Training - Wednesday 16th January, 2019

[What 18,810]

4 minutes ago, CBDees said:

Looks like Gawn is not getting it all his own way! ?

Preuss is a monster.  Would be great if they could co exist in the same team.

[Satyriconhome 10,690]

Preuss has Gawn for strength, but Max has him in tap work and aerobic capacity, working with and against each other will benefit both

With Bradtke learning from both as well, with Stafford coaching all three 

They also had Keilty keeping his hand in late in the session

Edited January 16, 2019 by Satyriconhome

[hemingway 7,615]

7 minutes ago, ProDee said:

More on ACLs, which I found interesting.

It's from Demonland's own star resident expert in these types of things @Webber - posted some time ago:

"There is no greater incidence of hamstring injuries post ACL reconstruction where the hamstring is used as the graft. The hamstring 'group' (3 muscles) compensate as a collective to take over the progressive loads imposed during rehab. The surgery is a very elegant and efficient process. The graft length is computer calibrated to be anatomically correct, and anchored to the bones top and bottom of the knee (femur and tibia). That graft is initially dead tissue, but over the period of 5 to 6 months, the blood supply re-establishes through the bony attachments, such that it becomes fully vascular, and therefore a self-regenerating tissue. It is 'living' and able to absorb the stresses applied. Fully competitive, full speed multidirectional sport is allowed at 9 months. At the elite level, there are seldom variations to this timeline, and the outcome is as if the ACL had never been damaged."

Lots of stuff on the net also, including the Mayo Clinic that summarizes the thing pretty well. 9 months seems to be agreed recovery time although the Mayo Clinic doco states that it may up to 12 months before the athlete can return to his/her chosen sport.

The issue for Lever will not be his recovery and return to the game but how to avoid it happening again, given match conditions and his own game style. His intercept game, flying from one side, changing direction, taking off and landing on one leg etc may make him more susceptible than others.

Does he return and play as if nothing has happened or does he try and change the way he plays? Hard to see the latter happening although Schwartz dramatically changed the way he played but he was a forward and he relied on his bulk to make position. Also the game was much slower

 

[FarNorthernD 5,861]

1 hour ago, Satyriconhome said:

 

 Well for a tall Preuss is coming into the right age bracket - 24 June next year - and he will have been training against the best in the business for 6 months by the time rnd 1 rolls by.

For him to be effective and give us an advantage playing two rucks, aside from his rucking skills, he is going to need to use his height and be able to mark above his head. If he can he will make it bloody difficult for opposition sides. 

But apart from all that he is just a freaky sized humongous human being. It will be very fun watching him run around in the red and blue 

 

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,687]

Looking at these pictures, the best thing about having Preuss at Melbourne is that Max doesn't have to compete against him in a match.

[Gator 17,276]

Seemingly, unlike others I'd rather Preuss in the VFL until he's (hopefully not) needed.

I suspect they'll experiment with the two rucks early in the season and I also expect it will be a short one.  But it's great having a backup.

[chook fowler 19,444]

2 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

 

Can’t understand the feeling that Trac is over weight on the basis of these photos. I’m very hopeful he will have a big year. The criticism is a bit harsh I think. Last year wasn’t all that bad either - he had a lot of important score involvements if you look back on the highlight reel.

[DeeZee 7,361]

A Gawn , Preuss, Ruck,forward pocket combination would be awfully hard to match up on for the opposition 

[Sydee 4,379]

9 minutes ago, DeeZee said:

A Gawn , Preuss, Ruck,forward pocket combination would be awfully hard to match up on for the opposition 

Only if Preuss can actually play the game

I think there are quite a few people on here getting carried away with a guy that didn't manage a game for a team that finished below us on the table and did not have one the best ruckman in the competition 

Like everyone else I really hope he contributes meaningfully to the team and makes us better - however playing him alongside TMac and Weid in the same forward 50 looks too big and slow for mine and I cant see any prospect of him surpassing those guys as a first pick tall forward

