POSTGAME: Rd 03 vs Essendon

[beelzebub 23,380]

4 minutes ago, RedButMostlyBlue said:

Yep! So much unknown, but max excitement for the challenges and joy ahead. It's been a long road. I've had the kid's Dees gear ready for a while haha. I've also had to get in early, as my wife is a Pies supporter (sorry) (although to be fair, she's more of quiet Dee nowadays).

You have any little Dees?

It's a blended family mine. Hers are both Essendon though my wife and all her her lot are practically Collingwood. My girl turned defiant years ago when we were rubbish ( hmmm ...) and began following Aints. My lad though not an ardent footy fan does support Melbourne

It's probably ok to adorn yours in red and blue...by the time the kid understands footy hopefully we've bounced back.  . Hopefully 

Go Dees and again all the very best.

Life will never be the same...but that's a good thing

[Red But Mostly Blue 4,547]

2 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

It's a blended family mine. Hers are both Essendon though my wife and all her her lot are practically Collingwood. My girl turned defiant years ago when we were rubbish ( hmmm ...) and began following Aints. My lad though not an ardent footy fan does support Melbourne

It's probably ok to adorn yours in red and blue...by the time the kid understands footy hopefully we've bounced back.  . Hopefully 

Go Dees and again all the very best.

Life will never be the same...but that's a good thing

Oh wow, last night would have had plenty of vested interests then haha (especially the sisters v bro). I can relate to the family mix, I defied a family full of Tigers to become a Dee way back when Jimmy and Garry threw me a footy when I was 7 (I'm so cheap haha).

Very true, I'm banking on the long-term here.

Thanks a lot, appreciate it - I'm looking forward to life being very different ? 

[Macca 17,016]

We just looked undermanned (again)  We need our best players available and playing well and we're a long way short of that.  So if you work from the results backwards there's your logical explanation.  We'll come good at some stage,  all's not lost.  Expectations are/were through the roof though so thus the angst & frustration. 

But my motto has always been - you win games with your good players available & playing well otherwise you're highly likely to lose.  This sort of reminds me of 1995 - 1997 when we had all those injuries to our best players.  Talent wins - there's nothing surer. 

No good wasting time arguing about the merits of non-difference makers ... they really aren't the problem because they are never going to be top players.  But if you list our best 15,  about 2/3rds are either not available or not playing well.  And that is a fact,  not an opinion.

Again,  at some stage we'll come good but unless that happens in the not too distant future,  finals are a stretch.  I reckon we'll win at least 10 games from the next 19.  I've already come to terms with our season.  But there again,  I'm an absolute realist.   

[Macca 17,016]

.

Edited April 6, 2019 by Macca

[At the break of Gawn 4,460]

Watched the second qtr replay on Fox. The only reason we got back in the game and looked better at repelling our defence was due to Essendon’s poor entry from stoppages purely from skill level (mainly from Dylan Shiel). They weren’t even pressured kicks. After the poor entries we were good at transitioning back (we kicked 6 goals straight from the back half). We’re a forward half team so it wasn’t even our brand, but we were just fortunate Shiel can’t kick. 

Hence, our defence was just as diabolical as ever in that second qtr but it was masked by unforced error entries from Essendon. The defensive positioning of our midfielders at stoppages and even in general play is a complete shambles.

Edited April 6, 2019 by At the break of Gawn

[Demonsone 2,042]

1 hour ago, Moonshadow said:

Omeara was not a late pick trade. They paid at least one 1st rounder for him, think it was more.

Can you please link a quote from the club or anything close to the club as saying May presented in poor shape? I seem to remember reading the opposite 

This thread is morphing into the fact check thread 

Edit. Omeara cost pick 10 and future 2nd round 

You are  correct factually ....my point is many clubs role the dice, with the Hawks both those players have serious injuries which may impact their playing futures. Fact is May admitted himself he was behind the 8 ball, come last in time trials,

[Wrecker45 3,378]

13 hours ago, BAMF said:

I know a few people are getting upset about Weids tonight. 

