4 hours ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Cox has a minimum six inch height advantage that Colingwood have learnt to use well. Same does not go Weideman but I agree delivery could improve

My setup with Rreuss in...  is start Preuss in a pocket with Weide in the goal-square, and a regular but quicker Forward 50

When Preuss is out...  again start Weide in the goal-square.   So he can see the plays better... and lead up to the play.

Surround him with pacy smalls.

Get Petracca out of the F50...  he is too slow and cumbersome.   Rotate him thru the middle,  off the bench.   Or back to Casey.

https://finalsiren.com/MatchDetails.asp?GameID=8120&Code=ff9a70a61fa0683d9d8f4785cf57a00b

4 hours ago, At the break of Gawn said:

Being the masochist that I am, I watched the replay this morning. A few more observations:

a) Gawn or the coaching staff mistimed his break during the 3rd qtr. While Gawn was on the bench, Nankervis went forward so Frost had to match up on him. This left Hore on Riewoldt and led to Riewoldt kicking two relatively easy goals beating Hore in the air. Once Gawn came back onto the ground he went behind the ball and took some much needed contested marks back there. 

b) Despite his ball in hand errors, Tmac was actually pretty good. I still think he needs to play forward a long with Preuss. Preuss playing would have changed Richmond's defence completely I feel. Forward line next week has to be Tmac, Preuss and one of Smith of Weideman.I think oMac has to come back or play Keilty or Petty. Gawn will have to play behind the ball again if Mitchell Lewis plays for them given that would equal 3 tall players for them. 

c) Stack gave Hunt a bath. 

d) Jones was actually pretty good across half back. He got to every contest in his vicinity that I saw. He's much more suited there rather than on the wing.

e) Viney easily could have side-stepped the Stack hit. It's almost like Viney wanted the contact. Just typical of him trying to take players on and failing.

f) Stretch was good. Definitely earns a couple more weeks.

g) I can't work out what role Harmes was playing either that or he just had a really poor game I felt. 

Re Stretch I thought it was his best game at AFL level. On previous occasions he's tended to get lost in the speed of the game but last night in such a pressure game he consistently won or halved contests, was good with the ball and looked to gain confidence as the game wore on. Hope he backs up with a good game next week and builds confidence from here. 

2 minutes ago, chookrat said:

Re Stretch I thought it was his best game at AFL level. On previous occasions he's tended to get lost in the speed of the game but last night in such a pressure game he consistently won or halved contests, was good with the ball and looked to gain confidence as the game wore on. Hope he backs up with a good game next week and builds confidence from here. 

I agree with that. One of the very few positives

7 minutes ago, chookrat said:

Re Stretch I thought it was his best game at AFL level. On previous occasions he's tended to get lost in the speed of the game but last night in such a pressure game he consistently won or halved contests, was good with the ball and looked to gain confidence as the game wore on. Hope he backs up with a good game next week and builds confidence from here. 

Agree. Billy will be a good player if given the chance. He has endurance and pace. Needs to always kick the footy and use quick ball movement. 

6 hours ago, DV8 said:

It Might be time to send him (Weide) back to Rawlings,  to find his form and confidence, once again.

Sometimes,  difficult to do in an inform side... but in a team playing like ours at the moment, we might be better off with him going to Casey Demons for a couple of weeks.

 

Play Dec Keilty and tSmith up front...  with a heap of pace around them.

.

No just fix up his leading patterns and get the midfielders to lower their eyes, rather than BOMBING. LOckett could not kick goals with how the ball is coming in.

Our biggest problem is the delivery from the midfield !!!!

Second biggest problem is the attack of fumbles last night ,just when they started to mve the ball

Our Defence was pretty good last night considering the pressure they were under.

27 minutes ago, dimmy said:

No just fix up his leading patterns and get the midfielders to lower their eyes, rather than BOMBING. LOckett could not kick goals with how the ball is coming in.

Our biggest problem is the delivery from the midfield !!!!

Second biggest problem is the attack of fumbles last night ,just when they started to mve the ball

Our Defence was pretty good last night considering the pressure they were under.

I know the delivery forward is shizen...  but if he started deep, he could be on the move forward looking for the ball,  instead of it landing on his head or behind him...  and he can meet the ball or the contest.

