On 04/06/2018 at 00:37, Wiseblood said:

I'm assuming you've seen enough of him to make the case that he has the intercept marking, positioning and smarts skills to fill the void left by Jake?

I don't necessarily disagree that Frost doesn't exactly play the same role Lever does, but Lever is elite and anybody we bring in is going to fall short in those categories.

I haven't seen him, no. But reading his profile when we got him and hearing about him from people I know who have seen Casey tells me he is much better suited to Lever's role than Frost. 

Plus I don't rate Frost. 

I'm just hoping Goody and co have the courage to give Keilty a shot. What's the worst case? He doesn't play well and we give Frost/Smith a crack. 

 

We need to replace Lever with a tall so that we have the right balance for all forward lines. (Ideally, I don't think we should be changing the backline from week to week.)

Personally, I think Frost is best placed to fill the void but I also think he may need to be given a block of games to find form and gel with the rest of the backline. Frost is a very good player at his best but is inconsistent. Most of time he has had major skill errors in the past have been in the wet/greasy conditions and he is also prone to mistiming pushing up off his man.

Our defence has improved significantly since we have maintained a goalkeeper at full back, covering up the mistakes of defenders in terms of pushing up the ground to help and stifling the opposition's fast breaks. As good as Lever's form has been in the last six weeks, I feel he has also benefited greatly due to us maintaining the goalkeeper. I also think this new structure will also help Frost, in particular, as the consequences of mistiming pushing up off his man are reduced.

Horses for course for me.  There aren't too many teams that have 2 dominant key forwards, so depending on who we play, that will determine how we set up that week.  Not ideal (in that there could be a change each week), but that's where we are at.

For example, this week I don't see the need to bring in Frost, especially if Reid doesn't get up (which is likely by all reports).  So bringing in a Joel Smith might the logical answer.  First game back from the bye we have Port, which may require a change, given they have Dixon, Westhoff and (to a lesser degree) Watts.

  On 04/06/2018 at 00:47, stevethemanjordan said:

I haven't seen him, no.

 

Strange for you to suggest he's the right replacement if you've never seen him play.

I'm in the Joel Smith camp at the minute, but I still reckon they'll give Frost first crack.  Not saying that's the right thing to do, but I think they'll see it as the safest option for the QB clash.

  On 04/06/2018 at 00:08, DubDee said:

we have no replacement for Lever. I hope we don't change our structure by bringing in a tall stopper type defender.  We need that intercept player. pick the bloke who is best and marking/reading the play/distribution and put him in Lever's spot. I would think outside the square - maybe Hibbo? With most teams these days its not about being tall its about being in the right spot and kicking well.

I'd bring in Hunt to replace Hibbo's run and have Hibbo as the Floater.  Frost comes in if we play a team with several talls

You've nailed my views exactly. 

I don't subscribe to the theory that Lever needs to be replaced with a tall.

No disrespect to Frost, Keilty, etc., but I'd be asking the footy astute Hibberd to play the intercept role and bring in Hunt to provide run off half back (assuming he's got his confidence/form back). 

I don't have any faith in the likes of Frost to play the intercept role.  And I don't want him to be a pivotal decision making, which is what's required from Lever's role.

Allowing Hibberd to take up that role doesn't mess too much with our defensive structures and Hibberd plays tall anyway.

Hunt's best footy was always off half back and he got squeezed out of that role with the inclusions of Vince, Lewis and Salem behind the ball.

There may be the odd game where matchups dictate that a Frost comes in, but not too many.

Goody may have an entirely different view to mine, so I'll watch selection with interest.

Why don't we just flip a coin ?

Dunno, coach will sort it?

I would hope they go with Joel Smith, as I believe his skill set would best compliment , rather than tinker with, our current backline system. With Smith you get both a tall (191cm and a great leap) and an athletic runner, and he appears to be coming into form with Casey. 

Talk of Pedersen playing back is just silly in my opinion; Frost has had many chances and has blown them all; Petty is nowhere near ready; and unfortunately I just don’t know enough about the form of Keilty. As such, i think Smith should get the chance to show what he can do at AFL level.

191 J Smith

192 T Smith

193 C Pedersen

194 J Lever

194 D Kielty

194 S Frost

  On 04/06/2018 at 01:15, daisycutter said:

191 J Smith

192 T Smith

193 C Pedersen

194 J Lever

194 D Kielty

194 S Frost

J Smith is a bit taller than I thought, I believed him to be 188 cm.   Thats a pleasant surprise.

Think it will be between him and Keilty for first crack at Levers spot.

I have gone cold on Frost,  whos basically a taller version of Hunt - play on at all costs and run fast and hope it pays off.    We need composure and footy nous across half back.  

There was a passage last year I think where Frost tried to switch play and kick it down the throat of an opposition player who just strolled forward for an easy goal.

He can't be relied on to provide the half-back run/springboard attack. Disposal just isn't good enough.

Of all the backs we have in Lever's absence, Hibberd's is the best IMO.

Pedersen to be sent down back as a smoky option imo

 

Considering Lever is out for the remainder of the season I think Joel Smith will get a run. 

None of the talls in the reserves will adequately play the intercept defender.  We play a zone defence and the intercept tall is arguably the most important role.  

My guess is they'll give it to Hibberd.  If so, they'll either bring in a tall or someone to replace Hibberd's run.  I wouldn't be averse to Joel Smith, but the thought of Frost, or Keilty doesn't overly thrill me.  And Petty isn't ready.

