Red Card Rule

[Demonland 72,213]

Yay or Nay.

Jonesy is all for it.

 

[daisycutter 29,616]

in the gaff case i don't think the umps saw it. did they give a free or report him? if not then a red card would be hard to give.

maybe i'm wrong and an ump did see it. anyone know?

[Smokey 4,389]

I can't understand the argument against the idea to be honest. Freo were a player down after that incident, why the hell shouldn't West coast be too. 

[Deemania since 56 6,640]

There are moments when a red card is needed. There are moments when a red card is not needed, replaced by two yellow cards in one game, perhaps.

The AFL through the umpires is affecting game outcomes and leading, senior, champion players stage for frees and attention at will in incidents that do not fully exist; for example, Dangerfield, Selwood, Brown, Reiwoldt, Grey, Franklin., et al. 

Do we have the confidence to place in the hands of the umpires the final decision to red card a player?

Some theatrical performances are so refined that these impress the observer as being reality itself. In the hands of the White Brethren, led as they are by AFL pedigree interests, it would just be another can of worms.

[In Harmes Way 7,783]

In the world of soccer, where they haven't changed the rules in the last 50+ years (apart from introducing offside), the red card rule has stood up without question. 

Only the AFL seems to make a complete hash of these things. We'd only be looking at completely blatant (dog) acts where the send off would be called upon. I like the idea that the offending team is one player down as a result of that player's stupidity, it matches the loss of the opposition (if the victim can't come back on).

If we had another Troy Simmons incident in the first 5 mins of a grand final, I'd be spewing.  

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,508]

I’m opposed.

It’s ripe for manipulation from players taking a dive.  As much as I’m loath to use this as an example, but would Will Schofield have been carded for his blatant strike on Oliver last year?

There are plenty of times where something appears to be terrible, but on closer examination is not so bad.  That’s why the system in place is meant to explore the evidence in detail, hear expert and witness testimony, then reach a decision.  This due process would be eliminated with a ‘Red Card’.

[Bagdana 58]

I completely agree with Smokey. Why should a team by penalized because they are a victim of thuggery?

I don't think final say should go to the umps though. The umps should have stop play and make a request for a video review for the issue of a red card. The review boys should also be able to issue the card at any stage.

[SFebes 4,884]

I'm in the no category. The player gets his punishment through suspension. Just make the suspension 15 weeks for any strike and send the message out strong. Too many ifs and maybes, will umpire see it etc. AFL needs to make it an automatic 2 week suspension for any jumper punch also, then it'll stop regardless. It's not soccer.

[leucopogon 1,519]

I'm in favour of issuing a send off if an opponent is rendered incapable of resuming as a direct result of a cardable offence. Seems only fair.

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,508]

2 minutes ago, leucopogon said:

I'm in favour of issuing a send off if an opponent is rendered incapable of resuming as a direct result of a cardable offence. Seems only fair.

This principle is fine, but who makes this decision?  How much time are they given to reach the conclusion? What resources do they have at their disposal?

It is a massive decision to make and we rarely ever have consensus in the AFL community over the outcome of match-review and tribunal hearings.

[SFebes 4,884]

2 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

This principle is fine, but who makes this decision?  How much time are they given to reach the conclusion? What resources do they have at their disposal?

It is a massive decision to make and we rarely ever have consensus in the AFL community over the outcome of match-review and tribunal hearings.

Then you also have the issue of if it revolves around a players injury report at the time, club doctors will milk it, umpires dont see everything. Already enough grey areas in the game, just make harsher penalties and fines.

[Guest]

Yes for mine.

The rule should however be tightly defined. I reckon it should be  defined as reckless contact that takes an opposition player permanently out of the game (i.e. Gaff, Bugg and Hall) or a malicious and unprovoked act that is contrary to the spirit of the game (i.e Libba's eye gouging).

Though I'm sure that there are better wordsmiths out there than me.

Edited August 6, 2018 by Colin B. Flaubert

[dl4e 5,851]

No.

Our game has been played for 160 years and we have never had this red card rule. On how many occasions does a player get belted like Brayshaw yesterday ? Very rarely. The last one was maybe Hall and how long ago was that. The best way to deal with it is proper penalties. Ban Gaff for 12 months and strip his pay. There are too many rule changes in the AFL. 

That is just an opinion.

[jnrmac 20,090]

No.

In this case the ump didn't even see it. Hard to red card that. How can it ever be consistent?

And what if a mistake is made? What repercussions will there be (none).

The AFL can't even get the tribunal right, the umps can't get frees right and the goal review is a farce.

Ours is the only physical contact 360 degree game in the world to my knowledge. Its an incredibly hard game to adjudicate. 

Leave it alone.

[dimmy 1,307]

A "Red Card" had never really entered my mind until a couple of incidents e.g. Bugg(Melb), Hall and now Gaff ,which are quite blatant transgressions. We have cameras everywhere (except to adjudge goals) so the video "referee"" could suggest to an umpire that a very very serious incident has occurred , especially off the ball.