And when they bomb, kick to a shorter position, instead of deep.  I like the defenders drawn out a bit higher,  so we can get 360* options,  when the ball comes to ground.

 

3 hours ago, Rusty Nails said:

Again Loges if you can put someone forward on our list who can play a similar role near goal as Jeffy and is better at it right now im happy to give it a rethink.

The way the bulk of this team is performing right now im pretty sure Jeffy will be getting a decent block of games from here.  Let's see what he (along with and in comparison to the other forwards in the team) delivers.

As I've said on many occasions since Prueee was first played out of the square against the Swans with good effect...Jeffy is a perfect foil for him when he's in.

Playing them tegother in the same roles close to goal for a solid block of games will allow them settle in and get to know each other's strengths and weaknesses and gain some trust.  The big bustling tall and the quick agile small of it will offer a great challenge to the opponents and their match ups on game day.  Also minding an in form Jeffy takes one less speedster away from playing higher up the field and splitting us open in a more damaging part of the field on the counter.

These are the little things we need to do to test and stretch out opponents and try and make the best of our own strengths.

If i was a mid fielder i would much rather be directing my bail out kick under pressure to these two deep,  rather than say T-Mac with Weids running into him at the hot zone with no quality smalls at their feet to gather any spills, then watching the opp smalls gather and run off on the counter connecting with my direct opponent on the sling shot over the top.  Much more confidence kicking a mung ball to those two than anyone else (outside of Melk) at this point.

And once our mids start gaining confidence that their bail outs are getting more results, their trust will grow and confidence in their own ability and game should follow.

Confidence is hard to find during tough times...but once the fire is lit it can quickly catch on.

Yes, the idea is good in theory , lets hope if tried it works. I'd like nothing better than to see Jeffy back in form.

10 hours ago, Deehumanizing said:

It may be better to see what we can get for him. He does not seem able to do the job we need him to do. I think he tries hard but not enough to hide his liabilities, unco and does not think on his feet. You are right though he is young and may be better in 4-5 years. The question is,  can we afford to carry him that long. I don't think he has shown enough to have a queue waiting to grab him. Perhaps the pies could use him, he could be a third tall there if he is able to get a game. I would swap him for just about any current pie forward in their seniors. 

why would we be trading out a guy who will be peaking in 5 years time? we wont be a premiership chance until about 5 years from now. trading him now would be idiotic.

4 hours ago, Superunknown said:

It’s always good to have different input and perspective 

 

As opposed to made up 'information' and screams to sack everyone? Sure.

Sam has averaged around 1.3 to 1.5 goals per game at VFL level.

His maximum for a season is 25 last year for ten games. One of those was a seven goal haul.

In 2017 he kicked 14 for the season of which 9 were kicked in two games.

He is far from a goal machine. I suspect Juice's figures were a lot better and..... well we all know what happened there

http://websites.sportstg.com/team_info.cgi?action=PSTATS&pID=197676903&client=1-3020-111714-294694-20320282

Sam's contract demands are reducing by tens of thousands with every round.

Not even worth $400,000 a year (then again, most on our list aren't either).

It’s starting to look like we replaced Chris Dawes with Chris Dawes. 

17 minutes ago, america de cali said:

It’s starting to look like we replaced Chris Dawes with Chris Dawes. 

Yes old iron hands is beginning to look good.

9 hours ago, Demon Dude said:

why would we be trading out a guy who will be peaking in 5 years time? we wont be a premiership chance until about 5 years from now. trading him now would be idiotic.

Is there any evidence that he has not peaked already? We may have seen all he is capable of and he would be a very expensive Casey player waiting for him to come good. He is not top forward of his draft class. The only thing he has done well is to be a Third tall who makes a hard match. We need a couple of good key positions forwards while we are waiting for him to possibly come good. It was an idiotic decision to draft him before Curnow, he was never a hard player and drafting him was misjudged potential talent speculation. We should see if there is any interest, he is not going to do the job we need anytime soon. How close to a flag were we last year and you think to wait another 5 years is not idiotic? He is part of the reason we have gone backward.

13 minutes ago, Deehumanizing said:

Is there any evidence that he has not peaked already? We may have seen all he is capable of and he would be a very expensive Casey player waiting for him to come good. He is not top forward of his draft class. The only thing he has done well is to be a Third tall who makes a hard match. We need a couple of good key positions forwards while we are waiting for him to possibly come good. It was an idiotic decision to draft him before Curnow, he was never a hard player and drafting him was misjudged potential talent speculation. We should see if there is any interest, he is not going to do the job we need anytime soon. How close to a flag were we last year and you think to wait another 5 years is not idiotic? He is part of the reason we have gone backward.