Being big means nothing if you are not mobile enough and do not possess the skills and knowledge of the game

Definitely has some potential but the question is can he rise to the next level  

[DeeZee 7,361]

7 minutes ago, Sydee said:

Only if Preuss can actually play the game

I think there are quite a few people on here getting carried away with a guy that didn't manage a game for a team that finished below us on the table and did not have one the best ruckman in the competition 

Like everyone else I really hope he contributes meaningfully to the team and makes us better - however playing him alongside TMac and Weid in the same forward 50 looks too big and slow for mine and I cant see any prospect of him surpassing those guys as a first pick tall forward

Being big means nothing if you are not mobile enough and do not possess the skills and knowledge of the game

Definitely has some potential but the question is can he rise to the next level  

I’ll back the recruiters in ,to have gone after someone that can play the game.

[Brownie 5,969]

34 minutes ago, Sydee said:

Only if Preuss can actually play the game

I think there are quite a few people on here getting carried away with a guy that didn't manage a game for a team that finished below us on the table and did not have one the best ruckman in the competition 

Like everyone else I really hope he contributes meaningfully to the team and makes us better - however playing him alongside TMac and Weid in the same forward 50 looks too big and slow for mine and I cant see any prospect of him surpassing those guys as a first pick tall forward

Being big means nothing if you are not mobile enough and do not possess the skills and knowledge of the game

Definitely has some potential but the question is can he rise to the next level  

It's an interesting question. You could see the forward line packed with talls working for West Coast last year.

Maybe we're trying to replicate that.

Should be interesting to see how we use them together.

[Moonshadow 17,675]

2 hours ago, ProDee said:

More on ACLs, which I found interesting.

It's from Demonland's own star resident expert in these types of things @Webber - posted some time ago:

"There is no greater incidence of hamstring injuries post ACL reconstruction where the hamstring is used as the graft. The hamstring 'group' (3 muscles) compensate as a collective to take over the progressive loads imposed during rehab. The surgery is a very elegant and efficient process. The graft length is computer calibrated to be anatomically correct, and anchored to the bones top and bottom of the knee (femur and tibia). That graft is initially dead tissue, but over the period of 5 to 6 months, the blood supply re-establishes through the bony attachments, such that it becomes fully vascular, and therefore a self-regenerating tissue. It is 'living' and able to absorb the stresses applied. Fully competitive, full speed multidirectional sport is allowed at 9 months. At the elite level, there are seldom variations to this timeline, and the outcome is as if the ACL had never been damaged."

Great info from Webber.

I do recall somewhere Lever commenting on his first reco as a teenager and how much more intensive the care and rehab has been this time around.

[Demon Disciple 12,064]

12 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

I do recall somewhere Lever commenting on his first reco as a teenager and how much more intensive the care and rehab has been this time around.

Hopefully any leftover side-effect weaknesses from the first knee op have been mitigated as a result of recovering from his second knee op in a professional environment.

[Its Time for Another 4,192]

3 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

Preuss has Gawn for strength, but Max has him in tap work and aerobic capacity, working with and against each other will benefit both

Has anyone noticed if Preuss's aerobic capacity has improved relative to Gawny since he's arrived. I'm sure this will be a focus and why he's doing so much running with Gawny.

2 hours ago, ProDee said:

Seemingly, unlike others I'd rather Preuss in the VFL until he's (hopefully not) needed.

I suspect they'll experiment with the two rucks early in the season and I also expect it will be a short one.  But it's great having a backup.

You might be right but I really hope you're wrong.

Preuss's recruitment for me was one of the more interesting in quite a while for two reasons. Firstly I was sure it meant Hogan was out the door. Secondly I reckon it means we will follow the two Grand Finalists and have two key forwards and a resting ruckman as a forward. They proved it isn't too top heavy. It's amazing how things have changed so quickly from the Tigers 2017 Premiership which everyone thought showed that teams would only have one key forward.  You couldn't say Preuss is less mobile than Cox and I would say Vardy as well. Logically his choice to come to the Dees makes no sense if he was told you're only going to get a game if Gawn gets injured. I think they are going to play him in that Cox/Vardy role and the ruck rule changes mean the days of players like Harmes and Grigg playing in the ruck are over. You are going to have to have a genuine second ruck. 

