The Elephant in the Room

[jnrmac 20,180]

14 minutes ago, deegirl said:

My ten cents. I don't give a stuff about the camp but I do care the leadership team went to the AFLPA rather than the coaches to raise their concerns.  It made the playing group look like they couldn't hack pressure.

And when not being able to hack the pressure becomes a common theme on field, you look at saying no to the camp and question whether they've done all they could to prepare themselves. 

Should have been handled in house. The fact it wasn't is an indictment on Goodwin the management consultant and the leaders. He is not a leader of men.

 

[Wolfturdo 123]

6 minutes ago, deebug said:

We won 12 flags with out having to go on some stupid camp.

The saints did some type of camp a few years back, where their first year players deprived of sleep for hours, and we all know how well their going at the moment.

That’s crap 

[darkhorse72 1,925]

 

2 hours ago, Wolfturdo said:

Oh FFS that is absolute bull [censored]. Why on earth could the coaches have considered doing this camp if it was going to have zero impact on our season? Do you think they were just bored and thought it might be a cool way to spend the summer? If it wasn’t going to have an impact then they should have just spent the entire pre season doing an ‘everyday actions’ camp. ‘Hey mate are you doing your everyday actions yet? I’m not sure are you?” 

For gods sake do you think we buy that? That’s total and square bull [censored]. 

Culture is not created in short term camps. No, I don't think they do it for fun, but on my experience with organisations both professional and sporting their impact is minimal and short term.  But I don't think its part of a long term plan, otherwise the camps would be booked as a sequence years in advance.  There are far better ways to improve our players. 

[Queanbeyan Demon 6,864]

50 minutes ago, Wolfturdo said:

That’s crap 

With one exception, the whole thread is crap . . . 

Ill-informed opinions and a*r* holes - lots in common.

[Wolfturdo 123]

14 minutes ago, Darkhorse72 said:

 

Culture is not created in short term camps. No, I don't think they do it for fun, but on my experience with organisations both professional and sporting their impact is minimal and short term.  But I don't think its part of a long term plan, otherwise the camps would be booked as a sequence years in advance.  There are far better ways to improve our players. 

I’ll agree with the short term long term stuff but that’s it. 

Edited August 13, 2018 by Wolfturdo

[Wolfturdo 123]

2 minutes ago, Queanbeyan Demon said:

With one exception, the whole thread is crap . . . 

Ill-informed opinions and a*r* holes - lots in common.

Some of the drivel we have to read on here boggles the mind 

[monoccular 17,573]

Do Hawthorn still do the Kokoda camp / treck?

Did it start with Clarkson and coincide with their period of dominance, that started earlier and lasted longer than most expected?

I wonder if anyone has sought Lewis’ opinion.

Edited August 13, 2018 by monoccular

[SaberFang 7,151]

10 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Wait 2 weeks

Why bother waiting? We all know how this script ends and anyone who thinks otherwise is simply in denial.

Accept it now, it'll be a lot less painful in a fortnight when we finish 9th.

[jackaub 1,402]

15 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

No.  It's the greatest non-issue in footballing history.   Did it matter when we won 6 on the trot?  Of course not.  It doesn't matter now either.

Composure around the ground and improving our game plan has nothing to do with lugging a brick up a hill.

No pressure in those wins 

easy peasy to a team who believe thay are great but yet to show it against decent opposition

[Demonsone 2,043]

I just wander if the players canceling this camp is the difference, are they willing to leave no stone unturned to achieve success. In particular that they missed last year by the such s small margin!

[praha 11,240]

Worth discussing come end of round 23. Still 2 rounds to play. I dismiss claims we are weak or soft. IMO it is part leadership (or lack thereof), part coaching, and part lack of big game experience. No amount of personal reflection and mental analysis will change that.

Also consider that, aside from the Hawthorn-Richmond games in Rounds 4 and 5, respectively, we have come up against top 8 sides having played lower-placed/poor sides for multiple weeks. IMO this makes it difficult to establish good habits and to play at a consistently high level, a problem for a young side that is not used to the pressure. How can they know of what it takes to play at a consistent high level when they can play in second gear one week and win by 90 points, and then face a tough side? We're talking about a team led by a brigade that has never played finals, nor played in such high-pressure contests consistently.