Well he was our 2nd tall in the finals last year and did a good job of it, not the 3rd tall. But anyway we were way off a flag last year. We got made to look stupid by WCE in a prelim. The whole club is out of form and fitness, not just Weid. You want him gone, well why don't we trade Tmac as well then, he's playing worse football than Weid is? We're playing shocking footy at the moment and are a long way off being anywhere near a premiership anytime soon. We need another bunch of kids to come through yet to replace the likes of Jones, Lewis, Jetta, Garlett and Hibberd who are all past their best. Trading a developing 21 year old KPF now would be premature. There's always going to be ups and downs with these developing kids, you just have to back them in to turn it around. And I reckon he will.

I'm used to seeing players step up in a contract year (Travis Johnstone is the classic example), but Weideman can't even look interested in his contract year. 

I have no issue with his ability to take a mark and kick a goal, but he still has zero intensity and hunger for the contest. 

I don't even think it an issue of physical development. Weideman just looks like the big kid who has cruised through his junior football on size and talent alone (probably similar to Jack Watts). Now he is no bigger and stronger than anyone else, and his work rate is atrocious compared with his opponents.

19 minutes ago, Demon Dude said:

You want him gone, well why don't we trade Tmac as well then, he's playing worse football than Weid is? 

Tmac has proved he can play well in a couple of positions and has played much better than Weid this year. Weid has proved he can string a couple of good games together but go missing most of the time and not be a reliable target. I did not say we should trade him but rather we should see what we could get for him. We need players who can have an impact now.

Playing injured or not? Not sure but looks proppy to me.

No other team feeds their forwards like we do. Bloody hopeless. If your not contributing around the ball get out and stop the rebounds.

Actually saw two passes that were up to standard against Tigers. Lot of work Best Ruckman in AFL going to waste.

Edited April 26, 20196 yr by willmoy
spelling

39 minutes ago, Deehumanizing said:

Tmac has proved he can play well in a couple of positions and has played much better than Weid this year. Weid has proved he can string a couple of good games together but go missing most of the time and not be a reliable target. I did not say we should trade him but rather we should see what we could get for him. We need players who can have an impact now.

They have both been poor. Weideman has  more effective disposals, more tackles and higher Supercoach score. Both have been underperforming, so I say TMac has not been better than Weid.

 

Player Statistics Comparison

Tom McDonald Name Sam Weideman Melbourne Demons Team Melbourne Demons Forward Position Forward 152 Career Games 26 North Ballarat Origin Eastern Ranges September 18, 1992 Date of Birth June 26, 1997 26yr 7mth Age 21yr 9mth 194cm Height 195cm 100kg Weight 97kg 2010 National Draft Last Drafted In 2015 National Draft Round 3, Pick #53 Last Draft Position Round 1, Pick #9 Melbourne Demons Last Drafted By Melbourne Demons 2019 Stats for Season 2019 6 Games 6 6.5 Kicks Per Game 5.3 5.7 Handballs Per Game 5.7 12.2 Disposals Per Game 11.0 3.8 Marks Per Game 3.7 0.3 Goals Per Game 0.8 0.8 Behinds Per Game 0.5 1.7 Tackles Per Game 1.8 2.0 Hitouts Per Game 1.3 1.2 Inside 50s Per Game 1.0 0.3 Goal Assists Per Game 0.3 0.5 Frees For Per Game 0.8 0.8 Frees Against Per Game 0.5 4.7 Contested Possessions Per Game 6.0 7.5 Uncontested Possessions Per Game 5.3 7.5 Effective Disposals Per Game 8.7 61.5% Disposal Efficiency % Per Game 79.1% 2.3 Clangers Per Game 1.2 0.8 Contested Marks Per Game 1.0 1.2 Marks Inside 50 Per Game 0.8 0.2 Clearances Per Game 0.7 2.2 Rebound 50s Per Game 0.3 4.5 One Percenters Per Game 1.0 0 Bounces Per Game 0 84.7 Time On Ground % Per Game 84.0 0 Centre Clearances Per Game 0.2 0.2 Stoppage Clearances Per Game 0.5 3.7 Score Involvements Per Game 3.7 144.5 Metres Gained Per Game 119.2 2.5 Turnovers Per Game 1.5 2.0 Intercepts Per Game 0.7 0.8 Tackles Inside 50 Per Game 0.7 $457,000 AFL Fantasy Price $383,000 51.8 AFL Fantasy Score Per Game 51.8 $360,200 Supercoach Price $330,600 56.2 Supercoach Score Per Game 64.8