It’s going to be genuinely interesting to see what solution the coaches come up with. I don’t mind the Hibberd/Hunt idea although I have more faith in Hibberd’s footy smarts than I do in Hunt’s overall form. Still turning it over with some regularity by all reports which we can’t afford to do against a decent side.

Frost would be an option as a replacement for Oscar but less so when it comes to replacing Lever’s intercepting (11 intercept possessions against Adelaide), disposal and decision making.

it’s a pity Dec couldn’t follow up his previous week’s game with a strong performance on the weekend, but he may still be in the frame. I think many Demonlanders would be happy to see him get his chance having vicariously followed his journey.

It seems a case of no option being perfect, so the coaches will need to pick closest to the pin.

  On 04/06/2018 at 00:50, Wiseblood said:

Strange for you to suggest he's the right replacement if you've never seen him play.

Not really. Did I say he was the 'right' replacement? 

I said his skill set is more similar to that of Lever's. I've watched him on TV and read reports on him. 

I'd be keen to see him ahead of Frost. I'm not sure in how many ways you'd like me to articulate this. 

I want to see Declan play at the level. Simple. 

I remember watching Joel Smith matched up on Weideman at training doing contested work in the air and Joel was absolutely smashing him despite giving away quite a bit of size. He's a ferocious competitor, he'd be my first choice.

  On 04/06/2018 at 00:31, stevethemanjordan said:

Frost is not that player. His strengths are his speed and athleticism. Not intercept marking, positioning and smarts. 

You need those three qualities to play that role and he doesn't have them. 

Keilty is the man. 

I'm not sure that Keilty is the man 'steve' but I'm sure it isn't Frost.

  On 04/06/2018 at 01:35, Mach5 said:

Pedersen to be sent down back as a smoky option imo

Not the worst idea 'Mach'...I don't think he's the right option forward now but might break good with the ball coming at him.

For what it's worth I think it's out of Smith, Hunt or Wagner this week.

 

  On 04/06/2018 at 02:14, stevethemanjordan said:

Not really. Did I say he was the 'right' replacement? 

I said his skill set is more similar to that of Lever's. I've watched him on TV and read reports on him. 

I'd be keen to see him ahead of Frost. I'm not sure in how many ways you'd like me to articulate this. 

I want to see Declan play at the level. Simple. 

That's fine.  I just think it's strange for you to suggest Dec is the first cab off the rank without having really seen him play, when you would be the first to sink the boots into someone for making the same suggestion.

Either way, Frost doesn't fill me with confidence, but neither do the rest.  That's not their fault, it's just that Lever is such an elite player for his position that we won't really cover his role as well as we would all like.  

While a like-for-like replacement would be ideal, we don't have the stock for that (at this stage).

I wouldn't be surprised to see Hibbo come across into levers role, and for Hibbo's spot to be replaced by Hunt. Good opportunity for Hunt to find some form and help the team out. As a player he has an enormous upside if we can get him firing. 

For what it's worth Jon Ralph (last night) was of the opinion it will be "Josh Smith". I assume he meant Joel Smith.

For anyone that saw us play the Dogs at Whitten Oval in the JLT last year would've been excited by Smith's performance that day. Took intercept marks, won one-on-ones, strong in contests and was overall promising as the second or third key defender.

He also started off the 2017 season like a rocket V's St Kilda before Riewoldt put him out of business for 3 months.

I personally don't think Frost will play again for the club unless we have an injury crisis. He was out of favour late last year, he only played JLT 2 this year because Oscar went off injured, and then stuffed up again in a mistake riddled performance V's Hawthorn.

  

I think it will be a week to week decision. 

Virtually all of Pies 21 goals yesterday were kicked by medium forwards so we don't necessarily need another tall, this week.  Let Oscar mind Cox this week.  Their forwards are not fast and don't defend very well so a defender with a bit of speed:  Hunt, Frost.  Or someone who can play on small and medium defenders will work best this week: eg Smith, Wagner.  If we put Vince to stop Sidebottom it will slow the supply to their forwards.

The following game, Port have a tall forward line so it will be different considerations.

Wouldn't mind seeing Petty get a go after the Pies game to see what he can do.  Received much praise from Taylor at draft time and has been doing well at Casey.  Maybe against Port when we will need another tall.

Edited June 4, 20186 yr by Lucifer's Hero

  On 04/06/2018 at 02:28, Bring-Back-Powell said:

For what it's worth Jon Ralph (last night) was of the opinion it will be "Josh Smith". I assume he meant Joel Smith.

For anyone that saw us play the Dogs at Whitten Oval in the JLT last year would've been excited by Smith's performance that day. Took intercept marks, won one-on-ones, strong in contests and was overall promising as the second or third key defender.

He also started off the 2017 season like a rocket V's St Kilda before Riewoldt put him out of business for 3 months.

I personally don't think Frost will play again for the club unless we have an injury crisis. He was out of favour late last year, he only played JLT 2 this year because Oscar went off injured, and then stuffed up again in a mistake riddled performance V's Hawthorn.

  

Josh Smith...

These numpties really don’t deserve what they get paid.

Edited June 4, 20186 yr by P-man

  On 04/06/2018 at 02:03, ProDee said:

None of the talls in the reserves will adequately play the intercept defender.  We play a zone defence and the intercept tall is arguably the most important role.  

My guess is they'll give it to Hibberd.  If so, they'll either bring in a tall or someone to replace Hibberd's run.  I wouldn't be averse to Joel Smith, but the thought of Frost, or Keilty doesn't overly thrill me.  And Petty isn't ready.

hibberd is 186cm (6'1"). leave him where does the most damage as a sweeper