Delisting, Trade and FA discussion 2018

[SFebes 4,692]

I'd go hell for leather at Steven May, I think we need an experienced defender whos a leader, Lever can be third man up where he plays his best. We still don't know what our best 22 is, where do we play Tmac? Does Omac continue to get a game? Hogan needs to play forward. Does Weid fit in? It's all very unsettled. But I think we need that KPD. Frost is obviously out of favour, Petty is a long way off and who knows with Kielty.

We need some pace obviously, another Saad tupe who breaks the game open off HBF, develop and go over and beyond with Hunt. We need to rebuild the defence with experience, I don't think J Smith is the answer, Jetta is getting older too.

[monoccular 16,187]

On 7/2/2018 at 8:30 AM, spirit of norm smith said:

Omcd.  Lever.  Frost.  Petty.  Keilty 

thats plenty.  

If anything, need a small defender in case Jetta goes down. 

 

Question for Casey watchers 

How far off is Dion J as an AFL level small defender?

[SFebes 4,692]

Take your pick, Atley worth a look of HB?

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-07-03/on-the-market-free-agents-still-up-for-grabs

 

Edited July 3, 2018 by SFebey

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Agree with Sfebey.

Oscar after the weekend is back to performing the way he was last year. 

Playing without physicality, urgency or smarts. It's just limbs everywhere at present and as much as our defensive system as a whole isn't working, you simply need to have strong defensive pillars at all times. 

Now before fanboys of his come at me like a buzzard, believing I'm 'blaming' him for our loss, just hold up. 

Look around the league. The best defensive units have super strong bodied key position defenders that are the glue for the rest of their defensive unit. Our keys at the moment without lever look again like school boys playing against men. 

It reminds me of when we were made to play Scully, Trengove, Morton etc all at once. It's clear as day we made an error by not bringing in a mature-aged key after giving Dunn the flick. 

We've loaded up with young keys and that's fine. But why not have a crack on Steven May if he's exploring his options? He is a top 5 key defender. Why do we need to wait? Who knows whether Oscar will actually come through. 

There's no reason why he can't continue to develop at Casey. Some of his efforts on the weekend were that of an 18 year old, underdeveloped and physically intimidated tall. 

Edited July 3, 2018 by stevethemanjordan

[Wiseblood 24,636]

I'd like to see any key defender perform well with the lack of defensive pressure we put on up the field.  

Oscar is fine and he isn't even close to being a problem for the club at present.

[DeleteUser 638]

Can Westhoff play back

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

5 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

I'd like to see any key defender perform well with the lack of defensive pressure we put on up the field.  

Oscar is fine and he isn't even close to being a problem for the club at present.

There a few problem areas. 

Our lack of key position experience and size is one. 

Dismissing such a thing is ridiculous. 

[FarNorthernD 5,848]

6 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

I'd like to see any key defender perform well with the lack of defensive pressure we put on up the field.  

Oscar is fine and he isn't even close to being a problem for the club at present.

Agree. Whilst some of our backs are down on form, the All Australian back six would leak goals if the opposition are allowed to individually flood into their 50. Oscar ain’t the problem.

[Wiseblood 24,636]

3 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

There a few problem areas. 

Our lack of key position experience and size is one. 

Dismissing such a thing is ridiculous. 

I'm not dismissing it.  Don't be so melodramatic.

I'd acknowledge that our second key defensive post is now an issue.  Oscar is not.  Who we have playing alongside him is now the problem we need to solve.  They've given Petty a run and, right now, he is probably not the answer.  So we'll try something else, whatever that may be.

But descending back into this farce of knocking Oscar McDonald, when there is no reason to, is silly.  What did he do wrong on the weekend?  How many times was he beaten one on one?  How many clangers did he have?  Not many from memory.   Many of the goals were kicked on Petty.  

I think it stinks that we're back to this again when there is no reason to be.

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,177]

7 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

I'm not dismissing it.  Don't be so melodramatic.

I'd acknowledge that our second key defensive post is now an issue.  Oscar is not.  Who we have playing alongside him is now the problem we need to solve.  They've given Petty a run and, right now, he is probably not the answer.  So we'll try something else, whatever that may be.

But descending back into this farce of knocking Oscar McDonald, when there is no reason to, is silly.  What did he do wrong on the weekend?  How many times was he beaten one on one?  How many clangers did he have?  Not many from memory.   Many of the goals were kicked on Petty.  

I think it stinks that we're back to this again when there is no reason to be.

Exactly.  Whilst Oscar's game on the weekend wasn't great, he's had a fantastic season as our no 1 key defender.  One match does not undo his great work through the course of the year.  We saw him beaten by Cox v Collingwood, but Cox will do that to most defenders if there is no third man up or little midfield pressure being put on the person delivering the ball to advantage.

