26 minutes ago, A F said:

This is MM's opinion. You present his opinion as if it's fact.

I'm not saying I disagree with what he's saying, but there is room for the possibiliy that other factors are responsible for our missing out on finals in 2017. Such as inexperience. 

It’s been expressed by more people than Mick Malthouse, that my point.

Im not saying it’s a ‘fact’, I’m saying it’s a recurring statement.

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

Meh, I reckon we lost as many games from fear of failure and not taking the game on as we did from overconfidence. 

Not to mention the fatigue factor with a lot of young players getting tired, some older guys slowing down and a lot of players returning from injuries.

I hope we've built physical and mental resilience. That would be my focus, not some outdated concept of drinking your own bathwater.

spot on. against Adelaide over there we played 100% with dare and dash and confidence grew. We play against North and get sucked into an arm wrestle battle and then start to [censored] ourselves when we cant 'put them away' easily. doubts creep in.

4 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

It’s been expressed by more people than Mick Malthouse, that my point.

Im not saying it’s a ‘fact’, I’m saying it’s a recurring statement.

Has it been expressed by anyone inside the club or just those on the outside...?

10 minutes ago, A F said:

Has it been expressed by anyone inside the club or just those on the outside...?

The clubs going to announce their own players are arrogant??

 

How’s about sledging StKilda last year that we would be playing finals and they wouldn’t be?

https://coupler.foxsports.com.au/api/v1/article/amp/afl/media-watch-melbournes-finals-sledges-backfire-spectacularly-call-for-collingwood-to-change-captains/news-story/203bb5f7f726faf489e0cce5725b7b4b

http://www.sportingnews.com/au/amp/afl/news/melbourne-players-massive-sledge-backfire-against-saints-afl-demons-dees-st-kilda/ubzpeo8duw6o13carbfh3hi3p

 

It’s not the end of the world.  They’re extremely competitive players and they have got some strong egos.  GWS were the same, even when they were getting flogged ever week.

 

The media want us to fail as it gives them a chance to pile in. I reckon Essendon are the kings of bathwater drinking and the media is talking them up no end. Looking forward to the media flogs acting like they loved us the whole time when win the flag.

1 hour ago, faultydet said:

This bloke reckons there will be no opinions once the footy starts...........

 

 

Haha, obviously there still will be, but it won't be *all* there is.  We seem to be being inundated with this carp.

I hope that we win 3 or 4 flags with this group and become as hated and respected as the great Hawthorn, Geelong and Lions teams of this era

Bring it, I say!

3 hours ago, sisso said:

Yep, we’ve been getting ahead of ourselves after a couple of good wins since the Daniher era....needs to stop 

This same article could and was written about the tigers and lessor extent the dogs until the last couple of years. We should not take it personally and these themes will   not stop until we win the flag- or at least deep into the finals. At least we are being taken seriously, and now the theme is more about low aim rather than lack of talent. 

It is entirely up to us, as it should be.

50 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

I hope that we win 3 or 4 flags with this group and become as hated and respected as the great Hawthorn, Geelong and Lions teams of this era

Bring it, I say!

Same, although the main difference at the moment is that opposition teams and fans "hated" those clubs because they were so good. Beating them was a statement because it showed you could match it with the best. As it stands, beating Melbourne is more of a victory against hotheads. You want to beat them and you hate them because you want to put them in their place. It's well known within AFL circles that the Dees were strangely cocky and talkative during matches, despite having not actually proven much outside of a handful of big wins in the home and away season. There are also rumours that players were ripping into Port saying stuff like, "This is what a real top 4 team looks like" when we were beating them well, and that this contributed to the change in momentum in the second half. Apparently Petracca and Oliver are the worst offenders when it comes to that. I think there's nothing wrong with trash talking and being overly confident, but you need to play in the "now". As the old saying goes, "you can talk the talk, but can you walk the walk?" If you're going to sledge like a finalist, you better damn well play like a finalist.

1 hour ago, Lord Travis said:

Not sure about Joe Daniher winning the Brownlow.... but yes, it's all mental for our side. If we don't make the 8 this year, it's purely due to lack of commitment and effort. 

Speaking of people who drink their own bath water, Joe would be up there 

He could be correct, but I'd question how Malthouse could possibly know with such certainty...

5 hours ago, Demonland said:

But we should make the finals if we stop looking in the mirror.

 

Yeah well he is 100% right and what's more the reported fallout from Caroline Wilsons article in the AGE says it all.

If we don't make it this year, the players will be damned for all time pulling the pin on the training camp!

4 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Meh, I reckon we lost as many games from fear of failure and not taking the game on as we did from overconfidence. 

Not to mention the fatigue factor with a lot of young players getting tired, some older guys slowing down and a lot of players returning from injuries.

I hope we've built physical and mental resilience. That would be my focus, not some outdated concept of drinking your own bathwater.

That's the actual explanation,other reasons are just the lazy ones. It's Just so easy to say we get ahead of ourselves.

We’ll finish on top, we’ll win the flag, we drink our own bath water, building bricks camp will haunt us...

I don’t even need to watch this season, I’ve already read the book. 

6 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

That is a good article. He is right about all those factors. 

A club that won games in Adelaide and Perth last year should have made the finals, there is no getting away from that. 

The whole club must toughen up

We lack quality past leaders, 'who were winners of the competition'. Leading in the rooms after games. Not letting the current players get ahead of themselves.

 

We should outlaw backslapping our players from prior to Rnd 1.  No backslappers allowed around the club after games, win or lose.

Backslapping is great for overheated Ego's, and plenty of disappointments.

6 hours ago, sisso said:

Yep, we’ve been getting ahead of ourselves after a couple of good wins since the Daniher era....needs to stop 

since? before that era.

