positioning is poor, he has a Queen Mary turning circle and he is slow. He is an OK decision maker with ball in hand and has neat disposal but so he should to get to this level.

You speak as if this is something new. We were 9th last year for defence in terms of score. We leak like a sieve and teams have in recent years been able to pile on multiple goals in quick time against us. Yes we play a team defence but FFS a defender has got to be able to defend and OMac can't do it. He is a total liability as a footballer.

130 pts against with 50 i50s 2 weeks running. It's about as poor as it gets.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

1 minute ago, jnrmac said:

For 4 years we have been in the bottom 3 clubs for defending one on ones. It's not rocket science. We can't defend. It's also no surprise why we have sold the farm for Lever and May. We are desperate for key backs. Oscar has no attributes as a footballer. He can't take a contested mark, he gets outbodied easily, his positioning is poor, he has a Queen Mary turning circle and he is slow. He is an OK decision maker with ball in hand and has neat disposal but so he should to get to this level.

You speak as if this is something new. We were 9th last year for defence in terms of score. We leak like a sieve and teams have in recent years been able to pile on multiple goals in quick time against us. Yes we play a team defence but FFS a defender has got to be able to defend and OMac can't do it. He is a total liability as a footballer.

130 pts against with 50 i50s 2 weeks running. It's about as poor as it gets.

I don't see why you felt the need to elaborate when I had already agreed with you. 

Don't worry, I haven't changed my mind in the last few hours.  

[jnrmac 20,186]

1 hour ago, AmDamDemon said:

I'm not worried. We will come good. Only 3 weeks in, Goody ain't dumb, everyone needs to chill out.

Great that you are relaxed about this. From where I sit we have lost the last 6 games straight and don't look like putting together a decent game. We have won something like 7 qtrs of football out of the last 24.

But you are relaxed so its all OK.

[jnrmac 20,186]

2 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

I don't see why you felt the need to elaborate when I had already agreed with you. 

Don't worry, I haven't changed my mind in the last few hours.  

Everyone needs to vent sometimes 

[Demonland 73,140]

2019 IS NOT 2018 by George on the Outer

Seems like an obvious statement doesn’t it?  

Yet the MFC coaching staff/team seem to have forgotten to change their calendars on January 1st.

A 3 goal loss against the equal bottom side in the competition and now with a 0-3 record for the current season, it should be obvious that things have changed from 2018.  Not so on the field, as Melbourne continue to play the style which got them to a Preliminary final.  

Once again the Demons saw 20 goals scored against them for the game.  It is easy for the coach to come out and say “ we were scored against easily” but the reason that happened is probably because we are still playing the game as it was played in 2018.

The rules have changed, and other teams have worked us out.  The Melbourne “brand” of contested football is fine if you win the ball, when you don’t it means you leak goals because we have insufficient players behind and outside the contest.  It is why we see other teams this season “waltz” the ball into goal.  It is why opposition forwards are seen to be un-manned.  

The Rules have changed.  6-6-6 was introduced to open the game up in the middle.  The jury on that aspect is still out, but opposition coaches are now sitting a resting ruck in their forward line in lieu and we have seen it in all 3 games in 2019.  In this game Zac Clarke was brought into the side to do exactly that alongside Bellchambers.  

They had little effect as players, but it forced us to put one of our tall defenders on them and that opened the gate for Stringer, Tipungwuti and McKernan who each kicked 4 goals!

And our resting ruck?…..he will be playing at Casey.

It may not be obvious to some but Jesse Hogan is now playing for Fremantle.  We are playing with 1 less tall forward in 2019.  So why is Sam Weidemann being used as a substitute ruck?

In this game against the Bombers, we saw the ridiculous situation when Tom McDonald injured an ankle in the 2nd quarter, had to leave the ground, and then was used on a wing.  Max Gawn was resting on the bench and Weideman was rucking.  Even after Gawn came back on, Weideman had to be rested on the bench.  Having Gawn return to the ruck position saw Melbourne’s resurgence in that quarter.  Does that not send a message we need a full-time ruckman on the ground?

