Farewell Jesse Hogan

[demon191919 60]

3 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Due to Olisik's incorrect assertions it seems I also have to post this here.

 A few things...

 I doubt you know that every one of those goals was kicked on May.  In fact, I know you don't, because Kennedy kicked 4 on him and Riewoldt 6.  And key defenders are only as good as team structures and the quality of their midfield.

 You think May is slow when speed is one of his biggest strengths.  This clearly tells me you have no clue about the player you're criticising.

The following is from a recent article:

In 2016 he (May) was the third-best defender in the competition behind Alex Rance and ahead of Jeremy McGovern, losing just 14 of 71 one-on-ones for the entire year.

This season Gold Coast haemorrhaged inside 50s, giving up five more than the next-worst side.

The offensive stuff is what elevates him above the dime-a-dozen stoppers.

This year he averaged 17.4 disposals (second-most for key defenders), 334 metres gained (second most for key defenders) as well 7.6 intercept possessions, three intercept marks and 6.8 spoils (all above average).

Put him into an good side with quality players around him and you have a weapon at full back.

They (Melbourne) get Jake Lever back at some stage and improved their defensive mix late, but still were the fourth-easiest side to score against across the entire season.

Slot him in alongside Lever and Max Gawn becomes an offensive threat again instead of being forced to play as a seventh defender at times as well as a ruckman.

To sum up, Olisik, you're welcome to your opinion, but it's hopelessly misinformed.

Finally! I find it truly bizarre that certain people are rating May based on how many goals were kicked on him this year. He's playing for the worst (or second worst arguably) team in the league that looks like it has absolutely no structure most of the time.

[Sir Why You Little 37,033]

11 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

Because we are in a premiership window and May adds A LOT to our team balence.

IMO we are closer to a flag with May in our team than Hogan

I just don’t rate May that highly. 

Hope i am wrong...

[beelzebub 23,350]

18 minutes ago, Pates said:

I guess my ultimate thing is that I just don’t rate May as highly as a lot of others seem to. He’s at the top end of our age range and has been good but hardly an out an out star. I truly question whether bringing him in rounds out our team, particularly as at the other end Weiderman is still unproven. 

May would be a good get, nothing more. Jesse is a proven forward with limitless potential, I would take him any day of the week over May wherever we played him. 

A big problem I think in all of this is folk isolate a player and then somehow attempt a valuation.

I see it differently.. Hogan is a forward...May is a back.  I think we can all at least agree upon that.

Here's where I diverge from the groupthink model.   I see it as a comparison of effects.

What does May added to our back arc do as compared Hogan being in the front arc ?

Add May to Lever, Hibberd , Jetta, Oscar  and say Salem...  thats formidable...take out May...not so much...as dynamic reverts back to before...somewhat problematic

Hogan in the fwd 50 with Tmac , Milkshake, Trac...any of Spargo... VDB  etc etc...is also quite effective.

Take out Hogan...put in Weed...or someone else..its still reasonably effective, and possibly not so mono-centric in nature  of attack.

So for mine the impact of May in far outweighs Hogan leaving

Have a suspicion out FD sees it similarly.

[Dockett 32 1,239]

Have thought from day 1 that Freo are desperate to get Hogan.

Smoke screens galore to drive down a proper price.

[bluey 1,102]

Losing Hogan frees up a lot of cap space, if it’s true he’s after a million a year, don’t know what May is on, maybe a bit more than half that, so it’s not just Pick 5 & 23.

 

 

 

[ManDee 7,134]

5 minutes ago, Dockett 32 said:

Have thought from day 1 that Freo are desperate to get Hogan.

Smoke screens galore to drive down a proper price.

Forget smoke screens Freo have been lying. They are liars and not to be trusted. They have been spreading lies regardless of cost to reputations of others. For the life of me I cannot understand why Hogan wants to go there, unless there is something we don't know. 

[sue 9,102]

9 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

A big problem I think in all of this is folk isolate a player and then somehow attempt a valuation.

I see it differently.. Hogan is a forward...May is a back.  I think we can all at least agree upon that.

Here's where I diverge from the groupthink model.   I see it as a comparison of effects.

What does May added to our back arc do as compared Hogan being in the front arc ?

Add May to Lever, Hibberd , Jetta, Oscar  and say Salem...  thats formidable...take out May...not so much...as dynamic reverts back to before...somewhat problematic

Hogan in the fwd 50 with Tmac , Milkshake, Trac...any of Spargo... VDB  etc etc...is also quite effective.

