I don't judge De Goey but whatever allegations that have been made against him whilst overseas, but I do question his judgment in going overseas in the first place. The timing of those trips screams of lack of professionalism, as it seems that football is a means to his lifestyle. 

Personally, I think the "No DH Policy", is a load of rubbish. Martin Pike was seen as the ultimate DH when at Melbourne, and ended up a 4-time premiership player. Roos admitted that we had the chance to get Toby Greene, but he was seen as a DH. As long as players abide by whatever the club require of them, I couldn't care less what they're like off the field. Although I might draw the line if they love Rap music. (A reference to all the TISM fans).

2 hours ago, Redleg said:

I never said anything about getting De Goey, I was just saying that with their rotten culture they have won 8 in a row and so maybe it's not culture that wins games.

You might not give a rats about a team winning 8 in a row, but I bet their supporters do.

PS: I am certainly not defending De Goey and I wouldn't want him with us.

Yep you can have a “Bad” Culture and still win Silverware. 
Carlton did it for decades 

2 hours ago, Redleg said:

I never said anything about getting De Goey, I was just saying that with their rotten culture they have won 8 in a row and so maybe it's not culture that wins games.

You might not give a rats about a team winning 8 in a row, but I bet their supporters do.

PS: I am certainly not defending De Goey and I wouldn't want him with us.

Fair enough.  I do place a huge value on culture, as clubs are member driven not for profit organisations, and I do think they have a significant role to play in society.  I'm proud of the culture developed at Melbourne, I certainly wouldn't want to have a loose cannon jeopardise it.

he has all the talent to be as good as petracca and absolutely none of the application required to do so

i'm fully expecting him to go to the puddy tatts as a free agent because that is how they maintain their position at the top of the ladder for the last decade; lose champions to retirement and bring in mid-aged good-to-great talented players to replace them, augmented by picking the eyes out of the drafts

8 minutes ago, whatwhat say what said:

he has all the talent to be as good as petracca and absolutely none of the application required to do so

i'm fully expecting him to go to the puddy tatts as a free agent because that is how they maintain their position at the top of the ladder for the last decade; lose champions to retirement and bring in mid-aged good-to-great talented players to replace them, augmented by picking the eyes out of the drafts

can't really see him going to the cats. their culture is quite strong and doubt they'd want the risk

besides.....he's too young...lol

12 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

can't really see him going to the cats. their culture is quite strong and doubt they'd want the risk

besides.....he's too young...lol

they'll look at what they've done for stengle and back themselves in to do it for de goey as well

Edited July 19, 20222 yr by whatwhat say what

31 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Yep you can have a “Bad” Culture and still win Silverware. 
Carlton did it for decades 

You can .... like your Carlton example from 40 years ago where success was largely determined by your zone and how much you were able to play your players. It was also a period where the quality of individuals was far more important than the cohesion of a team. 

As for the last 25 years, you could probably only really point to the 2006 West Coast team, who won a flag (although it could be argued that they vastly underperformed based on their talent - Cox, Judd, Cousins, Kerr etc - and it being a soft period in the competition between Brisbane and Geelong/Hawthorn teams).

Not sure how Kate Roffey would feel if she knew her footy club was interested in a bloke that has had sexual assault history.. 

He's a genuine pig of a human. Lets leave it to the dwarf lighters (St Kilda) for this one.

It’s a no no and No from me 

9 minutes ago, Axis of Bob said:

You can .... like your Carlton example from 40 years ago where success was largely determined by your zone and how much you were able to play your players. It was also a period where the quality of individuals was far more important than the cohesion of a team. 

As for the last 25 years, you could probably only really point to the 2006 West Coast team, who won a flag (although it could be argued that they vastly underperformed based on their talent - Cox, Judd, Cousins, Kerr etc - and it being a soft period in the competition between Brisbane and Geelong/Hawthorn teams).

What about the Rat Pack Pies in 2010?

There are also plenty of examples of bad eggs in good cultures who became premiership players. (De Goey would also be a premiership player but for a Dom Sheed kick from the boundary.)

That said, I agree with the sentiment that culture is important and I raised De Goey as a topic without having a firm view on the pros/cons.

 

 

 

15 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

What about the Rat Pack Pies in 2010?

There are also plenty of examples of bad eggs in good cultures who became premiership players. (De Goey would also be a premiership player but for a Dom Sheed kick from the boundary.)