The Footage Lyon shared on Fox illustrated there was little pressure being applied to the StKilda ball carrier when they got into space, KPD are going to struggle to cover this 100% of the time.

[Wiseblood 24,636]

3 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

The Footage Lyon shared on Fox illustrated there was little pressure being applied to the StKilda ball carrier when they got into space, KPD are going to struggle to cover this 100% of the time.

This is the big one for me.  The St. Kilda forwards has acres and acres of space to work in, while their midfield had plenty of time to settle and hit a target.  Not much anybody can do to stop that, and that rests at the feet of our midfield.

[SFebes 4,692]

46 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Agree with Sfebey.

Oscar after the weekend is back to performing the way he was last year. 

Playing without physicality, urgency or smarts. It's just limbs everywhere at present and as much as our defensive system as a whole isn't working, you simply need to have strong defensive pillars at all times. 

Now before fanboys of his come at me like a buzzard, believing I'm 'blaming' him for our loss, just hold up. 

Look around the league. The best defensive units have super strong bodied key position defenders that are the glue for the rest of their defensive unit. Our keys at the moment without lever look again like school boys playing against men. 

It reminds me of when we were made to play Scully, Trengove, Morton etc all at once. It's clear as day we made an error by not bringing in a mature-aged key after giving Dunn the flick. 

We've loaded up with young keys and that's fine. But why not have a crack on Steven May if he's exploring his options? He is a top 5 key defender. Why do we need to wait? Who knows whether Oscar will actually come through. 

There's no reason why he can't continue to develop at Casey. Some of his efforts on the weekend were that of an 18 year old, underdeveloped tall. 

Richmond: Rance, Astbury

Sydney: Grundy, Reid

Geelong: Taylor, Blicavs

Port: Jonas, Hombsch, Clurey

Adelaide: Talia, Hartigan

WCE: McKenzie, McGovern

GWS: Davis, Haynes

Haw: Frawley, Sicily

North: Tarrant, Thompson

Essendon: Hurley, Hooker

Gold Coast: May, Thompson

 

Melbourne: O McDonald, Joel Smith

 

Another KPD, or two, is definitely something we need.

 

Edited July 3, 2018 by SFebey

[Redleg 37,784]

23 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

There a few problem areas. 

Our lack of key position experience and size is one. 

Dismissing such a thing is ridiculous. 

There seems to be a " do one thing wrong and you are gone" policy with us. Billy and Frost seem to be victims of it, being given 1 game each I think this year and dropped after an error or two never to return.

I wrote on here several times not to let Dunn go, who was also a victim of the policy apparently. He has certainly fitted in well and added to the 2nd team on the ladder, up until his ACL on the weekend.

I am not worried about Oscar who will continue to get stronger and better and who bar 1 -2 games has been good.

One of our Coaches who coached at the Dogs, dumped Higgins, who is now a Brownlow contender at the Roos. They don't know everything clearly, but sometimes they take a line and refuse to budge, no matter what is happening.

We seem to have developed a fairly slow list and with Hunt out and Jeffy in poor form it is much worse. I said over summer we needed more pace, skill  and spread from players who can also apply defensive pressure like a Daniel Rioli. IMO we need to make that our main priority. A Saad or Matthew Whelan type in the back half would also be helpful to allow us to turn defence into attack the way the 3 teams who have just beaten us did. 

[Wiseblood 24,636]

4 minutes ago, SFebey said:

Richmond: Rance, Astbury

Sydney: Grundy, Reid

Geelong: Taylor, Blicavs

Port: Jonas, Hombsch, Clurey

Adelaide: Talia, Hartigan

WCE: McKenzie, McGovern

GWS: Davis, Haynes

Haw: Frawley, Sicily

North: Tarrant, Thompson

Essendon: Hurley, Hooker

Gold Coast: May, Thompson

 

Melbourne: O McDonald, Joel Smith

 

Another KPD, or two, is definitely something we need.

 

I love how you've listed every teams 2 key backs, even if they're injured, but then made sure to leave Lever out as if he doesn't exist.  Some rarely even play back now, like Harry Taylor, while others have never played there, like Sam Reid at Sydney.  I don't know what this post tries to prove, as it fails miserably.

[SFebes 4,692]

Just now, Wiseblood said:

I love how you've listed every teams 2 key backs, even if they're injured, but then made sure to leave Lever out as if he doesn't exist.  Some rarely even play back now, like Harry Taylor, while others have never played there, like Sam Reid at Sydney.  I don't know what this post tries to prove, as it fails miserably.