Take out Hogan...put in Weed...or someone else..its still reasonably effective, and possibly not so mono-centric in nature  of attack.

So for mine the impact of May in far outweighs Hogan leaving

Have a suspicion out FD sees it similarly.

I'd agree with all that if I wasn't so doubtful about Weid since has yet to prove himself - one game does not a champion make.  (And I fear when he does, Eddie will move heaven and earth to get him to C'wood.)

[hells bells 2,023]

2 minutes ago, ManDee said:

Forget smoke screens Freo have been lying. They are liars and not to be trusted. They have been spreading lies regardless of cost to reputations of others. 

This is what is being said in the industry.  I have it from a very reliable source (list manager at another club).

[Diamond_Jim 12,568]

5 minutes ago, bluey said:

Losing Hogan frees up a lot of cap space, if it’s true he’s after a million a year, don’t know what May is on, maybe a bit more than half that, so it’s not just Pick 5 & 23.

 

 

 

May is on a reported $900k so not a great difference

[deespicable me 1,486]

8 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

A big problem I think in all of this is folk isolate a player and then somehow attempt a valuation.

I see it differently.. Hogan is a forward...May is a back.  I think we can all at least agree upon that.

Here's where I diverge from the groupthink model.   I see it as a comparison of effects.

What does May added to our back arc do as compared Hogan being in the front arc ?

Add May to Lever, Hibberd , Jetta, Oscar  and say Salem...  thats formidable...take out May...not so much...as dynamic reverts back to before...somewhat problematic

Hogan in the fwd 50 with Tmac , Milkshake, Trac...any of Spargo... VDB  etc etc...is also quite effective.

Take out Hogan...put in Weed...or someone else..its still reasonably effective, and possibly not so mono-centric in nature  of attack.

So for mine the impact of May in far outweighs Hogan leaving

Have a suspicion out FD sees it similarly.

Yeah sure, all this is accepted by most, they see the Hogan out May in scenario loud and clear.

What people aren't so sure about is the trading out of a potential champion of the game, a Brereton or a Carey for a bloke who has shown his full potential and sure we can build a defence around him but he won't finish his career as a champ of the game.

Also sure you have to give up something significant to get something that you need but look at Richmond getting in Lynch. We give up two first round picks for Lever, I think we just want very fair at worst compensation for Hogan, if not overs. Or don't do the bl@@dy trade!

[daisycutter 29,613]

37 minutes ago, hells bells said:

This is what is being said in the industry.  I have it from a very reliable source (list manager at another club).

maybe, but all you have is a reliable source of a rumour forwarder. that is not proof of the rumour itself necessarily

Edited October 15, 2018 by daisycutter

[John Demonic 5,790]

12 minutes ago, ManDee said:

Forget smoke screens Freo have been lying. They are liars and not to be trusted. They have been spreading lies regardless of cost to reputations of others. For the life of me I cannot understand why Hogan wants to go there, unless there is something we don't know. 

 

8 minutes ago, hells bells said:

This is what is being said in the industry.  I have it from a very reliable source (list manager at another club).

It's [censored]. The rumours been posted on reddit for a week, been an exhausting gig debating freo fans who are comparing it to a Harley Bennell situation. I don't know why i've bothered given how hot headed i've felt. Maybe some sense of duty to try and shift the narrative away from the [censored] in one corner of the football world. It's an easy life in here. I bet there are a few demonlanders on bigfooty fighting the good fight. Must be a [censored] show over there. Rant over.

Edited October 15, 2018 by johndemonic

[TGR 1,367]

3 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

May is on a reported $900k so not a great difference

Give me May's body language any day of the week.  Dustin Fletcher and SOS would have struggled playing FB for Gold Coast.  I am more bullish on May than Lever to be honest.

As for Hogan, Melbourne supporters have salivated over him for years.  His good is very good, but his bad is bad.  We don't need a sulk playing deep; and we need instant defensive pressure when things aren't going his way.  Hogan will be great for Freo and he will get there.

 

 

 

Freo have played us well.  They have reduced our expectations (and Hogans) on what we should get for him (and what $$ he should be on).  If only Peter Bell was here orchestrating the Lever deal, when we blinked and paid overs; when we actually didn't have to.