I don't think we will beat WC but I think that coming into the match having just played Sydney is a good thing. There is a consistent quality of opponent over three weeks, and so, really, this is the best three-game period you could ask for coming into the finals: get that big scalp, and anything is possible. It's perfect timing.

We will win one of the next two. I hope it's this week. 

[spirit of norm smith 16,584]

Close games v injuries. Lever and Viney. They play. We beat Saints, Swans and Cats. 

[chookrat 4,268]

5 hours ago, Hogan2014 said:

I just wander if the players canceling this camp is the difference, are they willing to leave no stone unturned to achieve success. In particular that they missed last year by the such s small margin!

Without question, we should have gone on the Adelaide camp.

[buck_nekkid 6,046]

Thing I’m most looking forward to?  People letting go of this camp thing.  Honestly, if it was going to be the difference, wouldn’t the players queue up to go?  

What specifically would they have learned or developed on a weekend away that would change what they are doing now?  Game specific composure and experiencing close game conditions aren’t found up a mountain.

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,408]

1 hour ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Close games v injuries. Lever and Viney. They play. We beat Saints, Swans and Cats. 

Hawks currently have a couple out.

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

25 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Hawks currently have a couple out.

Are you saying we are as good as the Hawks?

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,408]

19 minutes ago, Unleash Hell said:

Are you saying we are as good as the Hawks?

I’m saying all teams have injuries. We didn’t lose the mentioned games because Lever and Viney weren’t playing. I think mindset is the reason we lost, and that’s an area the Hawks have us well and truly covered.

[dl4e 5,851]

What do people do when they go camping. Usually they will sit around a fire and bulltish to one another. Where is the correlation of that and losing close games of footy. None that I can see. 

[loges 6,767]

3 hours ago, praha said:

Worth discussing come end of round 23. Still 2 rounds to play. I dismiss claims we are weak or soft. IMO it is part leadership (or lack thereof), part coaching, and part lack of big game experience. No amount of personal reflection and mental analysis will change that.

Also consider that, aside from the Hawthorn-Richmond games in Rounds 4 and 5, respectively, we have come up against top 8 sides having played lower-placed/poor sides for multiple weeks. IMO this makes it difficult to establish good habits and to play at a consistently high level, a problem for a young side that is not used to the pressure. How can they know of what it takes to play at a consistent high level when they can play in second gear one week and win by 90 points, and then face a tough side? We're talking about a team led by a brigade that has never played finals, nor played in such high-pressure contests consistently.

I don't think we will beat WC but I think that coming into the match having just played Sydney is a good thing. There is a consistent quality of opponent over three weeks, and so, really, this is the best three-game period you could ask for coming into the finals: get that big scalp, and anything is possible. It's perfect timing.

We will win one of the next two. I hope it's this week. 

Definately leadership.

[Undeeterred 3,124]

Not sure that going away and having heads smashed with bricks, or being forced to work through a knee injury, would help us that much at this point.

[junk 342]

S.O.N.S, injuries v close games, is a valid point. BUT who would get the flick v west coast ? 

[Redleg 41,420]

54 minutes ago, dl4e said:

What do people do when they go camping. Usually they will sit around a fire and bulltish to one another. Where is the correlation of that and losing close games of footy. None that I can see. 

Have you never sat around a campfire drinking hot chocolate and singing kumbaya? My goal kicking improved every year after I went camping. 

[SFebes 4,884]

The media are blaming the camp itself, The issue isn't the camp, or the fact we didn't go, the issue I think is why the players ran to the AFLPA and not the coach.

[Juicebox 628]

11 minutes ago, MSFebey said:

The media are blaming the camp itself, The issue isn't the camp, or the fact we didn't go, the issue I think is why the players ran to the AFLPA and not the coach.

I think there's layers to this story and thats definitely one of the chunkier parts of it.

Are we a united team/club or are we fractured? 

Edited August 18, 2018 by Juicebox

[jnrmac 20,180]

20 minutes ago, MSFebey said:

The media are blaming the camp itself, The issue isn't the camp, or the fact we didn't go, the issue I think is why the players ran to the AFLPA and not the coach.

This is the big issue and it has been ignored.

What kind of leadership and communication do we have when players go running off the AFLPA?

Imagine Jono Brown or Luke Hodge finding out that the players had gone around them to the AFLPA. And the fact that communication was not able to be had with the coach who said he was 'blindsided' by the move.

This is the crux. Communication and leadership. Two big voids.