Be interesting to see how the pies and cats play out with this

1 hour ago, ManDee said:

They have both been poor. Weideman has  more effective disposals, more tackles and higher Supercoach score. Both have been underperforming, so I say TMac has not been better than Weid.

 

Player Statistics Comparison

Tom McDonald Name Sam Weideman Melbourne Demons Team Melbourne Demons Forward Position Forward 152 Career Games 26 North Ballarat Origin Eastern Ranges September 18, 1992 Date of Birth June 26, 1997 26yr 7mth Age 21yr 9mth 194cm Height 195cm 100kg Weight 97kg 2010 National Draft Last Drafted In 2015 National Draft Round 3, Pick #53 Last Draft Position Round 1, Pick #9 Melbourne Demons Last Drafted By Melbourne Demons 2019 Stats for Season 2019 6 Games 6 6.5 Kicks Per Game 5.3 5.7 Handballs Per Game 5.7 12.2 Disposals Per Game 11.0 3.8 Marks Per Game 3.7 0.3 Goals Per Game 0.8 0.8 Behinds Per Game 0.5 1.7 Tackles Per Game 1.8 2.0 Hitouts Per Game 1.3 1.2 Inside 50s Per Game 1.0 0.3 Goal Assists Per Game 0.3 0.5 Frees For Per Game 0.8 0.8 Frees Against Per Game 0.5 4.7 Contested Possessions Per Game 6.0 7.5 Uncontested Possessions Per Game 5.3 7.5 Effective Disposals Per Game 8.7 61.5% Disposal Efficiency % Per Game 79.1% 2.3 Clangers Per Game 1.2 0.8 Contested Marks Per Game 1.0 1.2 Marks Inside 50 Per Game 0.8 0.2 Clearances Per Game 0.7 2.2 Rebound 50s Per Game 0.3 4.5 One Percenters Per Game 1.0 0 Bounces Per Game 0 84.7 Time On Ground % Per Game 84.0 0 Centre Clearances Per Game 0.2 0.2 Stoppage Clearances Per Game 0.5 3.7 Score Involvements Per Game 3.7 144.5 Metres Gained Per Game 119.2 2.5 Turnovers Per Game 1.5 2.0 Intercepts Per Game 0.7 0.8 Tackles Inside 50 Per Game 0.7 $457,000 AFL Fantasy Price $383,000 51.8 AFL Fantasy Score Per Game 51.8 $360,200 Supercoach Price $330,600 56.2 Supercoach Score Per Game 64.8

Very shallow stats you are quoting. Tom has been in the top ten of The Demons best and fairest for nearly every year of his career. Sam is yet to do that and I don't think he ever will. Do you really think Sam has been more effective than Tom? Tom was drafted at 53 and has performed above his draft potential. Sam was drafted at 9th pick and has performed at much less than his draft potential. I am sure that we would get much more for Tom in a trade than Sam because over a number of years Tom has proved his performance and versatility. Sam has played 26 games and not proved a career yet. 

16 hours ago, dimmy said:

Play Dec Keilty and tSmith up front...  with a heap of pace around them.

Must be part of Plan B - but it makes sense. Surely we have a Plan B?

3 hours ago, Deehumanizing said:

Tmac has proved he can play well in a couple of positions and has played much better than Weid this year. Weid has proved he can string a couple of good games together but go missing most of the time and not be a reliable target. I did not say we should trade him but rather we should see what we could get for him. We need players who can have an impact now.

 

51 minutes ago, Deehumanizing said:

Very shallow stats you are quoting. Tom has been in the top ten of The Demons best and fairest for nearly every year of his career. Sam is yet to do that and I don't think he ever will. Do you really think Sam has been more effective than Tom? Tom was drafted at 53 and has performed above his draft potential. Sam was drafted at 9th pick and has performed at much less than his draft potential. I am sure that we would get much more for Tom in a trade than Sam because over a number of years Tom has proved his performance and versatility. Sam has played 26 games and not proved a career yet. 