That's because I don't think Lever is a KPD..... also, I went back through selected teams for the year. Fails miserably? "Don't be so melodramatic"

Rather than attack posters for their opinion in a psycho ex girlfriend style, throw up who you think are those teams KPD's?

 

[Dee Zephyr 17,717]

11 minutes ago, SFebey said:

Richmond: Rance, Astbury

Sydney: Grundy, Reid

Geelong: Taylor, Blicavs

Port: Jonas, Hombsch, Clurey

Adelaide: Talia, Hartigan

WCE: McKenzie, McGovern

GWS: Davis, Haynes

Haw: Frawley, Sicily

North: Tarrant, Thompson

Essendon: Hurley, Hooker

Gold Coast: May, Thompson

 

Melbourne: O McDonald, Joel Smith

 

Another KPD, or two, is definitely something we need.

 

Maybe we could do with more KPD and maybe we couldn’t. Your list highlights that other teams have a backline that’s been together for a number of years, some good ones and some not so good. Unfortunately we make do with what we have at the moment but they aren’t the issue in my opinion.

Sicily is not key position.

[Wiseblood 24,636]

1 minute ago, SFebey said:

That's because I don't think Lever is a KPD..... also, I went back through selected teams for the year. Fails miserably? "Don't be so melodramatic"

Rather than attack posters for their opinion in a psycho ex girlfriend style, throw up who you think are those teams KPD's?

 

Mate, the onus isn't on me.  You're the one who knocked Oscar, so the burden of proof is on you.  Not me. 

And then you come back with this 'attacking posters' garbage when I disagree with your view.  You tried to prove a point and it didn't work.  Lever isn't a KPD at 195cm, but Joel Smith is at just 191cm?  You can't make this stuff up.  

 

[SFebes 4,692]

9 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Mate, the onus isn't on me.  You're the one who knocked Oscar, so the burden of proof is on you.  Not me. 

And then you come back with this 'attacking posters' garbage when I disagree with your view.  You tried to prove a point and it didn't work.  Lever isn't a KPD at 195cm, but Joel Smith is at just 191cm?  You can't make this stuff up.  

 

When did I knock Oscar? I said 'does he continue to get a game' which was in reference to if we go for May and next year, our team is currently unsettled. Last year and before I was very critical of Oscar but have given him plenty of credit this year and have been very happy for him.

Sam Reid never played CHB??!

You have followed me around for months, poking and prodding and disagreeing with just everything I say, I don't care if you have your own opinion, but it's getting a bit creepy, I'm not the only one you do it to and others notice it also. Keep posting for likes and I will just keep telling it how it is and trying to involve others in conversation, rather than belittling them, perhaps use the ignore function?

Most people, including experts will all say Lever is more a floater, intercept player, not a KPD and Joel Smith is our current CHB. We are still missing a KPD, IMO.

Edited July 3, 2018 by SFebey

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

1 hour ago, Wiseblood said:

I'm not dismissing it.  Don't be so melodramatic.

I'd acknowledge that our second key defensive post is now an issue.  Oscar is not.  Who we have playing alongside him is now the problem we need to solve.  They've given Petty a run and, right now, he is probably not the answer.  So we'll try something else, whatever that may be.

But descending back into this farce of knocking Oscar McDonald, when there is no reason to, is silly.  What did he do wrong on the weekend?  How many times was he beaten one on one?  How many clangers did he have?  Not many from memory.   Many of the goals were kicked on Petty.  

I think it stinks that we're back to this again when there is no reason to be.

"Oscar is fine and he isn't even close to be being a problem for the club at the moment". 

That's dismissive m8. 

I'm not sure why it doesn't compute for some, but I've made it fairly clear that it's not alllll Oscar's fault. 

I've highlighted one problem area, which is real. And which imo has some significant flow-on effects that supporters clearly can't see. 

I'm going to go to the effort to learn how to edit some clips of what I'm talking about and post them. Obviously there are a handful of problems at our club. The absence of an experienced and consistent key defender is a big issue. 

Edited July 3, 2018 by stevethemanjordan

[DV8 2,271]

On 7/2/2018 at 8:00 AM, Petraccattack said:

Any gun key position defenders we can poach?   It looks like slim pickings.

This team desperately needs one....   could we sign Adelaides McGovern and turn him into a KPD?

Apparently May hasn't decided yet, since its early July.

I would say the Clarko is into him.

[hemingway 7,597]

50 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

I'm not dismissing it.  Don't be so melodramatic.

I'd acknowledge that our second key defensive post is now an issue.  Oscar is not.  Who we have playing alongside him is now the problem we need to solve.  They've given Petty a run and, right now, he is probably not the answer.  So we'll try something else, whatever that may be.