 

At least for 25 years now, and counting.

Slap a media ban on themselves until the job's done

2 minutes ago, DV8 said:

We lack quality past leaders, 'who were winners of the competition'. Leading in the rooms after games. Not letting the current players get ahead of themselves.

 

We should outlaw backslapping our players from prior to Rnd 1.  No backslappers allowed around the club after games, win or lose.

Backslapping is great for overheated Ego's, and plenty of disappointments.

We have lacked leadership throughout the whole club for a long time, but i am suprised and a little shocked that the Football Department still switch on & switch off post Roos. 

I thought that would have killed off....

All the old have-beens trying to become relevant again on the eve of the 2018 season. Meh. 

5 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Meh, I reckon we lost as many games from fear of failure and not taking the game on as we did from overconfidence. 

Not to mention the fatigue factor with a lot of young players getting tired, some older guys slowing down and a lot of players returning from injuries.

I hope we've built physical and mental resilience. That would be my focus, not some outdated concept of drinking your own bathwater.

He doesn't mean just 'arrogance'.

 

'Playing safe', is something bathwater drinkers, do, do. 

Not putting in the hard work & courage, when the chips are up in the air, is a part of bathwater-bloated failure.

 

Fear of failure, and playing the 'safe options',  is a habit of this club, traditionally a habit, since at least the late 70's.

And it's a losing habit. a painful habit, and a supporter-killing habit.  a membership killer.  a club killer.

 

It is all those things and we've done it well for nigh on 45 years now.  We are the winners of playing safe in the league. The world record holders of that game, play-safe.

12 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

We have lacked leadership throughout the whole club for a long time, but i am suprised and a little shocked that the Football Department still switch on & switch off post Roos. 

I thought that would have killed off....

Its in the walls, its in the fabric, its in our songs words, its everywhere, in all areas of this club.  Like spores, hard to sterilize them.

Coaches come and go, and that makes it hard to control this infection.

 

With us its like athletes foot, the spores are always around.

 

In the old days we had ruthless hard coaches who were aware of the little psyche things, that creep in.

 

In the NRL the Broncos have Wayne Bennett.   one wise old hand, and always gets the most from his players, just like Kanga Kennedy did with his.

 

We have this 'elite thing', going on around the club, and this is the relentless 'open-window', to the selfish play that creeps around this club.

This is where the arrogance starts from and takes hold, because arrogance can be like a drug of addiction.

20 minutes ago, DV8 said:

We lack quality past leaders, 'who were winners of the competition'. Leading in the rooms after games. Not letting the current players get ahead of themselves.

 

We should outlaw backslapping our players from prior to Rnd 1.  No backslappers allowed around the club after games, win or lose.

Backslapping is great for overheated Ego's, and plenty of disappointments.

Lack or presence of past players can be a double edged sword.

Having the 80's premiership Hawks in your locker room would be great.

However, Malcolm Blight and Sam Newman fell out during the 80's and 90's when he targeted Sam and Mick Turner for supposedly continuing the culture of near enough is good enough at the club. Whether that is true is up for debate but it shows there is another side to the debate.

On the other hand, the Tigers of the 60's and 70's had the old guard from the depression years in their rooms and basically got sick of them going on about the 'good old days' to the point of just wanting to shut them up by creating some history of their own. 

The problem with our ex greats is that they came from an era that doesn't apply as well to the needs of today. Those blokes were greats of their time but they came from an era before the game went professional. A lot of them smoked, trained twice a week and were eating steaks before games. 

 

Like many others here, I think Mick is right. I don’t see this as a bad thing either, this is the time of the year that these articles need to land. We need to remember that we haven’t done anything yet and that nothing short of hard work and honest footy will get us where we need to go.

42 minutes ago, willmoy said:

Slap a media ban on themselves until the job's done

Even Northey's boys, ended up with this trait, which ended up being titled 'Hollywood Boulevard'.

 

Ever wonder how the teams that Balme'y had control of, under produced. 

Star-studded,,, but mentally weak teams. 

We had big names, who would star when it didn't count.  And after that period, that same attitude prevailed, even under the new incoming coach.

We got to finals, but never really were serious contenders; even in GrandFinals,  where we were just toyed with, in the serious stuff.

44 minutes ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

Lack or presence of past players can be a double edged sword.

Having the 80's premiership Hawks in your locker room would be great.

However, Malcolm Blight and Sam Newman fell out during the 80's and 90's when he targeted Sam and Mick Turner for supposedly continuing the culture of near enough is good enough at the club. Whether that is true is up for debate but it shows there is another side to the debate.

On the other hand, the Tigers of the 60's and 70's had the old guard from the depression years in their rooms and basically got sick of them going on about the 'good old days' to the point of just wanting to shut them up by creating some history of their own. 

The problem with our ex greats is that they came from an era that doesn't apply as well to the needs of today. Those blokes were greats of their time but they came from an era before the game went professional. A lot of them smoked, trained twice a week and were eating steaks before games. 

 

I'm referring more-so to the Hawks machine of many decades, & really the Swans as well, since Barassi went up there, with the likes of Paul Kelly, Lockett, Roos, Kirk, Goodes, Bolton, etc.

All leaders of their era in the AFL. All winners, all stars for the right reasons. All courage and guts. Never say die.

 

this is what we lack, to keep the arrogance & the pitfalls at bay.

 

Our stars all fell to the same pitfalls, and really did not get the chance to learn the ways of the really successful clubs.  So our stars cannot really advise as all fell to the soft footy ways within the club.

Gerard Healey did learn the wayz.

 

We do not have ONE Luke Hodge to call on, nor one Sam Mitchell, no Brett Kirks.

 

Ours have not measured up, since one Flower.