So for mine a definite yes, because Gaff played out the game until Fremantle blokes made him a target and caught up with him (which if implemented takes that aspect out of it). Andrew Brayshaw will not be playing for the rest of the year either.

Serious Off the ball incidents are not commonplace, but are a serious blight on all levels of the game.

[DubDee 25,886]

I think it has some merit but only for extreme cases such as Bugg or Gaff.  As we cant rely on the umps to see these as they are usually off the ball, I think they can be reviewed and confirmed via video evidence perhaps at the next quarter break.

It is also for the safety of the bloke that did the hit.  we saw blokes tryin to whack Gaff.  no idea why they put him back on tbh

[Damo 3,356]

Yes.

If only to stop square-ups that both teams will fight about. If the player is sent off, there is no one to remonstrate with.

[rjay 24,929]

40 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

And what if a mistake is made? What repercussions will there be (none)

The order off should only be for major incidents as others have noted above.

What about the team left one short for the game...what if big Max or Clarry are taken out in the first 10mins of a GF.

What are the repercussions then? none...the other side take their premiership medallions off to mad Monday and the rest is history.

Of course there should be an order off rule...the AFL have been swinging in the wind with this one for too long now.

[DV8 2,271]

2 hours ago, Demonland said:

Yay or Nay.

Jonesy is all for it.

 

NOPE.   no red cards/yellow cards, of any sort.

 

A Sin bin, Yes.    With proviso's.

If a player has been knocked out or severely injured maliciously, off the play, and leaves the ground unable to return,  the perpetrator should be 'SinBinned' for a matching time of the victim.  Which could end up in weeks of the season.

 

Or, If a player has given a jumper punch dropping the opponent, or been overly abusive to an umpire, he could be given 5 mins in SinBin.

The Team plays one down, for the period.

 

In the case of a 'SinBin', for a player victim who has been removed straight from the ground and not through the interchange gate, the perpetrator also sits the match out, but a Substitute player can enter the game to even the numbers.

.

[DV8 2,271]

2 hours ago, daisycutter said:

in the gaff case i don't think the umps saw it. did they give a free or report him? if not then a red card would be hard to give.

maybe i'm wrong and an ump did see it. anyone know?

The 3rd umpire who reviews the goals, etc, should be involved in these type instances.

[layzie 33,814]

I'm saying no. However this might be the closest I've been to seeing the other side of it.

I think in regards to the offending player's safety getting Gaff out of the game completely is probably a good move. Emotions run high after these incidents and Freo players were looking to line him up, the general mood becomes bitter and its a terrible look for the game.

However that is the only aspect I'm interested in. I remain a no because I have no faith whatsoever in umpires officiating this. To say that we'll "only have it for extreme situations" is excellent in theory. But it throws another can of worms at an already expanding can that is the AFL rulebook and. Once we open the pandora's box on send offs how long is it before we see mistakes made and players being sent off for what was probably just a report and a 3 week suspension. Guaranteed someone will muddy the boundaries and send offs will just become another thing that we'll debate over bad and good assessments and decisions, not to mention the umpires won't even see it half the time.

Suspend them more, fine them more do whatever you have to do except this.

 

[jnrmac 20,090]

Incidents like this are rare. This is maybe the 3rd time since 2008 we have seen such a brutal outcome? Zero would of course be better but  these guys play on the edge.

If there is any surprise its that more don't go over the edge.

[jnrmac 20,090]

Another thought on this..the whole niggle, off the ball bumps, scragging and pinching etc that some players do to try and keep ball players like Ablett, Cripps and Oliver off their game is generally the basis for a lot of this retaliatory stuff.

Didn't watch the game so can't comment on Brayshaw and Gaff but in general the AFL has been very poor at policing and eradicating this stuff. Its a blight on the game and on good players. Eradicating it would go a long way to eradicating the hits both on and of the ball methinks..

Zero tolerance and consistency would see it stop pretty quickly...

[Cards13 9,117]

3 hours ago, dl4e said:

No.

Our game has been played for 160 years and we have never had this red card rule. On how many occasions does a player get belted like Brayshaw yesterday ? Very rarely. The last one was maybe Hall and how long ago was that. The best way to deal with it is proper penalties. Ban Gaff for 12 months and strip his pay. There are too many rule changes in the AFL. 

That is just an opinion.

I feel the same, it’s not like 30+ years ago where mass punch ons, swinging elbows and head high shots were par for the course. 

It’s rare and getting rarer, our game is not played that way any longer. 

[demon3165 2,719]

4 hours ago, Demonland said:

Yay or Nay.

Jonesy is all for it.

 

So it appears Jones thinks the same way as he plays football panicky as much as it appears a brain fade from Gaff  these incidents are pretty rare introducing a red card would be an over reaction in my view just like the AFL with them wanting to change the way the game looks.