That said, I agree with the sentiment that culture is important and I raised De Goey as a topic without having a firm view on the pros/cons.

 

 

 

It's certainly a good one to raise 'Fat' because talent alone he's easily a top 10 player in the game.

I wouldn't be surprised if Degoey's name is raised when our list management and Goody do sit down for their annual catch up.

But when weighing everything I think he's just far too toxic for the culture we're trying to build. 

 

7 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

What about the Rat Pack Pies in 2010?

Good pick up. 

Interesting though that that Collingwood team really only a 3 year window (2010 -2012) to win a flag before they kind of imploded. Really interesting was their list profile when they won the flag: 

• 0 players 30+ years old,
• 1x 29yo (B Johnson),
• 2x 28yo (Jolly, L Brown),
• 2x 27yo (Maxwell, Didak),
• 2x 26yo (Ball, Swan),
• 0x 25yo,
• 1x 24yo (H Shaw)
• 5x 23yo
• 4x 22yo
• 2x 21yo
• 2x 20yo
• 1x 19yo 

By 2013, only Leigh Brown had retired. They effectively fell out of their premiership window with a list that probably got better, with Pendlebury, Thomas, Beams, Sidebottom and Wellingham moving into their early primes, adding Grundy, and Swan still being top 3 in the Brownlow.

They squandered a dynasty through their terrible culture.

1 hour ago, whatwhat say what said:

they'll look at what they've done for stengle and back themselves in to do it for de goey as well

lol,...not sure i'd equate stengle with degoey

And West Coast had a window of 2 years (2005-2006) despite their extraordinary midfield. They went out in straight sets in 2007 and imploded to second last in 2008 .... 2 years after winning a flag with a 28 year old Cousins, 27 year old Fletcher and Wirrpanda, 25 year old Cox, Glass and Embley, and 23 year Judd and Kerr. 

Incredible.

9 minutes ago, Axis of Bob said:

Good pick up. 

Interesting though that that Collingwood team really only a 3 year window (2010 -2012) to win a flag before they kind of imploded. Really interesting was their list profile when they won the flag: 

• 0 players 30+ years old,
• 1x 29yo (B Johnson),
• 2x 28yo (Jolly, L Brown),
• 2x 27yo (Maxwell, Didak),
• 2x 26yo (Ball, Swan),
• 0x 25yo,
• 1x 24yo (H Shaw)
• 5x 23yo
• 4x 22yo
• 2x 21yo
• 2x 20yo
• 1x 19yo 

By 2013, only Leigh Brown had retired. They effectively fell out of their premiership window with a list that probably got better, with Pendlebury, Thomas, Beams, Sidebottom and Wellingham moving into their early primes, adding Grundy, and Swan still being top 3 in the Brownlow.

They squandered a dynasty through their terrible culture.

You are right that they could have been a dynasty with that list profile but the Pies did come up against a great side in 2011 and led by 16 points in the Grand Final. (The 2011 Cats sit on the frontier of premiership sides since 2000 along with the 2000 Bombers, 2007 Cats and 2021 Demons according to the squiggle. https://live.squiggle.com.au/2000.html)  The exit of Malthouse was another factor in the failure to capitalise on a great list.

Your analysis also shows that dynasties are hard to come by. Sometimes you have to take risks with bad eggs and trust your culture. The Hawks added Brian Lake and won 3 flags.

 

15 minutes ago, Axis of Bob said:

Good pick up. 

Interesting though that that Collingwood team really only a 3 year window (2010 -2012) to win a flag before they kind of imploded. Really interesting was their list profile when they won the flag: 

• 0 players 30+ years old,
• 1x 29yo (B Johnson),
• 2x 28yo (Jolly, L Brown),
• 2x 27yo (Maxwell, Didak),
• 2x 26yo (Ball, Swan),
• 0x 25yo,
• 1x 24yo (H Shaw)
• 5x 23yo
• 4x 22yo
• 2x 21yo
• 2x 20yo
• 1x 19yo 

By 2013, only Leigh Brown had retired. They effectively fell out of their premiership window with a list that probably got better, with Pendlebury, Thomas, Beams, Sidebottom and Wellingham moving into their early primes, adding Grundy, and Swan still being top 3 in the Brownlow.

They squandered a dynasty through their terrible culture.