You said this year and I showed stats for this year. 

This year they have both been poor. 

Let's compare at the same age.

 

Player Statistics Comparison

Sam Weideman Name Tom McDonald Melbourne Demons Team Melbourne Demons Forward Position Forward 26 Career Games 152 Eastern Ranges Origin North Ballarat June 26, 1997 Date of Birth September 18, 1992 21yr 9mth Age Turned 22 in 2014 195cm Height 194cm 97kg Weight 100kg 2015 National Draft Last Drafted In 2010 National Draft Round 1, Pick #9 Last Draft Position Round 3, Pick #53 Melbourne Demons Last Drafted By Melbourne Demons 2019 Stats for Season 2014 6 Games 21 5.3 Kicks Per Game 9.3 5.7 Handballs Per Game 5.6 11.0 Disposals Per Game 14.9 3.7 Marks Per Game 4.8 0.8 Goals Per Game 0.1 0.5 Behinds Per Game 0 1.8 Tackles Per Game 1.7 1.3 Hitouts Per Game 0 1.0 Inside 50s Per Game 0.3 0.3 Goal Assists Per Game 0 0.8 Frees For Per Game 0.4 0.5 Frees Against Per Game 0.6 6.0 Contested Possessions Per Game 4.2 5.3 Uncontested Possessions Per Game 10.5 8.7 Effective Disposals Per Game 10.9 79.1% Disposal Efficiency % Per Game 73.2% 1.2 Clangers Per Game 2.5 1.0 Contested Marks Per Game 0.5 0.8 Marks Inside 50 Per Game 0.1 0.7 Clearances Per Game 0.2

 

13 minutes ago, ManDee said:

 

You said this year and I showed stats for this year. 

This year they have both been poor. 

Let's compare at the same age.

 

Player Statistics Comparison

Sam Weideman Name Tom McDonald Melbourne Demons Team Melbourne Demons Forward Position Forward 26 Career Games 152 Eastern Ranges Origin North Ballarat June 26, 1997 Date of Birth September 18, 1992 21yr 9mth Age Turned 22 in 2014 195cm Height 194cm 97kg Weight 100kg 2015 National Draft Last Drafted In 2010 National Draft Round 1, Pick #9 Last Draft Position Round 3, Pick #53 Melbourne Demons Last Drafted By Melbourne Demons 2019 Stats for Season 2014 6 Games 21 5.3 Kicks Per Game 9.3 5.7 Handballs Per Game 5.6 11.0 Disposals Per Game 14.9 3.7 Marks Per Game 4.8 0.8 Goals Per Game 0.1 0.5 Behinds Per Game 0 1.8 Tackles Per Game 1.7 1.3 Hitouts Per Game 0 1.0 Inside 50s Per Game 0.3 0.3 Goal Assists Per Game 0 0.8 Frees For Per Game 0.4 0.5 Frees Against Per Game 0.6 6.0 Contested Possessions Per Game 4.2 5.3 Uncontested Possessions Per Game 10.5 8.7 Effective Disposals Per Game 10.9 79.1% Disposal Efficiency % Per Game 73.2% 1.2 Clangers Per Game 2.5 1.0 Contested Marks Per Game 0.5 0.8 Marks Inside 50 Per Game 0.1 0.7 Clearances Per Game 0.2

 

Still shallow because Tom has the versatility and can play a few positions. Sam has not convinced that he can play one. So far Sam has been a liability Tom moved behind the ball and looked much better. It is much easier to play good defense, it's just that this team has forgotten what defense looks like. Sam panics when forward would you want to put him down back?

1 minute ago, Deehumanizing said:

Still shallow because Tom has the versatility and can play a few positions. Sam has not convinced that he can play one. So far Sam has been a liability Tom moved behind the ball and looked much better. It is much easier to play good defense, it's just that this team has forgotten what defense looks like. Sam panics when forward would you want to put him down back?

Thats where Tommy Mc started, in defence. And you say "it is much easier to play good defense" You may also note that when switched back to defence against Richmond he had his best stats for the season. As a forward this year both have been poor.

Your argument continues to be contradictory, so that is all for me.