I feel like a lot of fans got carried away with what he produced in the finals last year. He isn't ready to consistently take the game by the scruff of the neck. He will have a lot of games where he will struggle to get involved over the next 12 months. He will also have a couple of blinders.

He is a young KPF who has good hands on the lead and a great set shot for goal who is playing in a team who continually bomb the ball into the forward 50 with no thought to kick it to advantage.  He only needs to get his mitts on the ball a few times a game to make the most of it but we continually bomb it in. Very frustrating. 

He got 2 goals tonight. Delivered the ball into the forward 50 to advantage KK to set up another (exactly the reverse of what should happen) and played out 87% game time including a smidgen in the ruck. Its about what I expect from a young kpf with 22 games to his name.

Bombing it in should suit Weid. He is supposed to be a great contested mark and able to mark the ball at the highest point.

[Macca 17,016]

Best 15

• Lewis - injured
• Lever - injured
• May - injured
• Petracca - not doing enough, not impacting games
• Harmes - ditto
• Jones - ditto
• Viney - ditto
• Melksham - ditto
• T-Mac - ditto
• Jetta - ditto
• Hibberd - ditto
• Gawn - playing ok - can do more
• Salem - playing ok - can do more
• Brayshaw - playing well
• Oliver - playing well.

So how do you win games with that output?  The answer is you don't. 

Injuries can be used as a reason but poor form is poor form ... and if you are out there,  you're deemed as 100% ready to go.  So there are no excuses.

Others

• Fritsch - playing ok
• vandenBerg - injured
• Neal - Bullen - not doing enough,  not impacting games.

As always,  it's all about our senior players and/or our best players.

[Moonshadow 17,676]

8 minutes ago, Demonsone said:

You are  correct factually ....my point is many clubs role the dice, with the Hawks both those players have serious injuries which may impact their playing futures. Fact is May admitted himself he was behind the 8 ball, come last in time trials,

Link please 

[bringbackthebiff 654]

One positive as a Melbourne supporter is that we are very well conditioned to disappointment 

[beelzebub 23,380]

3 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

Link please 

""When asked how the defender turned up to pre-season, Lyon replied: “By his own admission, not in the best shape.

“He said he was adjusting to the training standards of the Melbourne Football Club and then proceeded to run last in the time trial.""

extract from:

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2019/04/01/he's-come-in-underdone-lyon-calls-may's-professionalism-into-question/

[Lucifers Hero 40,004]

1 hour ago, Moonshadow said:

Omeara was not a late pick trade. They paid at least one 1st rounder for him, think it was more.

Can you please link a quote from the club or anything close to the club as saying May presented in poor shape? I seem to remember reading the opposite 

This thread is morphing into the fact check thread 

Edit. Omeara cost pick 10 and future 2nd round 

In his pre-game press conf two days ago Goodwin wouldn't buy into May's fitness on arrival at the club.  Change of tune now:

Goodwin on SEN today:  “He certainly won’t be coming back to pre-season in that nick again, that’s for sure,” Goodwin throws down the gauntlet to May

Happy for Goodwin to give a senior player a bit of a public bake.

[Gator 17,385]

Notwithstanding that some of you wait with baited breath for preseason reports from those (can't be named) that argue players did not have an interrupted preseason (incredible), Goodwin said this morning on SEN that ''every one of our midfielders spent most of the preseason in rehab''.

It's not the only problem, but we're coming from a long way back across the entire ground.

[Scoop Junior 3,474]

I've got a lot of faith in Goodwin. He's a smart operator and has shown before some innovative tactics and also an ability to adjust to get us out of a hole. It was also good to hear him specifically refer to the team defence and that we leak far too many goals, which in turn gives the opposition belief and confidence. That was the biggest issue last night.

I disagree with some on here about the changes to the game making it an uncontested game. I still believe a game based on contested footy is the right way to go. The year is still young and as the rounds roll on it usually becomes more contested. And we know that finals footy has always been a contested style of footy.

So I don't believe we need to fundamentally change our approach as being a contest-based side. What we do need to do though IMO is to make some slight tweaks, both in terms of structure and personnel, to be able to defend better when we're not dominating the contest and to get some more spread away from the contest.