A mate who is a huge Collingwood supporter puts this failure squarely at the feet of Nathan Buckley. As you point out Axis of Bob, they had a great young list that never reached heights it should have, particularly 2012-15. 
My mate is getting great satisfaction watching them play now under McRae . He also thinks De Goey should go and Foxtrot Oscar

1 hour ago, Axis of Bob said:

You can .... like your Carlton example from 40 years ago where success was largely determined by your zone and how much you were able to play your players. It was also a period where the quality of individuals was far more important than the cohesion of a team. 

As for the last 25 years, you could probably only really point to the 2006 West Coast team, who won a flag (although it could be argued that they vastly underperformed based on their talent - Cox, Judd, Cousins, Kerr etc - and it being a soft period in the competition between Brisbane and Geelong/Hawthorn teams).

Agree. Culture can also mean everybody on the same page. West Coast were truly toxic, but they were a dam good pressure side on The field. How much was due to stimulants we will never know 

I am not saying we should get De Goey, but it should be a consideration with our on going forward structure. 
The Filth want him out, so they have to accept a contract situation they do not like for both De Goey and Grundy 

1 hour ago, Fat Tony said:

What about the Rat Pack Pies in 2010?

There are also plenty of examples of bad eggs in good cultures who became premiership players. (De Goey would also be a premiership player but for a Dom Sheed kick from the boundary.)

That said, I agree with the sentiment that culture is important and I raised De Goey as a topic without having a firm view on the pros/cons.

Luckily Buckley came in and fixed their culture. From a flag winning young team in a window to years without finals 😂

4 hours ago, mo64 said:

Personally, I think the "No DH Policy", is a load of rubbish. Martin Pike was seen as the ultimate DH when at Melbourne, and ended up a 4-time premiership player. Roos admitted that we had the chance to get Toby Greene, but he was seen as a DH. As long as players abide by whatever the club require of them, I couldn't care less what they're like off the field. Although I might draw the line if they love Rap music. (A reference to all the TISM fans).

Jaidyn Stephenson has been a raging success at Norf - the betting on a games you're playing in thing should've been a red flag. Presume he'd have failed the MFC's "No Jaidyn's" policy in any event...

Problem with DHs is you're in a hiding to nothing - if they fail, it was obvious to anyone they were going to fail...

What happened to all the Perpetually Offended on Behalf of Others, baying for blood over the Bali video? 

Ninthmond won it in 2020 with two players arrested. 

4 hours ago, Axis of Bob said:

Good pick up. 

Interesting though that that Collingwood team really only a 3 year window (2010 -2012) to win a flag before they kind of imploded. Really interesting was their list profile when they won the flag: 

• 0 players 30+ years old,
• 1x 29yo (B Johnson),
• 2x 28yo (Jolly, L Brown),
• 2x 27yo (Maxwell, Didak),
• 2x 26yo (Ball, Swan),
• 0x 25yo,
• 1x 24yo (H Shaw)
• 5x 23yo
• 4x 22yo
• 2x 21yo
• 2x 20yo
• 1x 19yo 

By 2013, only Leigh Brown had retired. They effectively fell out of their premiership window with a list that probably got better, with Pendlebury, Thomas, Beams, Sidebottom and Wellingham moving into their early primes, adding Grundy, and Swan still being top 3 in the Brownlow.

They squandered a dynasty through their terrible culture.

Coaching [censored] up!

Interesting conversation. 

Our sustained success will be at the feet of Petracca, Oliver, Lever, Viney, Langdon and whatever stars firms with them past Gawn, May, and the two big boys up forward.

1 hour ago, Graeme Yeats' Mullet said:

Jaidyn Stephenson has been a raging success at Norf - the betting on a games you're playing in thing should've been a red flag. Presume he'd have failed the MFC's "No Jaidyn's" policy in any event...

Problem with DHs is you're in a hiding to nothing - if they fail, it was obvious to anyone they were going to fail...

Tyson Stengle has been a raging success despite far more serious transgressions. People can change under the right guidance, though I'm not sure that De Goey wants to change.

no NO AND A BIGGER NO .... Just the thought of this Culture Killer of a person at our club fills me with HORROR😱 Even if the club entertained such a player, that would be it for me, No more support, no more money... and worse of all NO MORE PICKET FENCE TRAINING REPORTS.... er, I, ar hope I have made myself very very clear on this!!?