[Demonland 71,489]

 

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,482]

3 hours ago, chook fowler said:

Can’t understand the feeling that Trac is over weight on the basis of these photos. I’m very hopeful he will have a big year. The criticism is a bit harsh I think. Last year wasn’t all that bad either - he had a lot of important score involvements if you look back on the highlight reel.

I wouldn’t say he’s ‘overweight’ as in out condition.  I would say I think he’d be more value if he lost some of his bulk.  His current build is reminiscent of a young Jobe Watson of Josh Kennedy (syd); they became elite midfielders when they lost the extra ‘bulk’. 

[Earl Hood 6,082]

1 hour ago, It's Time said:

Has anyone noticed if Preuss's aerobic capacity has improved relative to Gawny since he's arrived. I'm sure this will be a focus and why he's doing so much running with Gawny.

You might be right but I really hope you're wrong.

Preuss's recruitment for me was one of the more interesting in quite a while for two reasons. Firstly I was sure it meant Hogan was out the door. Secondly I reckon it means we will follow the two Grand Finalists and have two key forwards and a resting ruckman as a forward. They proved it isn't too top heavy. It's amazing how things have changed so quickly from the Tigers 2017 Premiership which everyone thought showed that teams would only have one key forward.  You couldn't say Preuss is less mobile than Cox and I would say Vardy as well. Logically his choice to come to the Dees makes no sense if he was told you're only going to get a game if Gawn gets injured. I think they are going to play him in that Cox/Vardy role and the ruck rule changes mean the days of players like Harmes and Grigg playing in the ruck are over. You are going to have to have a genuine second ruck. 

Spot on, as I have said before I hope we can construct a game plan that includes Preuss and AVB for the potential hurt factor that great sides always have. Preuss at training seems to have it, size, mobility, hand-eye coordination, reasonable speed. Now those physical attributes don’t guarantee success on game day  but fingers crossed.

And you are right the top heavy theory was blown away by WC this year with 2 big ruckman, a lumbering McGovern down back and J Kennedy up forward. Big men all over the field and they won a premiership by keeping the ball in the air as much as possible, with nimble smalls ready to pounce on a loose ball. 

Edited January 16, 2019 by Earl Hood

[Satyriconhome 10,690]

39 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

I wouldn’t say he’s ‘overweight’ as in out condition.  I would say I think he’d be more value if he lost some of his bulk.  His current build is reminiscent of a young Jobe Watson of Josh Kennedy (syd); they became elite midfielders when they lost the extra ‘bulk’. 

He is the 'size because obviously the fitness and medical staff have no issue with it

His agility and speed was fine today when doing the 2 on 2 tackling

I chatted to him at the end of the session, he was minus his top, he is in great shape

Edited January 16, 2019 by Satyriconhome

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,482]

20 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

He is the 'size because obviously the fitness and medical staff have no issue with it

His agility and speed was fine today when doing the 2 on 2 tackling

I chatted to him at the end of the session, he was minus his top, he is in great shape

I doubt they would say that he is perfect and everything they could ever hope he could be.  If you asked the fitness team if they would like him to have the aerobic capabilities of Josh Kennedy, I think they’d say ‘Yes please.’

Trac is a gun and I adore him; but he’s not perfect... yet.

[MrMoose 262]

THANKS for the info and pics Satyriconhome - VERY much appreciated!

[Satyriconhome 10,690]

1 hour ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

I doubt they would say that he is perfect and everything they could ever hope he could be.  If you asked the fitness team if they would like him to have the aerobic capabilities of Josh Kennedy, I think they’d say ‘Yes please.’