 

 

 

 

 

[Leoncelli_36 2,264]

wait, so we afre now settling for pick 5 and 23 which goes to the Suns for May and KK respectively. Am I reading this right? I hope I am not. KK is similar to Kent in his output in recent years. We took a pick in the 60s for Kent and now we are using Pick 23 on KK? Surely that is not what I am reading. Surely a later pick goes to GCS for KK. Can someone update me on the state of play. I can't be bothered reading over the last 20 pages. 

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

If we get a top five pick for Hogan I'd prefer to use it in the draft than use it on May.

Edited October 15, 2018 by Clint Bizkit

[old55 23,548]

16 minutes ago, johndemonic said:

 

It's [censored]. The rumours been posted on reddit for a week, been an exhausting gig debating freo fans who are comparing it to a Harley Bennell situation. I don't know why i've bothered given how hot headed i've felt. Maybe some sense of duty to try and shift the narrative away from the [censored] in one corner of the football world. It's an easy life in here. I bet there are a few demonlanders on bigfooty fighting the good fight. Must be a [censored] show over there. Rant over.

I gave up on BigFooty tbh

[TRIGON 4,783]

5 minutes ago, TGR said:

Give me May's body language any day of the week.  Dustin Fletcher and SOS would have struggled playing FB for Gold Coast.  I am more bullish on May than Lever to be honest.

As for Hogan, Melbourne supporters

Freo have played us well.  They have reduced our expectations (and Hogans) on what we should get for him (and what $$ he should be on).  If only Peter Bell was here orchestrating the Lever deal, when we blinked and paid overs; when we actually didn't have to.

 

 

 

 

 

Who is ‘us’? The media? The fans?

We’re not that relevant. Only the opinions and mindset of our Football Department really matters.

 

[TheoX 1,222]

Surely we won't trade him for 5 and 23, that's way below what we paid for him when he was unproven. May is 27 and worth nowhere near pick 5. If those go down we are the shittest negotiators in the league.

Edited October 15, 2018 by TheoX

[Gator 17,332]

1 minute ago, TheoX said:

Surely we won't trade him for 5 and 23, that's way below what we paid for him when he was unproven. May is 27 and worth nowhere near pick 5.

No, it's not.  Pick 5 and 23 is BETTER than what we paid for him.

We gave up one first rounder - pick 3.

Our pick 13 then slid to pick 20.

[ManDee 7,134]

3 minutes ago, TheoX said:

Surely we won't trade him for 5 and 23, that's way below what we paid for him when he was unproven. May is 27 and worth nowhere near pick 5. If those go down we are the shittest negotiators in the league.

And if we win the flag geniuses.

[whatwhat say what 22,744]

6 minutes ago, TheoX said:

Surely we won't trade him for 5 and 23, that's way below what we paid for him when he was unproven. May is 27 and worth nowhere near pick 5.

it's just bizarre, isn't it

hogan keeps getting talked down and ryan burton keeps getting talked up; meanwhile hawks are giving up a pick in the mid-50s for $cully

i find the whole thing such a net loss

as far as i'm concerned, the bigger winner out of the trade - neale / hogan / may / pick 5 - is freo, as they get hogan

when it comes to transcendent talents, he's the standout of the three existing players

Edited October 15, 2018 by whatwhatsaywhat

[old55 23,548]

5 minutes ago, TheoX said:

Surely we won't trade him for 5 and 23, that's way below what we paid for him when he was unproven. May is 27 and worth nowhere near pick 5. If those go down we are the shittest negotiators in the league.

Yes but GC will get pick 2 for him next year if they block the trade and force him into FA.  That will be guiding their view of market value.

[Ted Lasso 19,512]

8 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

If we get a top five pick for Hogan I'd prefer to use it in the draft than use it on May.

Who do you like in the draft Clint? Young smith or one of the king brothers?

[dl4e 5,851]

11 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

If we get a top five pick for Hogan I'd prefer to use it in the draft than use it on May.

Exactly. They say this draft is "super" up until 7. Well what might you get with pick 5 ?

I know we all have different opinions and that is fine but for the life of me what is basically becoming a straight swap from Hogan to May is just plain out bloody stupid.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

I'll be a little disappointed if the deal for May is just Pick 5, but I think that's because we've been conditioned to place too much emphasis on draft picks over the years.  I'd rather Hogan stay, but I think many are underselling Steven May's value to our club and our structures moving forward.

Where did we struggle this year?  Down back.  May will help to remedy this, and with the return of Jake Lever, will form a 1-2 punch that will be the envy of the competition.  

I think the addition of May will go further in helping us win a flag, and for that reason I'll put any disappointment aside and look at what May brings to our club, which will be plenty.