We've actually been fairly ordinary in the contest this year. Last night Essendon beat us in contested ball and clearances and they are far from an accomplished contest team. So of course our game plan will look a failure when we are not achieving the key fundamentals of the plan, which then fully exposes our weaknesses. Getting our forward 50 pressure and contested work back to something resembling last year will make a massive difference, but clearly we need to consider some more conservative set ups behind the ball.

 

 

[jnrmac 20,109]

1 hour ago, Wiseblood said:

No, they can't, but blaming him for what happened last night is short sighted at best.

Was he to blame for the ease with which they often ran the ball off their half back line, or burst away from stoppages, or broke tackles that we should have been sticking?  Our half forward line and midfield needs to work a hell of a lot harder than what it is right now.

Oscar obviously isn't the way forward for us, but he is also not the main cause of the problem.

You will never win games with defenders that can't defend.

[Jaded No More 68,967]

10 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

In his pre-game press conf two days ago Goodwin wouldn't buy into May's fitness on arrival at the club.  Change of tune now:

Goodwin on SEN today:  “He certainly won’t be coming back to pre-season in that nick again, that’s for sure,” Goodwin throws down the gauntlet to May

Happy for Goodwin to give a senior player a bit of a public bake.

This makes me so angry. We traded a 50 goal a year forward (for a combination of reasons which I support btw), and then gave up pick 6 for someone who wasn’t even in shape! 

I like May and I know why we traded for him, but FML how did the club not do their due diligence? Why did Goodwin not go meet with him during the trade period and tell him he has to come in to pre season raring to go. I mean what sort of a 27 year old footballer even needs to be told that? And he was a vice captain? Laughable stuff  

Our backline is an epic failure and the player we recruited and spent so much on to rectify that isn’t playing because he’s unfit. The mind boggles. 

[OzJackyl 1]

I guess my question is: Is Goody the coach to lead the club forward? He's been out-coached three weeks in a row, and doesn't seem to have reinforced Roosy's message of "Defence wins matches!" He also doesn't seem to have plans B, C, and Dee, when the initial plan no longer works. Not to mention the consistent selection of Frost, and OMac... Not that there's much alternative though... But still... Need some new ideas. 20 goals against is not going to Win you many games of footy. (Sigh) 2012 anyone? 

[John Crow Batty 8,871]

17 minutes ago, Jaded said:

This makes me so angry. We traded a 50 goal a year forward (for a combination of reasons which I support btw), and then gave up pick 6 for someone who wasn’t even in shape! 

I like May and I know why we traded for him, but FML how did the club not do their due diligence? Why did Goodwin not go meet with him during the trade period and tell him he has to come in to pre season raring to go. I mean what sort of a 27 year old footballer even needs to be told that? And he was a vice captain? Laughable stuff  

Our backline is an epic failure and the player we recruited and spent so much on to rectify that isn’t playing because he’s unfit. The mind boggles. 

I just hope May hasn’t brought GC standards and attitudes with him to the club. 

[Wiseblood 24,637]

19 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

You will never win games with defenders that can't defend.

True.

But you won't win with forwards and mids who apply inconsistent pressure either.  The way they ran the ball up and down the ground was ridiculously easy, and if we want to get back on track, we'll need to improve in that area quickly.

[Nasher 33,616]

34 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

In his pre-game press conf two days ago Goodwin wouldn't buy into May's fitness on arrival at the club.  Change of tune now:

Goodwin on SEN today:  “He certainly won’t be coming back to pre-season in that nick again, that’s for sure,” Goodwin throws down the gauntlet to May

Happy for Goodwin to give a senior player a bit of a public bake.

The gist of the message was that he’d been working his butt off to get in shape since arriving. I reckon “public bake” is overselling it; it’s more “we’ll give him the benefit of the doubt, but only once”. 

[rolling fog 1,207]

2 minutes ago, america de cali said:

I just hope May hasn’t brought GC standards and attitudes with him to the club. 