It is easy when the opposition kicks 20 goals to focus on the backline.  There is no doubt that Oscar McDonald is playing well below par.  Frost is filling a hole, which he will probably continue to do so, even with the return of May and Lever.  But they are being asked to take on opponents much bigger and stronger than themselves, especially with resting rucks dropping back.  

Then to top it off we are still following the mantra of going at the man with the ball, even if it means 3 Melbourne players doing exactly the same thing, resulting in loose opposition players.

And the backline needs help, especially with our current defender drought. The wingers need to get back to cover, but instead are heading toward the middle like they did in 2018.  In 2019 it should be the HFF’s heading to the wing and the middle, but hey it worked last year, didn’t it?

The disfunction of the forward line is more critical, because this is from where the opposition in 2019 have launched their attacks.  Contested football isn’t just in the middle, and once again the lack of pressure from the forwards to keep the ball inside the scoring area was appalling.  We saw Melbourne players all flying for the ball leaving no-one crumbing.  

The times when Hunt and Lockhart stayed on the ground saw them rewarded, but it was the exception. Neal-Bulleen provided nothing again in the forward line, with his opponent Saad doubling his possessions. 2018 performances shouldn’t get games in 2019.

This week the Hun re-opened the wounds of the “tanking saga” of the 2009 season ... winning no more than 4 games was thought to be a good thing, because it worked for Carlton, Collingwood, Hawthorn and others in previous years.  

Well that turned out really well didn’t it, since we learned playing by last years rules doesn’t get you reward.  

Are we making the same mistake on the field in 2019?
 
Melbourne  3.1.19 10.1.61 12.3.75 18.4.112

Essendon 6.4.40 8.6.54 15.6.96 20.10.130

Goals

Melbourne Harmes Hunt 3 Lockhart Melksham Weideman 2 Brayshaw Gawn Kolodjashnij Neal-Bullen Petracca C Wagner

Essendon McDonald-Tipungwuti McKernan Stringer 4 Fantasia Smith 2 Baguley McGrath Parish Zaharakis

 Best 

Melbourne Gawn Brayshaw Hunt Oliver Harmes Lockhart

Essendon Heppell Shiel McDonald-Tipungwuti Zaharakis Stringer Fantasia 

Injuries 

Melbourne T McDonald (ankle)

Essendon Mutch (hamstring), Francis (corked quad)

Reports Nil

Umpires Stevic Harris Haussen

Official crowd 52,475 at the MCG

[Demonsone 2,044]

5 hours ago, beelzebub said:

""When asked how the defender turned up to pre-season, Lyon replied: “By his own admission, not in the best shape.

“He said he was adjusting to the training standards of the Melbourne Football Club and then proceeded to run last in the time trial.""

extract from:

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2019/04/01/he's-come-in-underdone-lyon-calls-may's-professionalism-into-question/

Every team has a player who comes last in a time trial.... the question what were his times  vs the others & afl benchmark? not denying his fitness was not up to scratch  but would be good to all the facts

 

[Dee Dee 1,117]

OK so this is the post game discussion, well let me tell you what happened to me post game!

I left the ground in what could be called a blue funk, that is very unhappy,  and hurried to catch the tram to the city.         Got on tram, tram very crowded with mainly disgruntled Melbourne supporters, doors close, we are packed in like the proverbial sardines. Tram starts and so does the drive! He starts singing the Essendon team song in the loudest possible voice over the PA, then he treats us to his assessment of the Melbourne football team then it’s back to the team song, and on it went.  Oh it was great fun, especially with the driver cocooned in his toughened glass drivers cabin. I was really peed of so I got off at Flinders Street and walked the rest of the way up the road to where I’d parked my car. The tram driver was an old bloke (early 60s maybe) who was wearing an Essendon cap. Quite a strange experience and I’m not sure Yarra Trams, or whoever would approve. 

[Clayton van Oliver 1,823]

35 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Great that you are relaxed about this. From where I sit we have lost the last 6 games straight and don't look like putting together a decent game. We have won something like 7 qtrs of football out of the last 24.

But you are relaxed so its all OK.

Yea nah we're gonna be fine. And if you're going to count pre-season games, didn't we beat collingwood in a meaningless praccy? So I would put it at 4 matches. We had as bad a run last year, then we tweaked, learned and improved. We're going to be fine.