Trac is a gun and I adore him; but he’s not perfect... yet.

At least 10% of Josh Kennedy is like Selwood, heart

Trac is never going to an aerobic beast, he is at the playing weight tne club thinks he should be

He has been doing heaps of running as part of his rehab

[DeeSpencer 25,447]

5 hours ago, It's Time said:

Has anyone noticed if Preuss's aerobic capacity has improved relative to Gawny since he's arrived. I'm sure this will be a focus and why he's doing so much running with Gawny.

You might be right but I really hope you're wrong.

Preuss's recruitment for me was one of the more interesting in quite a while for two reasons. Firstly I was sure it meant Hogan was out the door. Secondly I reckon it means we will follow the two Grand Finalists and have two key forwards and a resting ruckman as a forward. They proved it isn't too top heavy. It's amazing how things have changed so quickly from the Tigers 2017 Premiership which everyone thought showed that teams would only have one key forward.  You couldn't say Preuss is less mobile than Cox and I would say Vardy as well. Logically his choice to come to the Dees makes no sense if he was told you're only going to get a game if Gawn gets injured. I think they are going to play him in that Cox/Vardy role and the ruck rule changes mean the days of players like Harmes and Grigg playing in the ruck are over. You are going to have to have a genuine second ruck. 

Not sure about a lot of that.

The Pies don't have 2 key forwards and a resting ruck. De Goey is a very undersized full forward, a throw back to when full forwards were a thing. Mihocek is a hard working competitor who's just key position sized. Cox is really a forward in a ruckmans body. He leaps at the ball and can lead like a forward. The 3 options work well together - a super tall, a medium and a small marking option. Plus Stephenson as a zippy leading player.

The Eagles forward line works for a lot of reasons, a large part of which is that they left Vardy and Lycett on the bench for a lot of the grand final! That puts a toll on their mids and flankers to cover rotations but they can do that because they have a lot of experienced players. We're slowly getting older but we'd be mad to waste rotations when our midfield was mainly kids. The other big reason it works is because Josh Kennedy is a tackling/pressure machine as is Darling who is very mobile and short for a 2nd key forward. They also have great pressure medium/small players.

The gains of covering Max with a proper ruck for 20-25% of the game (or 5-7 minutes in the middle of each quarter) have to weighed against the losses in our forward line. I don't think a forward line with 2 genuine tall marking options in  T Mc and  Weid as well as  a number of medium sized players - Melksham, Petracca and Hannan/Vanders/Harmes/Oliver/Fritsch is going to work with a 200cm+ lump in the way. The final thing to consider is that Weid in the ruck seemed to rejuvenate him as a player. He might not win a lot of taps but he follows up and tackles well, links up in general play somewhat like a midfielder and gets involved in the game.

[Go Dees!! 108]

If Gawny has the aerobic capacity let him rest in the forward line for 5 to 7 minutes per quarter while big Preussy comes in off the bench to ruck around the ground. 

We know Gawny can mark overhead, so imagine trying to cover TMc, Weid & Gawny for the latter few minutes of any quarter. Most opposition backlines will struggle to cope!

[Damo 3,344]

If I was going to guess who is going to have an injury just before the end of Pre-season I would pick the big Pruess. I hope they start tapering him off but keep him fresh soon. I have no inside info BTW. He just looks like he is going way too hard early daws.

 

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

10 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

Trac is never going to an aerobic beast,

A common misunderstanding. 

One's work ethic has a direct correlation to their aerobic capacity (or any fitness component for that matter). 

Guys like Viney and Jones have become some of our strongest runners. Players that weren't considered elite runners before they came to the club, but are now through sheer determination and will. So it's actually completely between the ears. 

You're right that Trac may never become an aerobic beast. But not for the reasons you think. 

Trac could become anything if he adopted the same mindset as someone like Viney. 

I'm sure everyone has heard about the story of Ablett before he reached greatness..

Edited January 16, 2019 by stevethemanjordan