I heard the Crunch Time interview with Goodwin on SEN this morning. Then flicked over the 3AW to hear what they were saying. 

I've tried to find it online, but doesn't look like it's been uploaded yet: Caro had some very interesting insights into the skin fold levels, training standards and general attitude of senior players at GC last year. Player's skin folds were published for all (internally) to see which drove a strong push to uplift the training standards, which was met with a lot of resistance and 'complaining' by senior on field leaders.

Look - we all hear things around the traps, and this little bit of detail from Caro just further solidifies a lot of the things I and many of us have been hearing about May's approach and where he's at.

[dees189227 12,394]

“Steven May certainly won’t be turning up to pre-season like that again that’s for sure” Simon Goodwin on SEN this morning. So did he turn up unfit or overweight? 

When I left the ground last night Steven May actually walked past . There are a few questions you could have asked him.

 I just didn't think we'd find ourselves in this position again. I mean Roosy came in and the first thing he wanted to fix was our defence. We got that right and now it seems to have fallen apart. I mean r1 essendon kicked only 5 goals and last week only 9. Lat night we allowd them to kick 20. Trust us to bring stringer back into some form and seriously when is McKernan going to kick 4 again? It's just typical melbourne. 

I have no idea what has happened, but there are players that have definitely not bought there 2018 form. 

Anyway it will test goody and we will see what happens this week. 

But gee it was horrible waking up this morning and remembering your footy team lost a team you hate and never want to lose to. 

[John for DEES 0]

14 hours ago, PJ_12345 said:

Im so disappointed.

It seems to me that the game has passed us by.

- too many players going for 1 ball (an issue last year)
- not enough spreading (an issue last year)
- mass inside 50s which clearly is a quality vs. quantity issue
- poor forward pressure
- zone defence when the game's 6v6v6 format advantages 1on1
- poor kicks from defence to 40m when clubs are taking advantage of new rules to 60m

The stock is there, but the strategy isnt. Really poor coaching.

We've lost a prelim, 2 JLTs and 3 2019 games... thats 6 in a row. What have we done to change?

Never thought we'd be 3 rounds in and #18.

I agree with all of PJ_12345's points.

In terms of depth I rate our list as our best since 1964. Injuries have taken some toll, sure. But we can still put 22 talented players on the park and I see no lack of effort from them.

What we most lack IMO is elite ball-use (with a few exceptions), effective pre-game preparation and, above all, effective game strategies - especially when our opponents get a run on. I think it's time our coaches and conditioning staff showed supporters some accountability for why our team is going backwards while some less-talented teams are going forward.

[loges 6,767]

33 minutes ago, OzJackyl said:

I guess my question is: Is Goody the coach to lead the club forward? He's been out-coached three weeks in a row, and doesn't seem to have reinforced Roosy's message of "Defence wins matches!" He also doesn't seem to have plans B, C, and Dee, when the initial plan no longer works. Not to mention the consistent selection of Frost, and OMac... Not that there's much alternative though... But still... Need some new ideas. 20 goals against is not going to Win you many games of footy. (Sigh) 2012 anyone? 

You can probably find this topic from last year with about 1000 posts before we had our run into the finals.

[loges 6,767]

1 hour ago, Macca said:

Best 15

• Lewis - injured
• Lever - injured
• May - injured
• Petracca - not doing enough, not impacting games
• Harmes - ditto
• Jones - ditto
• Viney - ditto
• Melksham - ditto
• T-Mac - ditto
• Jetta - ditto
• Hibberd - ditto
• Gawn - playing ok - can do more
• Salem - playing ok - can do more
• Brayshaw - playing well
• Oliver - playing well.

So how do you win games with that output?  The answer is you don't. 

Injuries can be used as a reason but poor form is poor form ... and if you are out there,  you're deemed as 100% ready to go.  So there are no excuses.

Others

• Fritsch - playing ok
• vandenBerg - injured
• Neal - Bullen - not doing enough,  not impacting games.

As always,  it's all about our senior players and/or our best players.

Think you can add Hannan to your list.