But descending back into this farce of knocking Oscar McDonald, when there is no reason to, is silly.  What did he do wrong on the weekend?  How many times was he beaten one on one?  How many clangers did he have?  Not many from memory.   Many of the goals were kicked on Petty.  

I think it stinks that we're back to this again when there is no reason to be.

Fair comment Wise.

The biggest hole in our defence was Petty. He was not able to do even the basic negating role, let alone provide any support for others.

OM was generally not to bad but at times he looks completely exposed both in the air and on the ground. When the ball comes directly to him one on one, he's generally not too bad and at least gives a 50/50 chance of stopping his opponent marking.  However, he still lacks intensity and ferocity at the ball and his opponent. Lever had that in spades. He also had great speed getting to a contest and great intercept ability. We miss that so much. As soon as the opposition move the ball into their forward half quickly our defence inspires no confidence and looks completely exposed as if they have their feet in sand (excluding Jetta). 

So what to do ?

There appears no solution other than to try make the most of a bad situation. 

Frost must be tried and given some continuity of games. He has height, pace and ability to rebound. He has deficiencies as we all know but so do the other defenders currently in the side. He brings something that we lack. 

We need to move or drop Lewis who is slow and a complete liability with ball in hand.  Reluctantly, I think we need to consider moving TMac back to CHB.

I know, I know but we need to do something, as the shambles of our backline allows our opponent to salivate with unbridled relish and indulge in the most hedonistic picnic imaginable.    

I know nothing about Keilty but unless he has some toe and can do the basic things well, I would not pick him.  

 

Edited July 3, 2018 by hemingway

[Young Blood 2,036]

14 minutes ago, SFebey said:

That's because I don't think Lever is a KPD..... also, I went back through selected teams for the year. Fails miserably? "Don't be so melodramatic"

Rather than attack posters for their opinion in a psycho ex girlfriend style, throw up who you think are those teams KPD's?

 

Jake lever isn't a KPD?? Gee if he's not then we're in trouble.

Yes he plays predominately loose in the backline but he will also still lineup against the oppositions second tall and play one on one (which we know needs work). Much like Rance he will peel off and help out at the contest.

[DV8 2,271]

On 6/28/2018 at 11:35 AM, old dee said:

I think I need to change my glasses.

It's not your glasses, OD.    its your mind.

You can only see what is before you, as in the past few seconds.

 

Instead of being able to see what he's develop into,,, and the little progresses going on.. the finer points.

You seem to have to be slapped with a wet fish, before you can see what it was.

 

Now not all players continue to develop but this kid is just starting to because of his body well being, and size. And his age maturity amongst the big guys.

[Wiseblood 24,636]

2 minutes ago, SFebey said:

You have followed me around for months, poking and prodding and disagreeing with just everything I say, I don't care if you have your own opinion, but it's getting a bit creepy, I'm not the only one you do it to and others notice it also. Keep posting for likes and I will just keep telling it how it is and trying to involve others in conversation, rather than belittling them, perhaps use the ignore function?

How old are you?  12?

2 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

"Oscar is fine and he isn't even close to be being a problem for the club at the moment". 

That's dismissive m8. 

I'm not sure why it does compute for some, but I've made it fairly clear that it's not all Oscar's fault. 

I've highlighted one problem area, which is real. And which imo has some significance flow-on effects that supporters clearly can't see. 

I'm going to go to the effort to learn how to edit some clips of what I'm talking about and post them. Obviously there are a handful of problems at our club. The absence of an experienced and consistent key defender is a big issue. 

I look forward to it, Steve.  Lever going down with an injury has been pretty catastrophic to make up of our backline, as he and Oscar had been working superbly down there together.  No doubt it has hurt us more than I think we care to admit, but I still think Oscar has been doing a pretty good job under the circumstances.  Just last week, outside of a couple of 50 metre penalties, one of which was pretty dodgy, he had Charlie Dixon's measure.  That's no easy task.

Either way, I think finding the right player to put alongside Oscar is the bigger issue than the issue of Oscar himself.

[SFebes 4,692]

1 minute ago, Yung Blood said:

Jake lever isn't a KPD?? Gee if he's not then we're in trouble.

Yes he plays predominately loose in the backline but he will also still lineup against the oppositions second tall and play one on one (which we know needs work). Much like Rance he will peel off and help out at the contest.

Most people, including experts will all say Lever is more a floater, intercept player, 3rd man up, not a KPD and Joel Smith is our current CHB. We are still missing a KPD, IMO and that's what this thread is about - trade and FA discussion. If you don't think we need a KPD that's cool, we need plenty of things.